Nicosar's Master Challenge

Nicosar · September 23, 2002, 09:22

I welcome all. Greetings from The Gameplayer.

I began playing civilization many years ago, off and on as the interest waned and rose again, leaving it for the latest thing yet always, inevitably, coming back to the game that allowed for the most freedom and consuming gameplay, and I began slowly, but surely, realizing that civ is not a game unto itself, but it is just a version of a specific type of simulator, more of a concept than a game, if you will, that emulates reality. The game is of course, skin deep, in practically all the almost infinite aspects of humanity that it does cover, which is only a limited set of them really, but it is the only game that successfully combines as many of these as the developers of these days could comprehend and pack into one program without completely ignoring the fact that it must be playable, and making it work and make sense, to a certain degree, provided one doesn't snicker about details or inspect it TOO closely, but most importantly of all, providing the player with no pre-ordained level to play on or a rigid set of boundaries but just a huge environment and freedom to do as the player wishes. It is this reason that makes this the best game today. That is, if one defines a game not as some flashy-looking rat maze where mindless shooting is the most intriguing factor but as an intense simulation which is so flexible it gives back only what the player puts into it in terms of creativity and originality of thought.

All of this variety, though, quickly fades against an opponent that maintains no atmosphere of puzzling subversion and fierce retaliation to keep you alert and focused as if your life depended on it, since such a player, such as the AI, becomes predictable all too quick and victory becomes a formula, not a triumph of the reactive mind. Then, when most people like me who had analyzed the game for what it really was but started to feel that it was just a meager version of it, its creators redeemed themselves by releasing another, superior version of the game that allowed for customizable freedom, and finally a chance to have battles against other types of opponents: intelligent ones.

Suddenly interest was again sparked like a wildfire, the old predictability of the game thawing from a stiff and unmoldable block of ice into a swirling chaos of steam, always moving, always changing; the players having to actually strain their minds to keep up in games against even a multiple set of human minds which never allowed them a moment's rest if they were to be able to counteract deadly maneouvers in time. All the old rules of how to win were burned into ashes by this new fire that existed only inbetween humans in favor of a constantly evolving environment. It is in the multiplayer aspect, then, of this game which is truly the only thing that makes it worthwhile as a game of strategy, the standard game against the computer seeming only as an initiation to learn the game's rules and basic concepts in comparison.

It is with this thought constantly in mind that this gameplayer has kept playing this 'human strategy simulator' throughout the years in many various forms, some clearly superior in the mobility of tactics they allowed then others which would stifle the player for the sake of the uniqueness of the scenario, to eventually come up with the richest version of the game possible.

In this custom version, all the units and rules and some sciences have been slightly altered, all the myriad of small and subtle changes amassing in their importance to make the game truly a master's version, embodying all the solid concepts of civ carefully refined and many more which add to the game immensely and raise it to terribly exciting new levels of deep and fulfilling strategy!This gameboard includes a 32,696 sq. GIGA map designed to resemble realistic terrain in all it's jagged and wild randomness and unpredictability, 13 new units ranging throughout all the ages but weighing more heavily in the modern era, though at a sacrifice of two rather expandable units, 10 new sciences and the general changes made to the game in all fields and respects but with heavy consideration as to how they would affect each other, and the invaluable honor code.

The honor code is actually what holds the game together the best, though if you download this gameboard and play against the computer it becomes quite useless since it is intended for a full human game, but it graffs a new concept unto civ 2 which is that of rulers, precious units which represent leader units (but these are not the leaders from civ3) which must be protected at all costs lest your empire be divided in the internal struggle for power after your rulers' death. It is not programmed into the game but works perfectly if held aloft by the integrity of all the players. All, or the vast majority, of all graphics have been changed to make Civ 2 look a new game, but a game designed by someone with a deep sense of visual aesthetics, and I would here like to thank the people that designed alot of these units and terrain squares. I did touch up work on the vast majority of those icons and even made some myself but had I to draw everything from scratch I'd STILL be working on it today, so I am in debt to those who have meticulously worked to make such fine pixel drawings.

