BG2- Evil Whiners.

[SnowFire]

Alrighty folks, I'm still stuck in WC3, so I've been borrowing BG2 from my roommate. Quite a bit better than BG1 so far, now that you actually have options. Although I should really be finishing those Dip moves now, but oh well.

Here's the question though. When your Reputation was such that your party members got annoyed in BG1, your characters could not stop harping on it if their lives depended on it. I mean, ignore for a moment that Jaherira should by all rights be NG not N (and would be in 3rd edition), but if your reputation was too high, she would whine and whine and whine and AHHHHHHHHHHHH until you finally went out and stole something to knock your rep down so she'd be happy. Is this still true in BG2? I will say as a side comment the greater inter-party talking as is is much appreciated.

Why do I bring this up? Because I'm still at the rough beginning of Chapter 2 (finding all the neat quests you can do and exploring Athkalta), and I need to decide on what my party is going to be. I thought of including Viconia for an interesting difference, as her stats seemed pretty good (when I tried letting her in- she's saved and at the graveyard if I ever want her), plus there's the romance potential. But it's not worth it if she's going to complain the whole time. Then there's Jaheria, who is not the most tremendously useful character, but if I can Viconia, it seems like she'd be my best choice for a romance.

As it stands, my party is
Me (Kensai, possible dual to Mage later depending on how party turns out. Kensai sounded too neat from the description. I'm using Squall as the name, and imported some cropped up Squall pics from FF8 I made. Plus, that way I had a good excuse for his 7 Charisma, as well as exceptional everything else).
Yoshino (Yes, I've had the game slightly spoiled for me and know he isn't entirely permeneant, but a certain familiar replacement comes in shortly after he leaves...)
Nalia (I need a mage, and she seems nice enough)
Minsc (Because BG would be unbearable without his comments. Plus he's good).
-as well as Amonen & Jaheira. The first 4 are pretty well set in stone. I might switch up A & J for others depending on how y'all respond... with Keldorn & Viconia being the most likely possible replacers, but who knows?

Now, I suppose I could just play around with Shadowkeeper (linked in the previous thread), changing party members and reputations, but that could get annoying, and it's hard to do long times to see how often the complaints occur.

Anybody willing to help on this?

[Footie Mad]

Dump Nalia please, she is the worst npc in the game as far as im concerned. And dont dual to mage because it will be all to powerful but if that's the way you want to play your game why not.

[dannyevilcat]

You haven't included my favorite character, Edwin.

I haven't played BG2 in a year now. I miss it terribly.

[loinburger]

Replace Nalia with Edwin when you get the chance (18 Int is sooo important for a mage), and by all means let Viconia in to replace Jaheira. I haven't had troubles with my group complaining too much, and besides, if they complain then just click out of their dialogue.

[SnowFire]

Eh, Edwin was somewhat amusing in BG1 I suppose, but... nah. And how important can 18 Int be? It means you've got an 85% chance to learn spells instead of 75%. If I'm feeling cheap, I can just reload, and if not, just buy a new scroll. I suppose that Maze is more effective against 17 Int characters, but that's not so important... and oh yes, since Nalia was a thief her first few levels, she should have more HP than Edwin, right? Unless Edwin has 16 Con. I forget, being that I played with him for about 5 minutes in BG1.

And loinburger, dialogue isn't the problem; I like it when people talk. I'm talking about the little white outline and the character randomly spouts something, which is generally enjoyable ("A den of stinking evil! Cover your nose, Boo!") but in BG1 was the "annoyed party member" thing ("I don't like the direction this group is taking..."). And happened all the time if your rep wasn't right.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, it seems that mixing in Viconia won't be too much trouble. Although further comments are welcome.

[loinburger]

And happened all the time if your rep wasn't right.

Ah, gotcha. That wasn't much of a problem for me in BG2, despite the fact that I had a pretty wide mix of alignments in my party. (Viconia, Edwin, Minsc, etc.)

The big thing about 18 Int is that the character can cast 8th and 9th level spells, which you can't do with 16 Int. (Much less critical in 3rd ed. rules, but in 2nd ed. the only "easy" way to increase Int is to Wish your stats up AFAIK.) You can also put many more spells in your spellbook for each spell level. (A friend if mine kept Nalia, but accidentally filled her lower level spell repertoire, preventing her from ever learning Fireball.) It's mostly a question of whether you want a powerhouse mage (in which case Edwin is the way to go) or somebody who can do some magery who doesn't just do magery (in which case Nalia is the better choice). It is also difficult to keep Edwin alive early on, while you won't need to coddle Nalia so much.

