OMG this game is hard. Please help me..

[Iron Giant]

Ok, I know that there are people here who beat the game on Diety. If you are one of those people, I hate you . Actually, I need your help, so I take back my hatred....

Well seriously, I can play the game on Prince (yes, prince, don't laugh at me), but on Monarch the AI races are laughing at me and pointing by the time AD rolls around... Heck, even on Prince I can get smacked around pretty bad and usually end up coming in second..

I know this is a generic question and I have been reading every thread here I can find on the subject of strategy but I feel like I'm missing something basic.

Is this game supposed to be this hard on Monarch? Heck it almost feels unwinnable most of the time.

My Tactics (no laughing please):

1. I used to put most of my workers on automatic with only a couple that I use to make sure the most important things get done. Last night I kept all my workers on manual and seemed to do better. I do improvements only for enough squares that the city will actually use (plus one or two for growth) then move them on.

2. My workers are usually NOT cooperating. It dawned on me last night, wouldn't it be better to have 10 workers doing one thing than 10 workers doing 10 things?

3. I always build walls first, and (except the VERY early game) always garrison one spearman in every city. I typically build grainerys second, unless the city really can't use it (limited growth) in which case I build a temple.

4. I space my citys out about as much as the AI seems too. But isn't this a bit of a waste? A city would have to be pretty large to fill in the 2 hexes out from the center square. Leaving 2 hexes in each direction won't get used up until you have 25 population, which I almost NEVER have by the time the game ends and I lose. Maybe its best to keep citys together?

5. I used to handle the populations happiness manually. When I would have a city go into riot, I'd just doubleclick the middle of the city and an appropriate number of people would turn to prostitutes (whoops, I mean, "entertainers" lol). Do I need to micromanage my people in the citys more closely? Now I have been having the governers manage city happiness, but I don't tell them to maximize food or production, I just leave it at default.

6. Research: I generally ramp up and get the early stuff quick, then build a few citys and then ramp up again to get stuff later. I use the slider and I don't make specialists in my citys. Is that a mistake?

More questions later. Please help...... please....

[Theseus]

IG, don't build walls. Everything else is basically covered in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=58720

[jshelr]

1. Read about REX
2. Memorize these threads, quiz to follow http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=59216
3. On Monarch and higher, it often is necessary not to research yourself but to beat tech out of the AI civs and/or buy tech from the AI at much lower cost. At least by Emperor, there is an attitude adjustment necessary to fight a long uphill battle from behind.
4. Just keep plugging. Most of us took it on the chin at first as the game is, indeed, pretty hard.

[jshelr]

Damn, T is too fast for me. Anyway, great minds think alike, right.

[WarpStorm]

For 3, why are you building walls? Think about your answer.

For 4, I'd recommend packing them in a little closer. I'm not recommending full-blown ICS, just pack 'em a little tighter. After all, you aren't getting more than 12 worked tiles in a city till the middle of the Industrial age anyway.

For 5, watch your cities and adjust the turn before they go into riot. This can't always be done, but double check any city that is one turn away from growing. Using the governors always seems to manage for growth (even when that doesn't make sense). Manage this yourself, you'll probably get a lot more shields out of your ciites.

I don't see anything about playing to the strengths of you civ. Each one plays different. For example, Expansionistic civs (my new fav, don't laugh) know where all the good settlement spots are early and usually have a 4-5 tech lead in the early game.

In general, how you do in the Ancient Times sets the tone for the whole game.

[planetfall]

Yes this game is hard. Besides what the others have said you rarely want more than 3 workers on one task.

When you want more than 3 workers on one task-- in close race for GW and need to change tile properties quickly in city working on GW.

When you only want 1 worker on one task-- when fearful of losing only iron/coal and need to RR as many tiles as possible before lose resource and have to war or trade for it.

Generally 2..3 workers per task. {outside beginning of ancient era}. Look at the time to complete, often by ganging up workers you can complete a task in less than 1/2 time. With 3 you lose the time advantage, and after 4 you are wasting worker skills.

--PF

[Arrian]

On #5 - there are situations when it is better to use luxury spending instead of entertainers. If several of your largest, most productive cities need entertainers to keep from rioting, 10% luxuries is probably better because then those entertainers can go back to working the land, making those large, productive cities get larger and more productive.

Walls? I hardly ever build those. Sometimes I'll use them in border cities, if I'm militaristic (walls are like 10 shields for militaristic civs). Keep in mind that once a city crosses size 6, having walls becomes irrelevent.

