First Impressions....

[Locutus]

1) In addition to what Pedrunn said, we have to warn that we've never actually added new terrain types to the regular game yet. In theory it should be possible but quite frankly noone has tried, so if they will actually be used by the map-generator is unknown. But even if that doesn't work, SLIC might be able to help out. And even if that should fail, 4 times almost 30 trade good is still a lot

2) The City Manager helps a lot in this respect: it displays the population size of the city and the Growth bar gives you the city growth. If the population of a city exceeds a multiple of 10,000, your city grows (so a city with 89,000 people and a growth of +1,500 will grow from size 8 to size 9 in the next turn). If the growth bar is red, your city is starving, if it's green it's growing (the bigger the bar, the faster the growth) and red + green indicates overcrowding: your city is so big and polluting that some of the growth is lost. The red part shows how much growth is lost to overcrowding.

Basic modding is very simple, anyone can do it: everything you need is in text files (and most of the graphics are in tga format). For complicated stuff like modding the AI, diplomacy or SLIC, some experience is useful but many things like changing unit stats or adding governments can be learned in days, if not hours.

[Pedrunn]

The only way to get more forums is if the post-rate goes up further - but MP would be a more likely candidate for a new forum than Strategy (of course, if the MP discussion goes, there will be more room for strategy threads on the first page)...

So shouldnt we let the modwrap up thread drop and top one about strategy. I think it is more important.

[Locutus]

I still plan on making a similar thread to the 'important mods and scenarios' thread in the Creation forum here, with links to all important threads - but I haven't gotten around that yet. If you have a good suggestion for a thread to replace mod wrap-up and the rest of the community agrees, I'm all ears...

[Provost Harrison]

Either today is April 1st or someone has taken over Vel's account...

Please tell me this is a sick joke

[Pedrunn]

I still plan on making a similar thread to the 'important mods and scenarios' thread in the Creation forum here, with links to all important threads - but I haven't gotten around that yet. If you have a good suggestion for a thread to replace mod wrap-up and the rest of the community agrees, I'm all ears...

Couldnt we vote like before. Funny while i am typing this here i am talking to you in the chat

Either today is April 1st or someone has taken over Vel's account...

Please tell me this is a sick joke

No, just another Civ3er that tried CTP2 and enjoyed it more as usual

[Dale]

Good news re: units tied to resources, but why would anybody WANT workers, in light of PW???

Vel:

I for one am a big fan of PW, never saw the point in moving hundreds of settlers/workers around just to build roads, but I thought if giving Civ series fans a "taste of home" in the worker system would make them at least play a few serious games of CTP2, and SEE and FEEL how the game is as opposed to just bagging it from the start because it's not "Sid's" (see below for THAT opinion!), then it's worth the time I put into it. After they play with PW and see how it is, they'll never go back.

As per Sid, is HE an over-rated designer! In my opinion he's had TWO (read that TWO!) good games. Pirates and Civilisation 1. Other than that, they're either re-hashes, or just plain crap games. I mean look at Sid's Simgolf, here in Australia it's already in "EA Classics" boxes selling for $20! It's only been IN Australia for three months.

[Velociryx]

Total newbie question....I looked in the manual and didn't find the first clue about it, and the army manager screen says nada, so what gives? How the heck do ya upgrade those old, obsolete units!? I've got some Hoplites, and my gut tells me there oughtta be a way to upgrade them all to Pikes, but.....

-=Vel=-
PS: Re-started my game in light of some observations made here and played to 800BC tonight, and am in firm control of the continent I started on. Busted some Zulu chops, but didn't kill them all! There's a coracle running about somewhere....or something! Dang it anyhow....::shrug:: That's okay....a couple of my near neighbors got little toe-holds on my continent, but I'm tolerating their presence....should make setting up embassies easier, which reminds me! I've got my first diplomats coming on line soon....recently switched to Republic and am peppering the landscape with spotter units whose only function is to dispel the fog of war inside my borders so I can better keep track of what the heck's going on.

So far, every wonder that's been built belongs to yours truly, and I must say, the Forbidden Palace strikes me as having some juicy possibilities in the near and mid-term....::as he fiendishly plans::

Thanks to everybody for recommending the game, I'm just sorry it took me so long to finally crack open the box!

