Nicosar's Master Challenge

[Ming]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Could you quit with the horsist metaphors please?

Nahhh... if it pisses you off... so much the better

[Nicosar]

I apologize for the missing link, i really did want to show you my craftsmanship, which might've saved me some batting away of pesting remarks considering its quite optimal condition and I have gone back and edited it to take you to the right place. NICOSAR 1, is what you want, if I should ever put a new map it will be in the same place you can always go to in the first post of this thread, and that would be called NICOSAR 2, and it doesn't matter which maps they are beyond that since I will always know and anybody keeping up with this thread will know which ones are currently in use in the MASTER CHALLENGE I will regularly host.

All that other junk in there you can ignore, and if you're curious is all downloadable, but it is really nothing.

-Nicosar the Gameplayer-

[Ming]

Gee... he apologized... making even more progress

We respect (well, some of us do) the effort that people make to increase the entertainment of Civ II MP.

Just lose the attitude... and things will improve.

Keep on Civin'

[atawa]

Originally posted by Nicosar
Either way, me and this Atawa will face off again, hopefully in a slightly bigger map for expansion first and then war later, and I think that if I get 'lucky' a second time that I will have no choice but to admit to degradation. After all, I dont think even atawa would want to win by some sort of power-rating default and not in a contest of tactics. ( yes, expansion IS a tactic, I know, so please spare me)

10 city's with infrastructure and a couplf of wonders to 3, oh my, I was very lucky this game

Oh and you forgot to mention you choose settings, med map, temperate, big island, emp, raging, 7 civs.
I think this was the first time I even played those settings.

I'm counting on it that in the next game I get to choose settings so I at least have a slight chance to win

But as for the bigger map, I have no problem with that.
Lets play: 60x100, wet, warm, 5 bil, small, arch, 2x2x king, huts, no AI, a true master of the game should do well on ALL settings so you would have no problem in kicking my ass.

These settings also make sure neither of us starts in a position where we have to move 11 turns before building a city, but then again, from start you just could have moved one step NE and get a city with an oasis and forrest, good enough for a start.

BUT LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE AGREED TO A CLEAN START, 1 SETTLER AND NO EXTRA TECH.

i JUST LOOKED AT THE 4000BC SAVE AND WHY THE **** DIDNT YOU SAY YOU HAD BRONZE AND MAS?

Care to explain this in less then 2 paragraphs?

Atawa
Loyal subject of Ming the merciless

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by atawa


BUT LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE AGREED TO A CLEAN START, 1 SETTLER AND NO EXTRA TECH.

i JUST LOOKED AT THE 4000BC SAVE AND WHY THE **** DIDNT YOU SAY YOU HAD BRONZE AND MAS?

Oh dear

[rah]

Originally posted by atawa
BUT LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE AGREED TO A CLEAN START, 1 SETTLER AND NO EXTRA TECH.

i JUST LOOKED AT THE 4000BC SAVE AND WHY THE **** DIDNT YOU SAY YOU HAD BRONZE AND MAS?

Oh dear is right.

He was proably typing a 200 work king chat and forgot to check.

What seems more silly is that he's complaining about the starting position. All he would have had to do was say "TECHS" and he would have gotten a restart.
Most skillful.

RAH

[-Jrabbit]

I've gotta say, this is the most amusing thread I've seen on MP in awhile.

I'm impressed that, after all that initial blather and predictable follow-up flames, Nicosar actually got down and played someone, and has taken his medicine with (relative) grace.

Much more amusing than the usual "hello eyes" threads. (Just a little more work to read through.)

(signed)
Loyal Subject -Jrabbit

[Ming]

Originally posted by atawa
BUT LAST BUT NOT LEAST, WE AGREED TO A CLEAN START, 1 SETTLER AND NO EXTRA TECH.

i JUST LOOKED AT THE 4000BC SAVE AND WHY THE **** DIDNT YOU SAY YOU HAD BRONZE AND MAS?