[Footie Mad]

Don't forget Edwins amulet which if I recall correctly enables him to cast more spells than a usual mage. I highly recommend going with an evil party, there are simply no counterparts of npcs like Korgan and Viconia on the good alignment side. Another plus is you dont have to listen to self righteous blabbering.

[loinburger]

I actually prefer Minsc to Korgan, he might not be as badass but he's much more versatile, not to mention fun to have around.

[Footie Mad]

Well, after hearing his comments about Boo for the hundreth time enough is enough. Besides Korgan armed with dual axes serves his tank-purpose better than Minsc ever did and you get a much better character in you group as well.

[Chowlett]

So, am I totally insane in running with a party of:

Me, a Fighter (just a standard fighter)
Minsc
Anomen (recently become Sir Anomen)
Yoshimo (presumably to be replaced when his time comes - I too have had a slight spoiler)
Jaheira
Aerie

I am, incidentally, trying to pursue the love interest with Aerie, who while quite drippy, is at least not a nag like Jaheira. Plus, I reckon her picture looks nicer.

[Standup]

I've just started again with the Darkest Day mod and picked up Kergan (or is it Korgan - one of them is in BG and the other Highlander) and he is certainly abusive to everyone in the party but then thats what chaotic evil is all about. Don;t think he's in the orginal BG2 but i am loosing track.
Jaheira just whines and nags too much to keep her in the party.

[vonManstein]

Go here: http://members.rogers.com/mrkevvy/tweaksandcheats.html

And get either Sir Kalthorine Ut Wistan's Evil Override Dialogs or Sir Kalthorine Ut Wistan's Happy Group Scripts (depending on how happy you want your group) and install them. Voila.

[vonManstein]

Errr.. I meant, Viola, no more complaining members or problems with alignment.

[Traianvs]

wow snowfire... kensai/mage is considered pretty cheap , you could try to finish the game solo with a kensai/mage but you like dialogue so... don't dual to kensai, many ppl are diappointed because some fights that are supposed to be very tough get too easy!

the best characters are indeed evil, which is quite normal because evil characters have disadvantages such as higher prices in shops and more hostile npc reactions and so on... in the ToB there is one additional evil NPC which is truly incredibly powerful (it's an old 'friend', hehehe) so if you have the ToB you could try evil...

Anomen is really powerful when he gets to cast high level priest spells while at the same time he's strong and can wield powerful weapons... too bad he's an anoying fatass though... i would replace jaheira with haer'dhalis (bards are awesome!) and keep anomen if you can handle his arrogant yelling

in any case you have to keep minsc so he can wield lilarcor, which is a wonderful combination


PS: chowlett, no you're not insane, the game can be finished with any combination, it's just different tactics you have to use... but if i were you i wouldn't pick a fighter as PC.. imho take a ranger (perhaps an archer, but like a kensai/mage an archer can get pretty overpowered if he has 18 dexterity), a ranger can dual wield with 3 ability points(i gave him drizzt's scimitars (and i'm good aligned, muhaha)) and can go invisible, pretty handy in most situations... you can't memorize tons of invisibility spells if you want to scout, it also allows special tactics or cheesy tactics (equip a bow, go invis and attack, shoot a few arrows and run away (preferably with boots of speed or haste), when out of line of sight of your enemy go invis again and repeat until your enemy is dead , be careful for confusion and spells like that, they follow you no matter where you go) and you can have a personal enemy, you will get good bonuses against the creature... i recommend vampires as you will meet a lot of them, or demons

[Chowlett]

Hmm, maybe I'll swap to Haer'Dalis. Jaheira is getting on my nerves a bit. You'll have to forgive me - I acquired BG2 erm, without manual , so remind what the basic stats of a Bard are. I'm just finding it quite useful to have a character who can cast both mage and priest spells, and I'm told she gets some pretty kick-ass summonings in later game. Hey, I just hit level 11 and discovered the joys of an instant-cast, instant-control fire elemental.

One other thing - can priests learn new spells? The only scrolls I've come across (with the exception of various protections) are only readable by my Mage.

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Chowlett
One other thing - can priests learn new spells? The only scrolls I've come across (with the exception of various protections) are only readable by my Mage.

IIRC, priests automatically learn new spells when they advance a level. They never learn new spells off of scrolls, since they don't have spell books.

[Traianvs]

well, they have a spellbook but you just can't add any spells from scrolls

if you want to know more about classes start new game, and check the classes, there's some info on their abilities

you can go to www.bgchronicles.com as well, i think there's info on it.. haven't checked though

[Chowlett]

I might swap Jaheira for Haer'Dalis just for a trial anyway. The constant bickering between her and Aerie (who I've just, indirectly, declared my love for it would seem) is getting annoying. It's just a shame to lose another magic-user, particularly one who just got a no-strings-attached summon Fire Elemental spell...