I hope that the moderators of this site will not remove this game to some sort of scenario section, since this actually belongs in the multiplayer forum almost more than any other thread; the very purpose of this being to attract those who are interested in my so called ELITE CHALLENGES and download the games that I will be playing elsewhere with a full host so that they may practice on a master's gameboard while waiting for the next game, and therefore the next map, to arrive, hence being able to participate in a fresh competition with all the rules and changes they have become accustomed to but with all new players and new terrain. I have a method by which I make maps, involving the zoom and limiting of how often I see everything at once to form a cohesion of all the lines and climates in my head, which leaves me mostly in the dark about the specifics of that which I myself created, but I will further this step even more by producing 5 maps with the same methods of creator-oriented obscurity and pick the first one, so narrowing my knowledge of it even more as it fades in memory, and then creating a sixth map if I want to use the second, and so on.

It is especially important, however, that this thread and its downloadable contents remain here since this is where me and my fellow players will come to (as well as its sister-thread at the fanatics center) in order to report the outcomes of each game, share the in-game stories and make further challenges to each other, etc. I am boldly, since such an effort could easily be despised and abused, trying to create an environment of serious gameplay, serious meaning intense, being offered only to those gamers who wish to reveal themselves, honorably and graciously I hope, as players of skill and endurance, who seek always a challenge in the paths of great strategical planning and execution and are not satisfied to play even just a couple other humans in mediocre settings but who require the highest caliber gaming that civilization 2 can provide them!

I hope this is well-received, since I wish for all to enjoy and read its contents and share in the excitement of such a place erected with the tension of sportsman-like competition which all good players enjoy, but I would ask those fond of replying back and forth amongst themselves otherwise specific-thread-irrelevant comments and conversation to keep their unelated dialogues to an absolute minimum, since I would wish that this thread remain open to anyone wanting to talk in earnest about the challenge I have presented or participate in its events without feeling they are interrupting page-long chats of those who have plenty of space elsewhere to carry on to such lengths their unrelated thoughts or being subject to the mean-spirited analyzations of other gamers who would inexplicably want to mock this site or those who come hear with pure purposes at heart involving only this great game and their love for it.

I trust all the members of this forum to have a bit of foresight, singling out no one in particular but voicing my concerns and feelings on the matter to all equally, that once this thread develops without the hindrance of those who would choose to see it abolished, preffering that everyone be in the same common ground which you must admit has not made any exceptional effort in organizing people in such a specific and personal way, that it will be an incredible resource not only for the best maps available (you'll see this for yourself) but for willing and comitted talent such as only these two sister websites can muster in such commendable numbers

It is also a fond wish of mine that the moderators keep an eye out for this thread, as I hope and trust they have an intimate wisdom enough concerning people and games, having done this for any amount of time as they have, so that it will be held precious, at least slightly, if I could choose, as an effort quite rare and done with a surprising level of grace I have even surprised myself with! I am used to appearing boldly and rashly up-close in the face of others when wishing to voice my thoughts above all others and gaining more enemies than friends with such methods but I hope the gentleness of my tone in this thread, which I have started with a will to not impose myself upon the space of others unwanted or dishonorably, will not be taken advantage of and the verbal graffiti may be kept to a minimum.

I would even maybe ask if all thoughts voiced here could be thought out and well-phrased pieces of intelligent discussion (!), but there, I believe all the odds in the universe are against me! I would therefore only ask that the debates remain topical and the mood be maintained as civil as all you unarguably fine gentlemen are capable of summoning from your better halves!

I will now attach NICOSAR'S MASTER GAMEBOARD scenario files, which include precisely: the files themselves, the original map, and all the documentation concerning the changes to the game and the honor code, which in all numbers 4 pages of units, 4 pages of techs (which are designed to be printed and arrayed as a poster) the general rules page and the 5 pages of the honor code. Just go to this website and look for 'Nicosar 1', ignoring all the other junk.