-=Vel=-
(off to bed, with visions of world conquest dancing in my head)

[Maquiladora]

Unfortunately you cant "automatically" update units ala Civ3 in the unmodded game. In Cradle and MedMod you can when you discover the prerequisite advance, you get to upgrade them on the same turn, if you have enough cash for each one in turn.

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Unfortunately you cant "automatically" update units ala Civ3 in the unmodded game.

I've often thought that would be a very worthy addition to CTP2... The updater code used in the mods, is good in that it requires planning ahead, but I do miss being able to update at will...

[Locutus]

Say, Provost, maybe you ought to set your prejudices aside sometime and try this game, give it and it's mods a decent chance to prove themselves - who knows, you might actually like what you see

Vel is far from the only Apolyton vet to have given it a try and liked it: Paul, Harlan, Leonidas, Lancer, Sagacious Dolphin, Rah, Yin - heck, if I'm not mistaken, even 'Apolyton Troll' Alexander's Horse doesn't mind CtP2 too much, if it wasn't for the lack of an MP community... Perhaps it's not such a bad game after all?

centrifuge,
Yeah, the Activision team thought it was a worthy addition as well, they were working on implementing just that feature in the game when the reorganisation hit and they were dismantled But it ain't all that hard to change the version in the mods to be more flexible if you want, I think there have been discussions about this in the creation forum...

[Pedrunn]

I've often thought that would be a very worthy addition to CTP2... The updater code used in the mods, is good in that it requires planning ahead, but I do miss being able to update at will...

I have already a variation of the unit updater that upgrades the obsolete units when you entrench an army in a city. But i do consider creating a new order to the units call upgrade. Wich from what i have is just a minor change.

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Pedrunn

I have already a variation of the unit updater that upgrades the obsolete units when you entrench an army in a city. But i do consider creating a new order to the units call upgrade. Wich from what i have is just a minor change.

Really? I remember some talk about doing this a while back, but didn't know that anything came of it. Sweet , So, how does the AI handle it? ...and how can I get a hold of it?

One more question: with the new upgrade order will the units still have to be in the cities? (my preference would be yes )

[Pedrunn]

Really? I remember some talk about doing this a while back, but didn't know that anything came of it. Sweet , So, how does the AI handle it? ...and how can I get a hold of it?

It only was possible because of a piece of code from my advance from city code.

One more question: with the new upgrade order will the units still have to be in the cities? (my preference would be yes )

This up to me to decide and i dont like the idea of upgrading right before the an attack for example so i believe the best is be in the city. So i agree with you. The AI just checks the army near cities every turn and starts upgrading from the biggest to the smallest army until the gold is gone. So that next time he can try again (opposed to the Peter Triggs unit updater i dont like the AI cheating so notable getting all their units upgraded for free).

[centrifuge]

Awesome Pedrunn!! Another excellant addition to the game

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Velociryx
1) Any particular limit to the number of resources the game can support?

In therory you could add a very high number of good, that would be as high as the sky. But you have the 4 goods per terrain limit, but that could be broken with some extra terrains that looks like the original terrain with the same stats, but other goods. The main limit is the sprite limit, the game only supports 200 different unit, effect, city and good sprites. Only a hack like the Civ2 no limit hack would allow to break these limits. Of course Activision has to be asked for their consent to be able to post it here or you have to get the source.

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Locutus
A lot more traffic We don't have enough strategy talk and certainly not enough stories (none, apart from the Succession Games) to warant a seperate forum The only way to get more forums is if the post-rate goes up further - but MP would be a more likely candidate for a new forum than Strategy (of course, if the MP discussion goes, there will be more room for strategy threads on the first page)...

That's true, otherwise Markos wouldn't have mergerd the CTP2 forums. Of course not without causing a lot of damage to the single threads. Now you can find threads with post in that just contains a single number, you don't know were these threads start. You find gust poster in it named MarkG. Actual I believe Marcos did these posts.

-Martin

[Pedrunn]

That's true, otherwise Markos wouldn't have mergerd the CTP2 forums.

But thing arent as calm as thry were last year. The amount of people posting has gone to the highs. new threads are getting lost really quicly.