On #4 - I buck the trend on city spacing. Most people here will tell you to pack your cities close together. I can't really argue with the logic behind that approach, but I hate it. Plus, my style of play (I intend to take over the world) lends itself to wider spacing.

#6 - Research. This depends on a number of factors, ranging from the amount of commerce your civ generates to who your neighbors are to luck. Some basic strats:

1) Great Library gambit: Beeline for literature, using low science rates to get there. Use the Pyramids as a shield holder for the GL (if not industrious, buy or trade for masonry). Once you have the GL, you will get a rush of tech. Set research to 0% and ride the GL to education while spending your money wisely. NOTE: this requirse a minimum of 2 neighbors, preferably more.

2) Psychotic Warmonger gambit: research bronze working, ironworking, the wheel, warrior code, and horseback riding. Nothing else really matters. Kill. Be sure to make use of upgrading (warriors to swordsmen, chariots to horsemen).

Have a plan regarding how and when you wish to trigger your civ's golden age. GA's are very powerful.

Know your civ's special traits. Use them. For instance, if you play a militaristic civ and you're not fighting... why are you playing a militaristic civ?

Another example:

A friend of mine was telling me about a game he was playing recently. He was complaining about War Weariness. He was playing a game out for score, see, and had himself a large, happy, prosperous democracy (created by millenia of vicious warmongering, of course). There were 2 AI civs left. One attacked him and the other joined in. This was pre-Tanks, post-infantry. Neither side could do much damage to the other. The turns rolled by and the enemy wouldn't speak to him. Eventually, he said his approval rating had dropped to 30% with 100% luxury spending.

I laughed at him and told him he was an idiot (he's one of my closest friends and a very good civ player, so that's ok). Why? Because he was playing Japan - A RELIGIOUS CIV! Why in the world, I asked, did he not just switch over to Monarchy once WW started to kick in? The only reason he was still playing the game was to boost his score, and happiness is score. WW = lower score. *boggle*

Again, know your civ. Sorry for the rambling, disjointed post.

-Arrian

[Iron Giant]

Thanks for the help(s):

Originally posted by WarpStorm
For 3, why are you building walls? Think about your answer.

I got real tired of having some enemy come up and take my entire city with one puny guy, or having the barbarian hordes pillage me. Am I overreacting? To tell you the truth, I don't know how to draft a unit... Is that a better solution than leaving one unit in each city? With walls and one spearman, my citys are pretty safe, but maybe its not worth the investment?

Originally posted by Someone
When you want more than 3 workers on one task-- in close race for GW and need to change tile properties quickly in city working on GW.

I tried this last night, planting forests then cutting them down. But I don't always get the "forest cleared, 10 shields added" message. I had so many workers in one square, that I could plant and cut down in one turn. Is that TOO many?

New question:

I pay to get access to other races, I even setup diplomacy between our races, but I still only see around 8 races in the Diplomacy screen? In my current game, the Greeks are RIGHT next to me. I have a road and setup an ambassador with them, but they don't show up in my list of other races to talk to?? I have to walk a unit into their territory and right click the unit to talk to the Greeks? That is the case for around 6 other races in this game too. What am I missing?

[Nosferum]

---First, I almost never build city walls. I only build walls in small cities (under size 7) where I suspect I will be attacked. I generally prefer to have a nice area of influence so that invaders are forced to walk into my territory and can't reach my city in a single turn. I then use a couter-attack to kill them so I am not forced to actually defend. If your cities are getting attacked before the end of the Ancient era, you're probably doing something wrong.

---I never automate any workers until almost all of the roads and mines are done. I usually automate most (not all) shortly before I get railroads. I am very picky about where my roads go and you generally DON'T want much to be irrigated at first. The AI loves irrigation.

---I usually have each worker by itself, but might stack two at a time to make it go faster.

---I also don't build granaries. At first, all I ever build are Settlers and defenders of some sort. I use what is called the REX method, where I make a massive land grab. If I have any opposition anywhere near me, I have each city build archers and Settlers, and only one or two making Spearmen. Once I get about 10-12 Archers I am probably already making Swordsmen. I take my Archers and should be able to destroy at least two enemy cities before I can send Swordsman reinforcements. This sort of "rush" is only necessary at levels above Regent.

---I'm pick about city placement. I make as good ouse of the 21-square farmable area as I can, with the occasional exception. It's bascially a "fat X" around each city that's two squares out in radius (5 squares across). Once I get railroads, it starts to look like a Borg civilization where most cities are pretty much the same distance and relatively linear. I make exceptions, though, in that I biuld by fourth or fifth city close to any luxuries I find. They are often far away, so I make roads to them and build cities along the path to ensure the road is safe. In the end, I like cities in a circlular fashion around my capitol. That is rarely possible, so I usually have a more centralized city building a new Palace eventually.