Enjoy this one; there will be more, and even, if you all have enough coordination inbetween your hectic schedules, organize a game for yourselves while I am engaged in my own full-human game! It would be quite spectacular if we could post two sets of outcomes for the same scenario with two different groups of skilled gamers!! This is but the first round of maps and games; i intend to be doing this quite a while now, since games are my specialty and this is my favorite one, and I hope that a brave and glorious host of inveterate pros will be here conducting their own negotiations and challenges when I arrive victorious from my tournament! But beware! At that point you will all have to stop feuding amongst yourselves and gather all your strength in alliance if you are to defeat me!!! AHAHAHAHAHHA!!

Call it a dream... -Nicosar the Gameplayer-

http://www.sincorp.org/civ2

Ming · September 23, 2002, 09:41

Yawn... if somebody actually reads through all of this, give me a summary

But I will say... keep this to a single thread. I don't want to see Multiple threads on this subject. Like any other group or game, only one thread is allowed.

Alexander's Horse · September 23, 2002, 09:50

Whoa!

I'd hate to see him on Kingchat

rah · September 23, 2002, 09:53

And he probably would do it during his turn.

RAH

Kuja · September 23, 2002, 15:00

::yawn:: Dude, if you want to say how good you are, simply say, I am the best, period. Nobody has asked for, or cares to read, your life story.

Nicosar · September 23, 2002, 17:03

My god....i will not be so feracious this time but.. well, I am simply appalled that is it, I see now that true gameplayers are not welcome in such an environment, of quick-commenting light-core gamers. it is fine, I will come back after, and maybe even during this game's progress and tellyou all some stories... but in the meantime, no, it really is sort of depressing that even the moderators take the same tone, youd think theyd be about the game and not maintaining some silly atmosphere of chat-types they're used to, but alas. im not despodent to you guys, by the way, just kinda of sad.... in the past i have willfully and without hesitation read many pages about game theory if it involved in depth stuff about civ, but i find you all just not really interested in the game, you just care about this 'gaming' environment you've created, which COULD be quiote awasome and put to great use, but alas, it is quite disheartening...

No insult guys, this comes from deep down, it the truth, look at the situation from anothers shoes...

Six Thousand Year Old Man · September 23, 2002, 17:08

I can always count on this forum for a good laugh - if for some reason I can't get into the OT.

Keep it up!

Nicosar · September 23, 2002, 17:10

.....and you would see that my thread has nothing to do with me claiming superiority, only me stepping up as having some strenghth in the hope of forging something that only strength can make.....

rah · September 23, 2002, 17:53

We're very interested in the game and stratagy and have many threads and games to prove it.

We're not interested in reading long posts consisting of Pompous drivel. Maybe if you had started with a simple HI, and worked up to it, we might have actually read it.
As it is, three sentences in, I was already starting to snooze. Next time, really try to actually say something.

Rich

Ming · September 23, 2002, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Nicosar
My god....i will not be so feracious this time but.. well, I am simply appalled that is it, I see now that true gameplayers are not welcome in such an environment, of quick-commenting light-core gamers.

Cram your holier than thou crap... Most of us here are indeed HARD CORE and true wargamers. You on the other hand seemed to be more interested in hearing yourself speak... We prefer actions... not a thousand words when 10 would surfice. Your ideas are no better or superior than others...

Quote:

it really is sort of depressing that even the moderators take the same tone, youd think theyd be about the game and not maintaining some silly atmosphere of chat-types they're used to, but alas. im not despodent to you guys, by the way, just kinda of sad....

Nahhhh... it's sad when some some newbee comes barging into a place and thinks he's better than everybody else... throwing insults around, and implying that he is the only true gamer...

Here is a tip... If you are tying to get people from THIS community to join your game, don't speak DOWN to them... Become a member of the community... learn... have people learn what you are about... Publishing a few thousand words and thinking you are a god isn't going to do it.

So don't hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse of yours... from reading all the crap you have posted, it's going to be a long way until you hit the ground.

Alexander's Horse · September 23, 2002, 19:51

This guy writes like Edward Gibbon

atawa · September 23, 2002, 20:18

I'm playing a game with Nicosar right now, I'll post the results later.

atawa · September 23, 2002, 20:30

The game crashed and after looking at citycount it seemed not much use in playing on.

