Scenario Preview: Lebensraum 1939 - Page 2

anarchywrksbest · October 2, 2002, 13:41

I know it has been pointed out before but.....LONDONDERRY is British! Being the perfectionist that you are I am sure you have changed it BUT if you dont let me reimnd you that Londonderry was an important British port for acces to the Atlantic and so really SHOULD be British if you want reallism

Pavlov · October 2, 2002, 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Caspian
Well, Grothgar, I bow to your superior knowledge on this matter. However, my source tells me that rather than slow mobolization, the French were too efficient and had to release scores of men again for essential war work (hehe, those silly frenchies..hehe). As far as he armour, I don't know anything about this, but we all know that their main drawback was the deployment of tanks piecemeal, rather than in combined hard hitting units, despite the fact that some of their tanks were better than those of Germany.

Hmm. AFAIK (and I'm speaking entirely of the top of my head here) it took the French about ten days to mobilize the army. That was only the soldiers though and the mobilization began well too late.

Also all heavy equipment such as arty etc were in mothballs and because of poor bureacracy and various problems that took quite a while too.

What is your source btw?

kobayashi · October 3, 2002, 02:13

All said and true, wasn't the puny French airforce the Achilles Heel?

Caspian · October 3, 2002, 07:07

My source is "the world at war" series. Even if French mobolization took 10 days or more, the polish campaign began on sept 1st 1939 and was virtually over by 20th. The Germans didn't invade France until 5th June the following year. So, even if it took a month for the French forces to be ready, they would still have opportunity to make a bold attack while the Germans were transfering from the east, and making the logisical preparations for the west.

Pavlov · October 3, 2002, 09:07

Ah but you forget the Sigfried line. As you said it was far from finished but it would still be easier to defend such a small area (the Rhineland) with few troops. The French could have attacked through Belgium and the Netherlands which would have been perfectly logical from a strategical point of view. But politically it would have been suicide.

Kobi has a point, it would have been hard for the French airforce to protect their troops from attacks.

But what does this have to do with the scen?

The French player should of course have the choice of attacking first. Total freedom, right? If you want to take that risk or save your forces is your own decision.

Cyrion · October 3, 2002, 09:37

FMK, seems excellent!

I just noticed the "lighthouse" terrain on the irish map: is it a new one?? I never saw it in a scen, and IMHO it's just superb!

Has the pbem test started?

klesh · October 3, 2002, 18:06

Fear not Kobra! That city in question is not Oslo, it is Kristiansand, I think that it is represented properly on the map. The rest of the national flags are placed on capitals... all except Norway, as there is no room in the in-game map for beloved Oslo.

anarchywrksbest, I did change that in-game immediatly, and likewise updated the image in the post. Because I used the same name for the image in the post, I guess the file replacement didn't work.

Case, I havent been online in the past few days, I did't know untill I read your post that it was even in the news section. I didn't do a thing.

but

Cyrion, Thanks! Thats actually a Nemo 'rocks' gfx and a Nemo lighthouse from the Blitz put together by yours truly. I liked it too

As far as the France/ Germany debate, France will have much more of a chance in this one, unless the germans are being played by a highly skilled player. However, the Seigfried line is represented in the scen, as immobile units. The Maginot is made from a higher defense unit, but the Seigfeid is within German cities rather than outside them.

I am sending the business to Henrik tonite for him to set it up on his server. Game will get going after everyone has had a minute to fiddle with the game.

So noone is going to ask about the civs? Or what the deal is with those balkan states?

-FMK.

Case · October 3, 2002, 18:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Case, I havent been online in the past few days, I did't know untill I read your post that it was even in the news section. I didn't do a thing.

but

Markos must like you more then he likes me

Quote:

So noone is going to ask about the civs? Or what the deal is with those balkan states?

FMK, what is the deal with those Balkan States?

klesh · October 3, 2002, 20:30

Heh,

Weeellll since you asked Nick, Rumania, Hungary and Bulgaria will be Barbarian (minor Nations) controlled. However, they will have German units within the cities to start. The cities in question will also be in the process of building their own units.

This has the effect of allowing the Germans to 'annex' the Balkan states without a fight. As long as the Balkan cities havent produced a military unit of their own, the Germans can simply walk in. As long as they do not move their (preplaced) unit out of any city there, they will enter unmolested. Once these cities build a unit, the germans will have to fight their way in. However, these 'fight's will be rather easy as the Barbs are building only infantries.

Some Barb nationalities are represented individually, while I was also able to kill 6 birds with one stone.

-FMK.

klesh · October 3, 2002, 21:03

I put this thing together from the in-game units display. It cuts some names off on the right, and the tops of those units who are at the top of each civlopedia window. The last two units are unbuildable.

-FMK.

Iron Chancellor · October 3, 2002, 21:10

Heheheh V2 Barrage followed by Panzer VI strike...
I'm gonna love this scenario.

Dr. Nick · October 3, 2002, 22:15

Lovely... now, about Stalingrad...

The ANZAC · October 3, 2002, 23:04

Looks good, as usually

*cough*commencement PBEM*cough*

Pavlov · October 4, 2002, 01:34

Can any nation build aircraft carriers, battleships and u-boats?