[Wittlich]

I have to agree with Pedrunn - a year ago the CTP2 Forum was dead. Now the forum has been getting a good flow of posts....

[Martin Gühmann]

That might be right that we have more traffic now but compare it to the Civ3 forums, although the traffic there goes down, but in 100 days the Civ3 general forum has more then 1000 active threads in comparision to 123 active threads of the CTP2 general forum. The Civ3 creation forum has something over 400 active threads in 100 days in comparision to 153 right now. Then you have to consider you have nine Civ3 forums with enough traffic, like the Civ3 democratic games forum also one with more then 1000 active threads in the last hundret days. So this is the number of traffic you need, maybe 600 threads per 100 days would be enough to justify a split of forums, but this number is far away. Maybe if you have 150 multiplayer threads per 100 days could be enough, but this is a low number. It is still possible to read everything here in the CTP2 forums.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

It's great to hear from you again Velociryx and even greater to read you really appreciate this wonderful game that is CtP2.

Wait to play a mod, like the Apolyton Pack, and you will be enthralled. The AI is really far more challenging.

I like the idea of being able to upgrade units, if you modders can do this CtP2 will be greatly improved (please, make this mod compatible with the Apolyton Pack ).

And I agree with Centrifuge, a unit should be in a city in order to be upgraded.

[centrifuge]

I think if at all possible, a unit should not only be in a city, but in a city with a barracks...

[Wittlich]

Originally posted by centrifuge
I think if at all possible, a unit should not only be in a city, but in a city with a barracks...

That might be a bit tricky, since (in Cradle) one of the advancemnts (the 3rd one actually) that triggers the unit updater is the advance Barracks...but I guess like everything else, this too could be changed...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by centrifuge
I think if at all possible, a unit should not only be in a city, but in a city with a barracks...

Once again I agree with you Centrifuge but there are no such things as Barracks in the Original game or in the SAP.

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Once again I agree with you Centrifuge but there are no such things as Barracks in the Original game or in the SAP.

I know, but I bet that that can be changed

[monolith94]

I'd play it if they had a demo for it for macintosh…

[Velociryx]

Started my second game (this time, playing as the Egyptians). Got to 420BC before having to call it a night, and what can I say but WHAT A DIFFERENCE!

Got off to a smashingly good start (accepted the world defaults, hard difficulty level, Marauding (max) barbs).

Found the Indonesians just east of me, with two cities (I still had one at the time), and took them out of the game with two warriors and an archer that I got from a hut. Shortly thereafter, I founded my second city AND got another from a hut. Five cities, minimal work, and I was chuckling to myself at that point, thinking I would have an easy game ahead of me....boy what a shock I was in for!

I had started at the extreme southern end of what proved to be a *massive* continent, and commenced to settle in a generally northerly direction....the land was good, fertile, and blessed with an abundance of trade goods. I duly beelined for Trade to take advantage of the windfall, and continued on my merry way.

The southern portion of the continent was all tundra wasteland, and so I ignored it....my first mistake.

There was also a *beautiful* natural chokepoint that opened up into a "central section" of the continent, before closing down onto a secondary choke point further north, with THAT opening into yet another wide swath of continental territory (at least from what I could see.....I still have not explored that far north!). I envisioned myself settling the southerly choke point, and use that to springboard colonization of central plain.

At that point, my entire army consisted of two groups....two warriors and two archers each. Bad move.

Two things happend in the same breath that caught my empire unprepared.

First, was the barbs. Only a couple, so I worked around them, anxious to continue my explorations northward. Then more came....and more still. Worse, they started to congregate into groups of 3-4.

As a countermeasure, I bundled by two strike groups into a single group of 8, pulled them off of their exploration duties, and brought them south to hunt for barbs.

Problem solved....or so I thought.

I'm happy to report that my barbarian hunting expeditions were a smashing success. The roads re-opened, clearing the way for new settlers, and life was good. I snagged most of the early wonders (Ramyana, Great Wall, Appian Way, and had just begun on the Forbidden Palace....feeling quite good about myself. So good, in fact, that I didn't feel the need to augment my military any.

Then the Arabians showed up with an army of 8.

My guys had taken some damage fighting barbs, and were down to six, but I figured that was close enough, so I hauled them northward again, toward my three newest cities (one in the Egyptian heartland, one at the southern chokepoint, and the third up in the central plain).