Here's the save, Nicosar is Viking, another guy Spain (he got killed by barbs but rejoined)

I'm the crappy Babylonian player

Enjoy

Ming · September 23, 2002, 20:30

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
I'm playing a game with Nicosar right now, I'll post the results later.

Let's see if you are a true wargamer or not...

atawa · September 23, 2002, 20:37

Ming: I know you dont want people posting ICQ logs here but this was at his own request as you can read.

Mind making an exeption in this case?

Massovee: (2:13 AM) are you ok, compwise
Atawa: (2:13 AM) what happened?
Atawa: (2:13 AM) you crashed?
Massovee: (2:14 AM) no spy did, its shame but you have saved file i dont not even autos
Atawa: (2:15 AM) I have auto, but do you realy think you can still win this? I'll be building mike in about 20 turns, then I'll just flood the world with city's
Atawa: (2:18 AM) face it man, just looked at citycount and all AI are doing better then you, you still have a lot to learn
Massovee: (2:18 AM) i know, its all too true, i started on desert and a nub, had to move about 11 squares for city and then was surrounded in a three way bottleneck with little room; chinese to one side carthags on other mountain range on third!! only had three cities about to build 5, but weak and stupid. Luck is luck after all, and bad lucks just the same wanna start over on a bigger map?
Atawa: (2:20 AM) nah, going to bed, and med map is fine for 2 players, the AI usualy builds no more then 15 city's total anyway.

Mind if I post the save at poly?
Massovee: (2:23 AM) what save dude, you probably got nice land without total and absolute disruption like me, sure post them up, but be honest about the conditions of the game and write a piece reminding everyone that in a limited game such as this luck is mostly everything, i dont mind at all, that's why I dont play these types of games, remember?
Massovee: (2:23 AM) wanna redeem this sorry game and play again, if i 'luck out' twice that wont be an excuse after the second time right?
Atawa: (2:25 AM) sure, but going to bed now, its 2.30 over here and I need to get up at 9, we'll play later
Massovee: (2:25 AM) alright! icq me later!
Massovee: (2:25 AM) good nigh
Atawa: (2:25 AM) later man

Ming · September 23, 2002, 20:45

Quote:

Originally posted by atawa
I'm the crappy Babylonian player

Kicking butt again I see... I love when these newbees come in thinking they are the greatest since they always win at SP or have won a few PBEM games...

But I guess you aren't a true game player. Maybe his concept of a true gamer is one that gets his butt kicked, just like he did in this game.

Congrats for knocking him down a peg... he needs a few more such hits across the back of the head.

Ming · September 23, 2002, 20:48

Gee... maybe he is a master... When he loses, it's pure luck... When (or should I say if) he wins, I'm sure he will say it's skill...

Thanks for the laugh...

And yes, it's ok to post ICQ's and PM's "if" you have the other persons permission

Flatlander Fox · September 23, 2002, 20:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

But I guess you aren't a true game player. Maybe his concept of a true gamer is one that gets his butt kicked, just like he did in this game.

HEY, I resemble that remark...

Maybe you should have added something to the effect of how gracefully you lose adds to the "gamer" title.

I've played wargames all my life, and cheerfully take a loss along with a win.

(Well, cheerfully on the outside anyway!)

DrFell · September 23, 2002, 22:12

Great save Atawa.

100AD and 3 cities? lol, even the AI Chinese is doing better, and they lost a city to barbs! Looks like the master has a lot to learn. Care for some lessons?

Alexander's Horse · September 23, 2002, 23:47

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell

100AD and 3 cities?

It takes genius to play that badly

Ming · September 24, 2002, 00:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

It takes genius to play that badly

But remember, he did claim to have started on "bad" land...

Heck, even on really bad land you should have more than that.

True genius

Nicosar · September 24, 2002, 00:49

Are you gentlemen through yet? Of course not, this will be going on for quite some time, but that is expected from this hostility I perhaps have roused naively instead of remaining silent and not post anything at all.