Oh dear

(and Attawa... you know the rules, if you are going to accuse somebody of cheating, you must show proof. Please post the 4000BC save so that everybody can see the evidence)

This just makes the fact that he was so far behind in sciences even funnier...

Elite player...

[rah]

Originally posted by Ming
(and Attawa... you know the rules, if you are going to accuse somebody of cheating, you must show proof. Please post the 4000BC save so that everybody can see the evidence)

I believe he did. No one had downloaded it yet though. I guess that shows who has established credibility here.

[Ming]

Originally posted by rah
I believe he did. No one had downloaded it yet though. I guess that shows who has established credibility here.

Damn... I was laughing so hard when I read that he had had a two tech lead and still got slaughtered that I didn't even see that attawa had included the attachment...

Time for a download...

[Ming]

Yep... it does indeed show that he started with two techs. As atawa says...

Care to explain this in less then 2 paragraphs?

But I wonder if he will even show his face around here again after that stunt...

I hope you didn't seriously hurt yourself when you hit the ground falling off of that very high horse...

[-Jrabbit]

In light of recent revelations, I feel compelled to clarify my previous post. Nicosar quotes below have been slightly rearranged for clarity. No actual verbiage has been changed.

Originally posted by Nicosar
(*snipped* for brevity) I know what you say is true about a good player doing the best with bad luck...

Yeah, those two free techs were pretty unlucky...

Originally posted by Nicosar
(*snip*) ...I would prefer it a thousand times over again to be accused with long fingers than being nibbled at with little comments by little teeth...

I don't think "accused" is the issue. Per atawa's posted save -- Asked and Answered -- Case Closed.
Bring on the sharp, nibbling teeth! (suggest the Northern Snakehead )

Originally posted by Nicosar
(snip) ...but could you tell me that all of you would really respect that 'maximum effort for minimum condition' that I would ve displayed by doing that?

I just gotta say 2 things here.
1. I have always honored my commitment to play (Civ2 and all games), and have always been respected for that -- yes, by members of this forum in particular.
2. "Minimum condition" = 2 free techs?? Let me know how I can get that deal and still cry poor!

My feeling re the amusement value of this thread remains unchanged.

[Kuja]

i thought this guy wasn't going to post anymore until his 7 player game was over? dont tell me you already lost in that game too... heh...

[Nicosar]

Greetings all;

This message is intended for Atawa mostly, though also for those others who might need some clarification on the issue in order to leave the issue be upon reading this, and it concerns the game conditions that you have mentioned.

I know it may seem to you, young chap, that those first game settings were of my own construct but it is not so; you have read (I hope, since it would be slightly foolish for someone to post in a thread whose ACTUAL meaning has somehow elluded them) what kind of games I play, on what maps and rules, which I would hope you would download and peek to see my prefferred style of play, and unless memory betrays me you were the one to challenge me to a game on a random medium map on that fateful day, and unless you are so unlogical that this argument may as well go unsaid, I should think that all the other settings such as temperate and 3 bil. years and even choosing emperor and raging barbs (would you have them any less) were merely obvious necessities to generate a map of your choosing with quickest ease and minimum conferencing on what should be a simple task. I actually feel tricked, though more like someone that sees the covered-up hole in the ground and merely steps beside it, since in all but the most scrupulous details I entered your proposal, not the other way around.

Now, as for the next game you propose, you may choose that as well, even (though if there is a third I should let you know my feelings) but I will not under any circumstance play on 2x2x settings; I have played it but once years ago and, not loosing or anything too demanding of excuses, became disgusted by the level of corruption it wielded upon the game and have never touched it since. It is the equivalent of 'godmode' for Doom, or the all-weapons cheat for Grand Theft Auto, since like them it spoils the finer elements of a game that was intended to be harder and more precise, even though double production and such does not grant omnipotence. A catapult that can siege a city as if a howitzer, and a howitzer that can do the same as if a slow helicopter are things I hace tried to avoid in all my years of playing. I think maybe it can add diversity, but overall it is not worth it.