[Nosferum]

---I've almost always found a single spearman able to defend any city against a standard Barbarian. On the easier levels (when I don't have to make an aggressive rush early) I have one city build a barracks kind of early and plop out Veteran Spearman and replace the Regular Spearman in each city.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Iron Giant
I tried this last night, planting forests then cutting them down. But I don't always get the "forest cleared, 10 shields added" message. I had so many workers in one square, that I could plant and cut down in one turn. Is that TOO many?

It only works the first time. So there's no idea of replanting the forest.

New question:

I pay to get access to other races, I even setup diplomacy between our races, but I still only see around 8 races in the Diplomacy screen? In my current game, the Greeks are RIGHT next to me. I have a road and setup an ambassador with them, but they don't show up in my list of other races to talk to?? I have to walk a unit into their territory and right click the unit to talk to the Greeks? That is the case for around 6 other races in this game too. What am I missing?

Shift-Right click on one of the leader faces, and you get to change which Civ you want to talk to.

[Hurricane]

I think one mistake, IG, is that you let your cities grow too much. You should be building settlers instead of walls, granaries and spearmen. Your goal is to make sure no city grows to a size where unhappiness kicks in (this will naturally vary according to difficulty level and number of luxuries).

The second mistake is probably that you defend your cities in Civ2 style. The only reason to defend a city deep within your borders is for the happiness effect. And for that warriors are good enough. Concentrate on building offensive units instead.

[vmxa1]

I am a size 19 player, I want the (near) max number of working squares. I want the culture to expand out to that size and overlap enough to leave no holes for the AI to build into. I will attach a bmp that shows all of the city sizes and how to make them. I got this of the forum some time ago an do not know who to credit.

I should mention the best way to view it is to use paint and set the size up and then turn on the grid. You can then see where to put a settler to form the next city for the given size you want.

[Nosferum]

---Whatever it's worth, you should find that you can leave extra squares (sometimes a ten or twelve block) in the middle of your empire, and the enemy will rarely traverse in to get to it. Namely, you'll find your influence will grow into it. I was playing on a Large map and uprooted a city that couldn't grow beyond size 2 that was nestled into a HUGE area of mountains. I originally built it to immediately take advantage of some Gems, but once the game progressed a bit, I uprooted 9leaving about 8 unused squares) and my influence filled the gap.

---I also once had an even larger area of moutains and hills which I could never envelop with my culture. There were still about 7 squares of gap where my culture didn't reach. No one dared to venture in, though. =)

[planetfall]

Originally posted by Iron Giant
Thanks for the help(s):

I tried this last night, planting forests then cutting them down. But I don't always get the "forest cleared, 10 shields added" message. I had so many workers in one square, that I could plant and cut down in one turn. Is that TOO many?

1. You don't get any shields if working on GW/SW.

2. Even if could clear and plant forest in one turn you are paying maintenance on 10 workers. Where is the NET gain? However, 10 workers adding mines, adds 1/tile/remaining turns in game. Great net return.

-- PF

[WarpStorm]

Slave labor is free.

[Keeper of Hell]

Originally posted by Iron Giant
I got real tired of having some enemy come up and take my entire city with one puny guy, or having the barbarian hordes pillage me. Am I overreacting? To tell you the truth, I don't know how to draft a unit... Is that a better solution than leaving one unit in each city? With walls and one spearman, my citys are pretty safe, but maybe its not worth the investment?

The draft option does not become available until you research Nationalism. Therefore, it's really not a big part of anyone's Ancient Times strat. About the walls: they help a bit, but not too much. As others have said, putting plenty of defenders in your border cities is really all you need to do, especially if your civ is well-linked by roads. When you get to RRs defensive planning ceases to be a problem except in cases of surprise attacks, especially RoP violations.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Keeper of Hell
especially RoP violations.

One way to counter this is not bother with RoP unless you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAALLLY need it.

I never do... really. I consider any enemy units that enters my boarders an act of war and treat it as such.

[Keeper of Hell]

Originally posted by Thrawn05


One way to counter this is not bother with RoP unless you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAALLLY need it.

I never do... really. I consider any enemy units that enters my boarders an act of war and treat it as such.

The memorable occasion that converted me to your way of thinking was an incident in which Russia used my rails to raze Berlin. Quite infuriating... though fortunate that Catherine wasn't smart enough to move Cossacks next to all my undefended cities and get them. I paid through the nose and pulled together a five-nation coalition to take care of Russia and ended up personally annexing about half their empire with my Panzers. The lesson though, has stuck: I now only make RoPs if *I* need them to get through a civ's territory or if I get a deal that I just can't resist (if you're in a superior military position, the AI is sometimes willing to pay you handsomely for an RoP, rather than just marching through as if your civ is just an extension of their own).