Polite Ming? my first post ever at Apolyton was a couple days ago, read it again if you have a bit of stamina, politeness was not an issue unless you consider this seemingly arrogant attitude of mine a meanstreak (though ill admit it can be roused into one), it is only by the, and extremely strange by the way, concerted efforts of attack by your loyal subjects that I was put to feeling. If I am to be blamed for elitism, I should note that it's only because it seems I have come and claimed too much power in somebody elses kingdom rather than offending anybody. (at first of course; after the barrage was loosened I felt no hesitation to retaliate)

...and if you'll notice, I have tried again to regain some better and gentler atmosphere with this thread,using my length in words not as a declaration but as an insight into my true thoughts, but that was quickly, and inevitably, dumped on. That's fine though here's why;

I play games fellows, and right now I have a full game, which has never been an issue with me interms of the long turns, the more complex games requiring a lot of planning in the offturns anyway, and I think that when im done and come back here to invite some otherwise disgruntled players that I will succeed, having vengeful and rash offers of cold and unsportly challenge, but determined and worthy challenge nonetheless. It is good, in some ways, that I have gotten such a reaction, since the only way to get honey from a hive is to stir the bees within to leave their nest in anger, and angry games with bitter feuds can still be worthwhile.

As for this game that has recently been played, it was unfortunate. What can I say? Luck, you must admit, is a factor sometimes, as a person that started in an island, if he didnt have room to expand because of the small map, might complain about, but I make no further excuses,I would've lost this game.

However, I do hope you all realize that you have not seen me in action when given a fair chance, and if you look at the save file you will see that our positions were highly biased, me not having started on that river where my capital is but at the very tip of the south-western desert-nub, which, compared to where Babylon is (the capital), you must agree is a severe and almost wholy-disrupting handicap.

I do not lie though, for it is the distrust among men that is ever the greatest evil, and that nub was indeed my start position. There would be no need to lie even had I the upper hand and still lost, since I am not so stuck in my own head as you would believe but prefer to be a student only of reality's occurences.

I am once again trying to argue with you on logical terms, in the hope of regaining some friendliness among possibly skilled players (I must assume the worst, as you have of me), even though they aid partially in my defense, and urge you to remember the truth which I think you all know in your heads about my abilities being counteracted pre-game by those awful conditions.

Either way, me and this Atawa will face off again, hopefully in a slightly bigger map for expansion first and then war later, and I think that if I get 'lucky' a second time that I will have no choice but to admit to degradation. After all, I dont think even atawa would want to win by some sort of power-rating default and not in a contest of tactics. ( yes, expansion IS a tactic, I know, so please spare me)

Nicosar the Gameplayer....who is nevertheless still not immune to foul fortune...

Alexander's Horse · September 24, 2002, 01:05

Was I mentioned in that last rant?

Ming · September 24, 2002, 01:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Nicosar
Polite Ming? my first post ever at Apolyton was a couple days ago, read it again if you have a bit of stamina,

I read it once, and that was enough...

Quote:

politeness was not an issue unless you consider this seemingly arrogant attitude of mine a meanstreak (though ill admit it can be roused into one),

Arrogant doesn't even begin to explain the "attitude" that just dripped from your first post. Again, maybe you should take some classes on how to make new friends and earn respect. Looking down your nose at other people will only earn you similar treatment in return.

Quote:

it is only by the, and extremely strange by the way, concerted efforts of attack by your loyal subjects that I was put to feeling.

ROTFLMAO... shows what a newbie you are. My "loyal" subjects... HA HA HA HA... Nahhh, just a bunch of people responding in a similar fashion to your arrogant and silly attitudes.

Quote:

If I am to be blamed for elitism, I should note that it's only because it seems I have come and claimed too much power in somebody elses kingdom rather than offending anybody. (at first of course; after the barrage was loosened I felt no hesitation to retaliate)

I guess that your retaliation was getting killed at a mp game against a real gamer... slick move.

Yeah, you are an elitist... as you made perfectly clear with your first post. Too bad you can't back it up with Civ II MP skills... Even with your whining of bad land, you standings at the end of the game prove you know very little about the game. Even the rookies that post here could have done better with that starting position.