What I *didn't* count on was the *second* army of Arabians....12 units in that one.

Nor the 12 unit army of Italians.

Worse, both nations seemed quite intent on kicking my arse OUT of the central plain, and quite possibly, out of the homeland too!

Very quickly I realized my mistake, and set half my cities producing a mix of hoplite and archer, withdrawing my main (only) battlegroup to the capitol to await developments.

The developments were that, quite simply, all three of my frontier cities fell, and Arabia had an army of 8 trolling around right outside my capitol while I was troop building and preparing the counter offensive.

At no time did I ever feel immensely threatened.....it wasn't as though I feared being sweapt from the map....my empire was large and well put together, so I knew I could take them....but it was very....EXQUISITELY tense!

Finally, with two strike groups of twelve at the ready, I felt confident enough to switch my production away from cheapies and on to mounted archers (thanks to a newly gotten tech), these went into mass production, and my two armies duly trapped the Arabian 8 that had been lurking near the capitol, and destroyed them, then moved north to liberate our captured territories. All three were retaken with minimal fuss and acceptable losses, tho in the case of the third, I waited till I had my first army of 12 fast movers in position.

From there, the Greek, Mongolians, AND the Celts(?) decided they'd get in on the fun, and suddenly I found myself sqaured off against FIVE of my seven rivals.

Three on one, I could handle, but I figured five on one was a bit harsh, so I made plans to get at least one of my opponents out of the fight ASAP.

Arabia was closest (having all their cities in the central plain....further intellegences revealed that Italy and Celts(?) had evenly split the northern reaches of our shared continent, and so my growing force pool converged, then poured into the central plain, attacking anything that came near us, but showing particular fondness for blitzing Arabian armies.

Had a rude surprise when I lost an army of nine knights when I captured (destroyed) an enemy size one city with no losses, and then watched my entire army die for no reason I could discern. GULP!

Also, one of my footslogger armies got trapped between the armies of three of my enemies and ground into dust, but we continued onward relentlessly, and soon, had captured three cities (two arabian) and destroyed three more in the central plain.

Arabia sued for peace, and I cleared the central plain of enemy forces, planting an army of twelve on the northern choke point.

My new territories are not yet connected to the empire proper, but one city plunked down in between them and the rest of the empire will do it, and I'll have contiguous borders.

I'm three turns from being able to switch to Republic, but am kinna leery of that, given that I'm still at war with four of my rivals, tho in the near term, I have stopped building troops in my core cities--still building troops in all newly acquired cities tho--and have sufficient troops milling about the central plain to form up three strike groups of 10-12 units each.

So...how bad is war weariness in Republic, and would it matter if I kept the fight inside my borders? I'd love 70% science, because the Germans and Greek are blowing my doors off on the stat chart, but if it means half my cities rebelling on account of war weariness, no thanks....I'll use Monarchy and take all these rat-b@stards out!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Nother question: Is there a fan-created file someplace that shows all the playable civs and the techs they start with?

-=Vel=-

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Nother question: Is there a fan-created file someplace that shows all the playable civs and the techs they start with?

Vel, I don't think the starting techs are civ-specific. These civs are all generic, one weakness compared to Civ3. There are govt-specific units in Cradle...assuming you plan to spend a good long while in that particular government.

[centrifuge]

Originally posted by Velociryx

Had a rude surprise when I lost an army of nine knights when I captured (destroyed) an enemy size one city with no losses, and then watched my entire army die for no reason I could discern. GULP!

OOPs , I'll bet dollars to donuts, that the city was on top of a mountain Mounted units can't travel or "live" on top of mountains...

As far as republic goes, if you plan on being in war for a while, stick to monarchy until you get fascism....

[hexagonian]

The only gov. specific units in the default game are the Fascist/Fascism, EcoTerrorist, EcoRanger/Ecotopia. No civ-specific techs, bonuses either

But on the bright side, there are a host of gov.specific units that can be put in...and has been done so. Plus there are leader units created via Wonder construction, unit update ability, really bloodthirsty barbs and civs.

''...hex licks his lips waiting for Vel to try any one of the Mods to realize the depth the Modders have been able to implement into CTP2...''