Tell me who was the greatest civ2scn creator ever... - Page 2

Kull · September 23, 2002, 23:56

The Best EVER? Tough call! It's like asking who's the world's best author EVER. Unless you make some effort to categorize, the question is almost meaningless.

I will say that several people on that list were and are truly special:

Capt Nemo: Breathed new life into WWII scenarios - and we're talking about THE most "scenario'd" era of all. I will never forget the first time playing Red Front - already impressed by the beauty and cohesiveness of the art, my breath was literally taken away when winter arrived and everything....changed!

Alex Mor: Spartacus was the pioneer "Serial Adventure" format scenario. LOTS of people played this and said to themselves, "Wow - imagine what else you can do with these ideas!" And the scenario world is much richer for it. P.S. MikeJ is right - there's no way you lump him together with Nemo!

Jesus Balsinde: Just a large body of solid, often inspired, work. You might think he'd be limited by the "Spanish-focus", but his scenarios cover all eras and many formats. My personal favorites are "Celts & Iberians" and "Alba", but really - he's got something for every taste.

Allard: Did some fine work in the "good old days", but was almost forgotten (other than that "minor "contribution - The Guide to Hex Editing)

until he burst back on the scene with the beautifully constructed "River War".

Harlan Thompson: For me, this guy will always be the original scenario God. When you consider the sheer breadth of his focus - that alone separates him from most on this list (and off). Think about it. Vikings, Mongols, Lord of the Rings, WW2 Europe, WW2 Pacific.....not just eclectic but excellent too. Plus he helped develop one of the best Scenario Building guides around. Back in the day, it was my Bible!

And there are so many more that deserve mention for their work: Temba's "Underdark" is ancient, yet it's STILL played regularly and commented upon. Likewise with Tecumseh's "Prince of Darkness" plus he's one of the few that moved his focus to ToT and almost singlehandedly revitalized that almost forgotten platform. Jeszenka produced some fine WWII pieces, and then blew away everyone's preconceptions with the classic "Sword of Shannara" (still a "must play"). Stefan may be "all Persia, all the time" but man they put you IN that era! Until FF's recent LoTR scenarios, Bebro stood alone when it came to the release of gorgeous scenarios - his art work is flat out luscious - and the scenarios taste good too! Am I omitting others? OF COURSE! That's the point.

Who can possibly decide?

Not me...I ain't votin'!

ravagon · September 24, 2002, 01:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Kull
Who can possibly decide?

Not me...I ain't votin'!

I'm not either.

Kull, I agree with absolutely everthing you just said.

An abundance of riches.

Heresson · September 24, 2002, 06:32

Quote:

Who can possibly decide?

Not me...I ain't votin'!

Then begone!

Heresson · September 24, 2002, 06:40

23 peeople already decided. Stop hesitating You cowards!

Chris 62 · September 24, 2002, 17:08

The poll is flawed because of the ommissions, but I wouldn't vote any way, and here's why.

Playing a scenario for me is a matter of mood, as to the subject matter.

For example, I might be in the mood for something on the dawn of man, and so I would have to play "Anceint empires".
The next time I might be reading about the great powers and want to play "1870" (and Exile is another guy not listed, BTW).
Then I might want to get into a sci-fi scenario, and play one of the excellent Kobayshi scenarios.
Then I'll be reading something about the age of exploration, and I might want to pull out Alba By Jay Bee...

I think your getting the idea, I can never say I have a "Favorite" designer.
I could list dozens of scenarios from so many designers, there is no way I could pick one, nothing "cowardly" about that, the only thing I will say Heresson is I can't seem to recall a single scenario you made.

Heresson · September 24, 2002, 17:21

I understand, which doesn't mean that You can't
vote according to your current mood

Quote:

the only thing I will say Heresson is I can't seem to recall a single scenario you made.

And vice versa, but what does it have to do with the subject?

Chris 62 · September 24, 2002, 18:54

Well, I never made one, but you can find my name on over a dozen scenarios, from many of the dudes on the list, yet another reason I wouldn't pick one over another.

As for the best, if you really want to get technical, it's Mic Uhl, the guy that made all those scenarios for "Conflicts' and "Fantastic worlds", who showed everybody the way it's done.

(Mic is an old name in the board wargamers world, a guy who's work dates back to the 1970s, yet gets NO credit from our little scenario world at all).

Heresson · September 24, 2002, 19:29

Mic Uhl
I must admit that I don't know Him.
Why isn't He active here - or anywhere?
What exactly do You value him for?
(oh, the question may seem silly for You, but it's ages since
I last looked on CiC/FW scenarios...)

I know some of those people too (

)
but I don't think they would be angry with me for saying that I like one's work more than another's. There's so many other things to be angry with me...

I've made some scenarios; three are on the net. One is very weak, two are about good I think. Fourth is on its way, but as I'm leaving for a year again, I doubt I'll be able to finish it until I'll get my own computer, which may take time.

Why don't You try making a scenario? As You have experience needed, and contacts, probably You'd make a good one...
Make one!

Kull · September 24, 2002, 19:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris 62
As for the best, if you really want to get technical, it's Mic Uhl, the guy that made all those scenarios for "Conflicts' and "Fantastic worlds", who showed everybody the way it's done.

(Mic is an old name in the board wargamers world, a guy who's work dates back to the 1970s, yet gets NO credit from our little scenario world at all).

Well there's a provocative statement! I'll bet that could serve as a rather juicy thread topic all by itself!