Quote:

...and if you'll notice, I have tried again to regain some better and gentler atmosphere with this thread,using my length in words not as a declaration but as an insight into my true thoughts, but that was quickly, and inevitably, dumped on.

Just more elitism and arrogance... you reap what you sow.

Quote:

I play games fellows, and right now I have a full game, which has never been an issue with me interms of the long turns, the more complex games requiring a lot of planning in the offturns anyway, and I think that when im done and come back here to invite some otherwise disgruntled players that I will succeed, having vengeful and rash offers of cold and unsportly challenge, but determined and worthy challenge nonetheless. It is good, in some ways, that I have gotten such a reaction, since the only way to get honey from a hive is to stir the bees within to leave their nest in anger, and angry games with bitter feuds can still be worthwhile.

Hmmm, he losses a game badly, and all he can talk about is angry Bees... HA HA HA HA HA... By seeing your city count in that game, it didn't look like you had a lot of planning to do. It seemed like your opponent had a lot of planning to do as he had to run a complex empire, while you had only a few basic decisions to make due to your lack of expanding in the game.

Quote:

As for this game that has recently been played, it was unfortunate. What can I say? Luck, you must admit, is a factor sometimes, as a person that started in an island, if he didnt have room to expand because of the small map, might complain about, but I make no further excuses,I would've lost this game.

Typical whining... I lost due to luck... Even the rookies here can see that even with the Bad Luck you had, you managed it poorly. Any of them could have done better.
Real skill is being able to work through bad luck... a class you seemed to have failed today.

Quote:

However, I do hope you all realize that you have not seen me in action when given a fair chance, and if you look at the save file you will see that our positions were highly biased, me not having started on that river where my capital is but at the very tip of the south-western desert-nub, which, compared to where Babylon is (the capital), you must agree is a severe and almost wholy-disrupting handicap.

Yawn... read my above comment again.

Quote:

I am once again trying to argue with you on logical terms, in the hope of regaining some friendliness among possibly skilled players (I must assume the worst, as you have of me), even though they aid partially in my defense, and urge you to remember the truth which I think you all know in your heads about my abilities being counteracted pre-game by those awful conditions.

Just more excuses... You obviously have no experience in "true" MP games... the name of the game is "expand, expand, and expand"... and even with the crappy land you had, you still should have had twice the number of cities. Luck may have played a role in your lossing, but lack of skill determinded HOW MUCH YOU LOST BY.

Quote:

Either way, me and this Atawa will face off again, hopefully in a slightly bigger map for expansion first and then war later

What... are you afraid to start near somebody... or are you so used to sp mode on super large maps that your strategies won't work unless you are left alone at the beginning of the game

Quote:

Nicosar the Gameplayer....who is nevertheless still not immune to foul fortune...

Whine, Whine... and more whining... typical. Again, you had a bad starting position, and you failed to deal with it. You will have to do better than that to prove to anybody that you have a clue on how to play a real MP game.

Alexander's Horse · September 24, 2002, 01:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

My "loyal" subjects... HA HA HA HA...

Loyal subject

Ming · September 24, 2002, 01:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Loyal subject

I just about lost it when he said that. Loyal subjects, in this forum... Just shows what a newbie he is. A good strategists learns the terrain before he fights on it.
But as shown by his poor decision making in the game he played, he obviously hasn't learned the art of war yet.

Nicosar · September 24, 2002, 02:00

It seems not all are immune to ranting... but do not mistake me, I joke!! I would prefer it a thousand times over again to be accused with long fingers than being nibbled at with little comments by little teeth; please, I thank you for responding to me fully, nothing else!

Look, Ming, I know what you say is true about a good player doing the best with bad luck, but if you had been in my position I think then you might agree that even if I had done better I still would only have 5 cities or so, but could you tell me that all of you would really respect that 'maximum effort for minimum condition' that I would ve displayed by doing that? I will leave this question to the imagination...