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by Keeper of Hell


The memorable occasion that converted me to your way of thinking was an incident in which Russia used my rails to raze Berlin. Quite infuriating... though fortunate that Catherine wasn't smart enough to move Cossacks next to all my undefended cities and get them. I paid through the nose and pulled together a five-nation coalition to take care of Russia and ended up personally annexing about half their empire with my Panzers. The lesson though, has stuck: I now only make RoPs if *I* need them to get through a civ's territory or if I get a deal that I just can't resist (if you're in a superior military position, the AI is sometimes willing to pay you handsomely for an RoP, rather than just marching through as if your civ is just an extension of their own).

I devised a "One way RoP pack". What you do is get a bunch of cheap units and line them accross the boarder to civ that you signed the RoP. This prevents settlers and workers from going into your country, and gives you a first line of defense from an attack.

[Kingof the Apes]

Originally posted by Iron Giant
Thanks for the help(s):



I got real tired of having some enemy come up and take my entire city with one puny guy, or having the barbarian hordes pillage me. Am I overreacting? To tell you the truth, I don't know how to draft a unit... Is that a better solution than leaving one unit in each city? With walls and one spearman, my citys are pretty safe, but maybe its not worth the investment?

I usually have at least 2 defenders in each city, sometimes more on border cities. never build walls, instead build a spearman.
once you get nationalism, only draft if you absolutely *have* to, as it reduces you population and causes unhappiness.

[YC4B4U]

You may be finding the game more difficult than other players because you may be playing with more opponents on the smaller maps, or you could be playing with less land.

I found that when I was learning the game it was harder with more opponents and less land. Once I learnt the finer points of the game I could move onto more interesting game setups.

IMO

1. Automate workers in the second half of the game. The first half is too important to leave to chance.
2. I only have stacked workers for pollution.
3. Walls = waste of shields.
4. Spacing is good but depends on the map (corruption).
5. Automate happiness (it saves so much time).
6. Go for the great library on minimum research - that way you get the techs and also money to spend spend spend.

Good luck.

[vmxa1]

Conscripts get 2 HP, not much use, except in dire situations.

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Thrawn05
I devised a "One way RoP pack". What you do is get a bunch of cheap units and line them accross the boarder to civ that you signed the RoP. This prevents settlers and workers from going into your country, and gives you a first line of defense from an attack.

In one memorable game I did this too. I had a natural choke point where I only needed 2 tiles with units to block it off. The Aztec bastards actually used helicopters and paratroopers to get by the roadblock.

[WarpStorm]

I don't automate happiness. Sure, it saves time, at a cost of about 25% of your productivity. The governor is an idiot. He's always trying to increase food (it doesn't matter if you tell him to emphasize production) and doesn't understand the concept of WLTKD and it's benefits.

[vondrack]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I don't automate happiness. Sure, it saves time, at a cost of about 25% of your productivity. The governor is an idiot. He's always trying to increase food (it doesn't matter if you tell him to emphasize production) and doesn't understand the concept of WLTKD and it's benefits.

My words. Especially the fact that I can't tell him to maintain WLTKD makes me to have him (the governor) switched off all the time. I feel so sorry for the poor AIs... apparently, they have no choice but to use these *beeeep* governors...

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by WarpStorm


In one memorable game I did this too. I had a natural choke point where I only needed 2 tiles with units to block it off. The Aztec bastards actually used helicopters and paratroopers to get by the roadblock.

Sometimes, having a roadblock of 2 - 5 layers help.

[Thrawn05]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
I don't automate happiness. Sure, it saves time, at a cost of about 25% of your productivity. The governor is an idiot. He's always trying to increase food (it doesn't matter if you tell him to emphasize production) and doesn't understand the concept of WLTKD and it's benefits.

I general don't automate until industrial age... at that point I automate food production, since more food 99% of the time means more people which means eventualy means more shields.

That, and have 10 cities at a time under pollution, after the clean up is a pain to return the people to that tile... so I let the governer do it.

[Moonsinger]

I don't automate anything until pollution start popping up in every turn. Frankly, I'm really sick of pollution; in my next game, I will build cities as close as possible and try to keep them at size 12 max.

[vmxa1]

Plus once your city gets to around 20 or so I would like it to stop going, so I do not want anymore irregation or workers on tiles making more food.