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Trajanus
well, they have a spellbook but you just can't add any spells from scrolls

They haven't got one in the usual sense. Mages need a spellbook to memorize their spells, while clerics don't need to carry one around--they get their daily spells regardless, as long as they sleep/meditate/whatever.

[Chowlett]

They haven't got one in the usual sense. Mages need a spellbook to memorize their spells, while clerics don't need to carry one around--they get their daily spells regardless, as long as they sleep/meditate/whatever.

Actually, no. They have a "priest scroll" instead of a mage book. This, like the mage book, contains all the priest spells they could potentially memorise and, like the mage, they choose which set they want to memorise each time they sleep. Identical, in fact, except that they don't seem to add spells in the same way as mages.

[loinburger]

Really? I'd thought that clerics spontaneously cast their spells like sorcerers. (I guess it kinda shows that I never play as a cleric.)

[SnowFire]

This is where it helps to know D&D. Yes, they have a priest scroll Chowlett, but that's strictly a convenience so you memorize things with the same interface as a mage and don't get confused. Remember, what are priests? They're servants of a God. You don't "research" new prayers. You simply get them granted. So priests have no spellbooks, they merely pray for such-and-such spells. The use of a scroll is misleading, there is no need. And that's why you don't need to "learn" priest spells either, they're just granted.

That said, loinburger is wrong- while it would make perfect sense for them to be able to cast spontaneously a la Sorceror, in 1st edition D&D they were made to cast the same way as a mage because... erm, 'cause they were silly and stupid. Also for balance I suppose, being that clerics might be "too good" otherwise. So thus that's the same way they cast.

Anyway, I am using Viconia, and things are working out. It's too bad, I'd like to can Anomen for Keldorn, but I really need the double-healy things... I suppose I could swap in Keldorn and just rest a lot more often, but that'd feel cheap.

[Chowlett]

Well, I swapped in Haer'Dalis, and was plesently surprised to find that bards are able to use mage spells. Which is nice.

The only problem is - he's started flirting with Aerie! *grumble*. He keeps calling her "his dove", and she's responding, dammit. I don't mind being told - if I want to fix up with Aerie, am I going to have to drop him? And in case I do, whereabouts in Athkala is the group of Harpers that Jaheira went to?

[loinburger]

Originally posted by Chowlett
Well, I swapped in Haer'Dalis, and was plesently surprised to find that bards are able to use mage spells. Which is nice.

His Lore skill will also be useful for identifying items for free.

[Sandman]

I created a swashbuckler that actually used bucklers, but gave up after I realised that there are no decent bucklers in the game. What a pest.

But now I'm playing as a dual-mace wielding barbarian, inspired by a minor character from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. He seems pretty solid so far.

[Chowlett]

Yes, I'd forgotten that. About 1.5 times that of his nearest rival, Aerie, and he's only levelled up once...

[Traianvs]

The harper building can eb found in the docks district in the southeast womewhat, big building, a cool quest can be done there too, you'll see a few BG1 characters again, pretty funny


bah you just don't use bucklers even if you have a swashbuckler , shields are for sissies anyway, it's better to have two handed weapons or dual wield, on only a few cases shields are very handy (against beholders there is a special behloderray shiled that deflects their deadly rays!!!)

shields as a whole aren't very useful i found... it's also very annoying when ya wanna switch to bow or crossbow... you'd have to use sling, or darts, or throwing axes, but those weapons are weak..

[Chowlett]

But does Haer'Dalis pose a threat to my courtship of Aerie?

[Sandman]

bah you just don't use bucklers even if you have a swashbuckler , shields are for sissies anyway, it's better to have two handed weapons or dual wield, on only a few cases shields are very handy (against beholders there is a special behloderray shiled that deflects their deadly rays!!!)

I completed the game with a dual-wielding Undead Hunter, so I wanted something a bit more difficult.
He's got full shield skill, combined high dexterity and swashing bonuses this makes him extremely difficult to hit with missiles. Which is nice.

shields as a whole aren't very useful i found... it's also very annoying when ya wanna switch to bow or crossbow... you'd have to use sling, or darts, or throwing axes, but those weapons are weak..

I find darts to be great. Switching is also a pain when dual-wielding.

[Traianvs]

yea, true , of course

darts are quite puny, because they don't do big chunks of damage, okay it has a high fire rate, but even still, with my archer i could dish out 4 times as much damage with improved speed, and of course there are some nice arrows such as ice arrows (there are more fire protected creatures... so fire arrows are just a bit lesser)