Otherwise I dont have any critique I can think to mention, but I will refer to your proposal for the second bout and let you know any further opinions I might have. Enlightning, I know.

As for the rest of you, I can only say that I hope, as I before have stated in other, more direct, manners that you will stop this driveling bickering amongst yourselves, for the honor of well-spoken strategists everywhere who choose to debate and not argue, since it is by no means and no longer of importance to me, event though I read them all first to check for any validity.

I am clearly disapointed with last game's results, of course, but my horse is a precious thing and will kneel to the ground if he feels I have been dismounted and we soon thereafter ride again.

[rah]

Gee, all that and no mention of the the two free techs. (unless I missed it in all that. )



I'm glad he takes himself seriously since I doubt many here will.

RAH
But I will agree with him about 2x movement, without taking half a page.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Nicosar
Greetings all;

This message is intended for Atawa mostly, though also for those others who might need some clarification on the issue in order to leave the issue be upon reading this, and it concerns the game conditions that you have mentioned.

I know it may seem to you, young chap, that those first game settings were of my own construct but it is not so; you have read (I hope, since it would be slightly foolish for someone to post in a thread whose ACTUAL meaning has somehow elluded them) what kind of games I play, on what maps and rules, which I would hope you would download and peek to see my prefferred style of play, and unless memory betrays me you were the one to challenge me to a game on a random medium map on that fateful day, and unless you are so unlogical that this argument may as well go unsaid, I should think that all the other settings such as temperate and 3 bil. years and even choosing emperor and raging barbs (would you have them any less) were merely obvious necessities to generate a map of your choosing with quickest ease and minimum conferencing on what should be a simple task. I actually feel tricked, though more like someone that sees the covered-up hole in the ground and merely steps beside it, since in all but the most scrupulous details I entered your proposal, not the other way around.

Now, as for the next game you propose, you may choose that as well, even (though if there is a third I should let you know my feelings) but I will not under any circumstance play on 2x2x settings; I have played it but once years ago and, not loosing or anything too demanding of excuses, became disgusted by the level of corruption it wielded upon the game and have never touched it since. It is the equivalent of 'godmode' for Doom, or the all-weapons cheat for Grand Theft Auto, since like them it spoils the finer elements of a game that was intended to be harder and more precise, even though double production and such does not grant omnipotence. A catapult that can siege a city as if a howitzer, and a howitzer that can do the same as if a slow helicopter are things I hace tried to avoid in all my years of playing. I think maybe it can add diversity, but overall it is not worth it.

Otherwise I dont have any critique I can think to mention, but I will refer to your proposal for the second bout and let you know any further opinions I might have. Enlightning, I know.

As for the rest of you, I can only say that I hope, as I before have stated in other, more direct, manners that you will stop this driveling bickering amongst yourselves, for the honor of well-spoken strategists everywhere who choose to debate and not argue, since it is by no means and no longer of importance to me, event though I read them all first to check for any validity.

I am clearly disapointed with last game's results, of course, but my horse is a precious thing and will kneel to the ground if he feels I have been dismounted and we soon thereafter ride again.

Yes but WHAT ABOUT THE 2 FREE TECHS YOU DIDN'T TELL ATTAWA ABOUT?

[Nicosar]

Ah. I have gone back to his statement and indeed found things that need adressing.

Atawa, I cannot recall at all this rule about no techs, though I certainly did have only 1 settler, and neither can CySpy, the third player who contacted me back and who I asked about such a rule, and though I know that you could've mentioned it to me in the pre-game ICQ chat to which he was not a part, you'd think that such a thing would be brought up again in-game to confirm such a crucial and important requirement of playing, but unless both me and him are mistaken, this was not done.

Now, my dear youthful friend, this is an accusation of blatant cheating which not only me but CySpy is also guilty of, whoever he may be, and I would ask you to consider things more carefully before making such grievous proclamaitons, being that even if we were actually to be dishonored for cheating so shamelessly that it would have been sprung upon us like a trap, which I see you're quite fond of setting up. Are you a trickster then, that is fine, for tricksters rely on the precision of the formulaic devices that is part of their trade, and so now I burn to rematch you in a game where hopefully I will not be crippled despite these advantages I was unaware I had which I did not anyway have the opportunity to exploit in full, so that I may expose by surprise and spearhead tactics the weakness of your predicatable and formulaic playing.