"Does Mic Uhl get the credit he deserves....."

(more importantly)

"......and if not, why not?"

St Leo · September 24, 2002, 19:58

The FW manual listed him next to descriptions of all the scenarios that he had made.

I guess it's because of the bundled scenarios being easily overshadowed by the stuff available on the Net (though not by Microprose's Bestonet o_0). Mick's stuff is only impressive when compared with Rome and WW2.

We must not forget that Mick had a say in what was being added in the expansion packs; the event language was custom-tailored to his needs. His scenarios also benefitted from having a staff of artists.

Case · September 24, 2002, 20:15

I think that the guy(s) who made the wwii scn that came with Civ2 is/are the most influentual scenario maker(s) of all time.

St Leo · September 24, 2002, 21:13

Yes, they showed us the power of what one could do by hacking the civ2 executable to optimise the AI.

Chris 62 · September 24, 2002, 22:25

See?

Got you guys thinking about someone you never considered.

The guy was FIRST, the ground breaker, sure the staff artisits drew the units, how many scenarios use units and terrain EXCLUSIVE to that scenario anymore?
Very few indeed.

That's the trouble with "best lists", I mysealf forgot Carl Fritz, and I love several of his scenarios.

Also, the older stuff looks bad compared with the new stuff, which is why several scenarios got "face lifts" from a few people.

As for me making one, I just never have the time, despite being given extensive scenario knowledge from people like Exile, Jay Bee, John Ellis, and Kobayshi among others.

I still say I can never pick a best, and probaly never will.

MagyarCrusader · September 24, 2002, 22:31

I don't think Mic Uhl was the first to create a scenario. Way back in the day of the original civilization, I made a psuedo scenario with hotseat, building up civilizations in North and South America, and then pitting them against each other. I'm sure there were others with the same idea.

Heresson · September 25, 2002, 03:56

So YOU were the first one

Th0mas · September 25, 2002, 11:00

Captain Nemo and Alex Mohr with out a doubt...

....and I'll fight any of you who says otherwise!

DarkCloud · September 25, 2002, 12:44

MikeMcCart did a lot of volume work in the old days

But Jesczenka will get my vote for his amazingly detailed historical recreations!

Heresson · September 25, 2002, 13:26

Thank You for voting. And thanks for voting for someone other than one of the leading people; I was afraid that
people will concentrate on fight between mr thompson and mr Nemo and won't notice the rest.

DarkCloud · September 25, 2002, 21:43

Well, sadly I've only played one Harlan scenario- and I can't remember what it was- as for Nemo- his Red Front scenario may be good, but like Cam Hill's Gangster's scenario- i never downloaded it because I have a too slow connection to the net

Oh well

Hendrik the Great · September 28, 2002, 09:40

Maybe you should have used my internet name and not my real name in the poll Maciej...most people only know me by Hendrik the Great and not as Mathias...

And I am honoured to be in that list! I've been away from Apolyton so long I often never find out about things that are talked about here.

Heresson · September 28, 2002, 10:08

Oh I guess You are right... bad me again.
Well, we all hope You'll be back...

Alexandr · September 28, 2002, 19:59

These designers are the most talented, I think:
= Alex Mor (the Magnificient) - for his "Spartacus";
= Masis Panos - for "Age of Constantine", "Age of Justinian", "Age of Alexius";
= Insurgent - for "The Wars of Israel";
= Paul Cullivan - for "The Odyssey";
and, may be, Techumseh - for "Congo!"

Heresson · October 7, 2002, 09:17

vote!

Choke · October 8, 2002, 03:45

Captain Nemo is certainly the best scenario creator ever, however I find it hard to play any other scenarios now that I've played Red Front, everything else pales in comparison as far as 20th century scenarios go. So while he's the best I hold a rather low opinion of him for making so few scenarios. It's like eating manure for several years, then for a week eating only the finest gourmet dishes and finally being told the chef has retired and you must again eat manure, ridiculous.

kobayashi · October 8, 2002, 08:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Choke
.....It's like eating manure for several years, then for a week eating only the finest gourmet dishes and finally being told the chef has retired and you must again eat manure, ridiculous.

I think Nemo's great, even greater than great, but I find this rather insulting to everyoneelse - including me.

Cyrion · October 8, 2002, 08:56

I must agree with Kobi!

And I am fully allowed to: as I haven't designed any scenario (yet ??), it's not because I take it too personally...

our_man · October 8, 2002, 09:07

The metaphor Choke uses is a bit extreme Kobi; manure is a poor choice of word on his part, but I don't think he means to be so disparaging. If he does mean it

, he's clearly missed out on a lot of incredible works, ST: DW being one of them.

Choke · October 8, 2002, 13:45

Notice I say TWENTIETH CENTURY scenarios, NOT other scenarios. I mean scenarios based on WW 1, 2, Cold War, etc.

our_man · October 8, 2002, 16:13

Well in that case Choke, you're still way off the mark. Have you ever tried (to name but a few of my favourites)

Crises Of The New World Order
The Cruel Sea
Second Reich
Up The Deadly Boot

To say that these brilliant works are 'manure' is indeed offensive, and frankly, I'd like to see you do better.

kobayashi · October 9, 2002, 02:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Choke
Notice I say TWENTIETH CENTURY scenarios, NOT other scenarios. I mean scenarios based on WW 1, 2, Cold War, etc.

I made a WW2 scenario (which had 8 PBEMs going on at the same time at one stage) so I am STILL offended