Also, I know only too well the disadavantages of playing in a game where human contact is widely separated and even the worst players have a cushion to build up some defenses unmolested, since I think you have hit on exactly the very single fault with playing such huge maps as I have put forward (though I haven't heard any compliments, yet, surely you must agree tis a nice map, no?). But, looking at it statistically, the same situation would be true for a later stage in the game, if those trends would've continued, so that upon meeting, though it'd be a lot later, the same proportions would hold true; i.e., 9 cities to 25, or something. There is a slight sacrifice at the beginning in this respect, but once the game gets sufficiently going then all those defenses made by the weaker player are devastated by the still mightier power of the better one, since they would still only have power equivalent to their skills, despite the time they had to work with them which would anyway be the same.

Just wait, we're playing in just a couple hours...lets save all future arguing until the results of those games! Even If I win, I guess I wont, since we'll be tied 1 to 1, and a third game will be needed! But since he got to decide the conditions of the first two.....

-Nicosar the Gameplayer- loyal only to the infinite vastness....

Alexander's Horse · September 24, 2002, 02:14

Can this guy say anything in less than 58 sentences?

Ming · September 24, 2002, 02:22

Ahhh... we are making some headway here. Maybe he does indeed want to join the community instead of just looking down his nose at it

Quote:

Originally posted by Nicosar
Look, Ming, I know what you say is true about a good player doing the best with bad luck, but if you had been in my position I think then you might agree that even if I had done better I still would only have 5 cities or so,

I would agree that you could have done better. The "true" gamers NEVER give up, and tries their hardest to make up for bad luck at the beginning of the game.
I looked real hard at the save, and the only conclusion I could come to is that you either gave up, or have no clue how to deal with bad starts.

Quote:

but could you tell me that all of you would really respect that 'maximum effort for minimum condition' that I would ve displayed by doing that? I will leave this question to the imagination...

no imagination needed... we don't like people that quit.
That is the bane of MP games. It is a time commitment that we make. We do this for entertainment. We only ask that people try their best no matter the start, and don't drop from the game because of bad luck. At least you played and didn't drop. Score a point for you!

Quote:

Also, I know only too well the disadavantages of playing in a game where human contact is widely separated and even the worst players have a cushion to build up some defenses unmolested, since I think you have hit on exactly the very single fault with playing such huge maps as I have put forward (though I haven't heard any compliments, yet, surely you must agree tis a nice map, no?). But, looking at it statistically, the same situation would be true for a later stage in the game, if those trends would've continued, so that upon meeting, though it'd be a lot later, the same proportions would hold true; i.e., 9 cities to 25, or something. There is a slight sacrifice at the beginning in this respect, but once the game gets sufficiently going then all those defenses made by the weaker player are devastated by the still mightier power of the better one, since they would still only have power equivalent to their skills, despite the time they had to work with them which would anyway be the same.

Large maps do indeed give players the option of playing an unmolested game. What skill is that. A true player can deal with adversity and is experienced in doing so.

I've played many games with AWFUL starting positions, and have been able to come back in the middle game. Sure, it takes some luck, but luck got me in trouble in the first place, so I have no problem when it actually helps me later in the game. No matter how skillful you are, luck is a factor. The secret is knowing how to deal with it... bad or good.

Quote:

Just wait, we're playing in just a couple hours...lets save all future arguing until the results of those games! Even If I win, I guess I wont, since we'll be tied 1 to 1, and a third game will be needed! But since he got to decide the conditions of the first two.....

Nahhh... if you stick around, you will learn that a single game is enough to draw abuse. However, if you win the second game, I will bet you that your opponent will not claim bad luck. He is a good player... and a solid competitor, and will not use bad luck as an excuse.

Get off your high horse... have fun... be entertained.
That's what the Civ II MP forum is all about.

Listen to the whiners... Listen to the chest thumpers...
Respond in kind.

With the release of PTW in the near future, the list of potential opponents for Civ II mp is dwindling. We need all the players we can get. So show some respect to the community that has been playing the game since the day it was released. Join the communtiy. Then you can whine, state your opinion, and enjoy the banter that is traditional in this forum

Keep on Civin'

Alexander's Horse · September 24, 2002, 02:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming

Get off your high horse...

Could you quit with the horsist metaphors please?