In my games, young apprentice of better gamers, there are no huts from which to gain advantages. No omnipotent wonders whom most players dealing with this type of game predictability rush to instead of applying more strategy to their choice in techs, there being only slightly half of them left, the ones that only effect your cities in minor ways and are not so crucial. There is only you, TONS of barbarians, even more so then just setting them to raging could provide because of the map design, your human opponents, and aton of land which is not some green and lush freeland such as Babylon was privy to, but a harsh and realistic terrain where only a few plump slivers of land are immediately available, making for plenty of rough terrain for your enemies to mass in secret. I hope after defeating you in this game, which I hope, given just a tiny bit of luck at the start, will not be too difficult, that you can come to my master gameboard where me and some finer non-formulaic strategists can show you the meaning of adaptation and intelligent tactics.

Until then though, I look forward, to beating you at your own game until you are privileged to come to mine and find yourself without your former tricks, utterly lost and disoriented give the overwhelming freedom you have never before enjoyed and would not know the first thing about how to utilize.

[atawa]

Atawa, I cannot recall at all this rule about no techs, though I certainly did have only 1 settler, and neither can CySpy, the third player who contacted me back and who I asked about such a rule, and though I know that you could've mentioned it to me in the pre-game ICQ chat to which he was not a part, you'd think that such a thing would be brought up again in-game to confirm such a crucial and important requirement of playing, but unless both me and him are mistaken, this was not done.

Ok, smart move, and since the game crashed all king chat logs are gone...................... But get this guy in here who lost to barbs and he will tell you the same I'm telling you.....you even asked him about being clean once I explained the concept to you 'master'

blablablablablabalblabalbal

I'll have to respond to that tomorrow, just came back from a friends wedding so I need some

[Ming]

Gee... 10,000 words

Let me summerize it for you all.

He cheated... He then tries to say it was never agreed upon... Atawa just laughs... and for good reasons...

He cheated. And that's all there is to it. All your words won't change the fact that you aren't an honorable player... you are just a cheater.

No need to read anything else

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Nicosar

Atawa, I cannot recall............blah, blah, blah

Ah - the Ronald Reagan defence

[War4ever]

you know..i was going to play you..but i don't think so now.... :q

[Chris 62]

Somehow I feel disapointed, mr elite cheated, and STILL GOT HIS ASS KICKED??!!??

Prehaps he's using the Slowwhand method of lousy cheating...

[deity]

Welcome to the Civ2MP community Nicosar.

If you are sincere you may have gotten a raw deal here from the Apolytoners.

Someone like you coming in cold may not fully realise what's OK and not OK.

If you are stirring, well done

[atawa]

Well you must admit he sometimes has a nice way of using the english language, reminds me a bit of those medievel knight films

Massovee: (6:33 AM) You want to do this...I feel as if I beat you then I will be slapping ten thousands geeks in the face with a wad of ****, but dont worry, i got class, i'd use gloves. At first, I kind of liked you since you came to me, the fire of challenge burning in you, but it is insolence and not greatness that brought you here, I now see. Go ahead, post this up weakling, to share the pain of it with your *****-buddies as you certainly have done but you know that no tech crap is bullshit, and before I wasnt angry, though neither am I now, just more spirited, and I played the last game without this heat. So lets go again, please, for now the furnace burns, youngling, to quench the irritation that is your mouth.

[rah]

So much blather from him about the perfection of maps, opponents and the game, just to ignore the advantage of free techs. By calling the no tech rule crap, he proves that he does not really understand the game. Or he just likes the advantage when he hosts, which I bet he prefers to do. Idiot or Loser? Take your pick.

RAH

[Flatlander Fox]

When did you get to play him again Atawa?

I tried to goad him into a game, but he declined, saying that he won't duel at all.

The No-Tech rule is pretty important, I am trying to get the people at the MultiSite game to realize it, but no one is listening.

I am truly hurt by Nicosar's rejection.

Perhaps if I ask nicely next time?

[atawa]

I didnt play him again, if he wants to play the settings listed earlyer in this thread he can contact me.

[Chris 62]

He would answer, but he's busy composing his next reply, they do take awhile to type....

[Ming]

He is either a cheater... or a miserable Civ II player who thinks he needs a "few extra tech" head start to have a chance.

Now let's see... Atawa has a proven track record of honesty here. If he says they discussed it in advance, I would tend to believe him.

So I take it back, remove the "or" from my first sentence and change it to "and"... Nicosar is probably both based on his performance even after having a two tech lead...

[TheFather]

I find this thread disappointing. To be honest, the responses to Nicosar's initial post lead me to believe perhaps many members of this forum were so lazy that they failed to read the text and merely respond alongside the impressions of others.

Have those of you who have responded with such wise and humorous posts even read his initial post? I would think not were I to rely only on the content of those responses. It eludes me where Nicosar looks down on this community in his first statement. Further, I see nothing in it to have made him deserving of such hostile comments. While his final paragraph makes statements which are clearly meant to be in the fun and sport of a good challenge, many of you respond with such remarks it seems you have misread, or worse failed to read, his post at all.

Even more humorous, there are those of you who chastise Nicosar for the length of his post. This does nothing more than insult your own comprehension. It takes but a mere moment to read a few paragraphs, yet there are those of you who scoff at the idea of spending more than that on such well written prose. For the literate, such wonderful imagery is refreshing to the mind, much moreso than reading senseless insults slung like mud during a political campaign, which is how I would describe the posts which follow his.

More importantly, noone has even taken the time to review what he has uploaded. Having done so myself, I am excited about his game and have asked to be among its participants. The slowing of tech and the removal of certain "game-turning" wonders, I feel, is a move in the right direction. While there are those who prefer fast games, small maps and 2x2, as mentioned before, those games result in a bastardization of a game which was meant to allow for strategy to unfold with precise management of one's civ, not speed to the finish line like one sponsored by Gatorade at a nascar event. Certainly, it is obvious the role luck plays in the latter, no? This is only my opinion, mind you, one I share with Nicosar.

Speaking to his loss with Atawa, being his first time here I see no fault in his not being aware of the rule of no techs despite the claims that it was discussed, yet the majority of you raise your hands and yell "cheater, cheater" without hesitation, and before knowing the facts. Even worse, once you do know them, you choose to further sling insults as if the fact that the third player was unaware of the no tech rule is meaningless.

You should be ashamed at how you have treated this man. Ming, your words stand above all others as ugly and ignorant, adding nothing to the conversation other than the opportunity to hear yourself berate one with nothing more than a love for this game. Apparently, maturity is not a prerequisite to being a moderator.

Atawa, your victory is noted, and while Nicosar has spoken words of his skill and mastership of Civ he has honorably accepted his loss, stating only that he had a bad starting point (which has happened to us all, indeed). You on the other hand, with unending support of your fellow posters, have gloated your victory many times over and continued to demean and speak as if you are deserving of some award for winning. I ask you, which of you has acted more as a child calling others names in school?

In closing, I anticipate more similar comments as seen before concerning the length of this post and my failure to warm up to this community as if you all are so inherently worthy of respect (certainly not from what ive seen in this thread). Let me respond now to save you the effort: If you have trouble reading this post because it contains more than 100 words, I pity you. As for warming up to this community, if one such as Nicsoar who truly loves this game and posts illustrating his passion, is received such as he was here on this thread, then warming up to this community is not one of my priorities.

Before lashing out at a man of many years, please take the time to review the thread (unless, of course, it would waste your precious time) and try to see that all I have tried to say is that Nicosar was not deserving of the harsh treatment he has received. Could I have posted here with only that comment? Sure, but what would be the fun in that