Oh and what's the range of para's?

Case · October 4, 2002, 02:14

Quote:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
*cough*commencement PBEM*cough*

count me in

[I'll take the Soviets or French]

BTW Rob, if you're interested, I can send you AaA so that you can steal ideas from it.

techumseh · October 4, 2002, 03:28

*cough* Brits *cough* or Italy

Caspian · October 4, 2002, 08:01

I'd like to play an underdog nation, preferably Spain, but Turkey will do if someone has already claimed

Henrik · October 4, 2002, 08:02

Hmmm, I belive most slots are allready taken (way before this thread), but as I've said before, Germany or Italy for me

The ANZAC · October 4, 2002, 09:15

Long before this I called France or Italy, which ever Henrik doesn't want. But I am willing to share techumseh

techumseh · October 4, 2002, 09:46

FMK, it's up to you to sort this out. If you have too many people, perhaps 2 games?

Henrik · October 4, 2002, 09:48

FMK, I'm having trouble mailing you, aparently AOL thinks every message I send is automated spam mail

The ANZAC · October 4, 2002, 11:43

techumseh: i don't think we have too many people. There are 7 playable nations it seems. and so far we have 6 people

academia · October 4, 2002, 13:48

If you need a player, count me in. I´d like to test this scenario... preferably Italy

klesh · October 4, 2002, 16:28

Dont have alot of pc time today. Will have some tomorrow though.

We'll have enough gamews for eveyone who wants to test. But remember it is a test, so dont expect perfection. I dont havce alot of time these days to test everything myself.

Para's range is 5. U boats are only buildable to Germany. BB's are available to everyone except Germany (Pocket BB's) after some research, and Carriers are available after research too.

Sent it out to Henrik last night. He sent me that spam!

Henrik, I got your mail and will have to look into those things. Combat engineering didn't give the intended pop-up we talked about because we moved the Engineer into the setler spot. I guess you wont get engineer pop-ups that way.

-FMK.

Pavlov · October 5, 2002, 09:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Para's range is 5. U boats are only buildable to Germany. BB's are available to everyone except Germany (Pocket BB's) after some research, and Carriers are available after research too.
-FMK.

Cheers. Should be good knowing that for strategic reasons.

klesh · October 5, 2002, 12:52

Psst....

Stefan Härtel · October 12, 2002, 17:40

Hey, sorry to annoy you with the map again, but there are some remarks: The Turkish capital, even in '39, was Ankara, not Istanbul, as it appears on your map. Further, Belgrade should be a little more to the south (though I doubt that this is really an issue), and the Yugoslav flag should have that red communist star in the centre; finally, Albania wasn't independent, but fully intergrated into the Italian empire...

I'm a Smart@ss, I know

Stefan Härtel · October 12, 2002, 17:41

Oh, BTW, the scenario looks beautiful

klesh · October 12, 2002, 22:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Stefan Härtel
Hey, sorry to annoy you with the map again, but there are some remarks: The Turkish capital, even in '39, was Ankara, not Istanbul, as it appears on your map.

Yeah got that, thanks.

Quote:

Further, Belgrade should be a little more to the south (though I doubt that this is really an issue)

You mean in the PBEM map thats posted? The bottom of the flagpole denotes the location of the capitals.

Quote:

...and the Yugoslav flag should have that red communist star in the centre

My source here says that the flag you are refering to is the flag of the Croatian Antifascist Movement:

They list the 'Croatian Bannate (Yugoslavia) 1939-1941'
as having this flag here:

Quote:

...finally, Albania wasn't independent, but fully intergrated into the Italian empire...

Again, I have checked on this, and here they say: 1939- Albania was occupied by the Italians, officially it continued to be an independent kingdom under the Italian king Vittorio Emanuele III. The flag was changed to plain red with the arms: black eagle on a red shield. The shield was set between two black fasces, above it Skanderbeg's helmet in black. Below the shield a scroll with the motto "fert".

I mean thats close enough for me with regards to the tiny little flag on the PBEM map. Yeah?

Quote:

Oh, BTW, the scenario looks beautiful

Hey, Thanks!

-FMK.

tarpoon · October 13, 2002, 17:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Caspian
.......As far as he armour, I don't know anything about this, but we all know that their main drawback was the deployment of tanks piecemeal, rather than in combined hard hitting units, despite the fact that some of their tanks were better than those of Germany.

In fact the french didn't have a single tank formation and most of thier tanks didn't even have radios.
Also thier tanks were undermanned (the commanders had to move the turret, reload the gun and fire, give orders, use the radio (if avaible) at the same time, which mad it hard for any french tank to fight effective).

Besides this obstacle the french tanks were superior to the german tanks.
They were better armed and had more armor (except for weenie tanks like the FT17 and the R35)
Also France had the biggest tank force in the world by 1939.

I would propose to replace the R35 (which was basically useless in combat and had a top speed of 20 km/h which makes him unsuitable for being a light/fast tank) with the more modern H39 (top speed 37 km/h, stayed in service till the 1950s!) as French light tank.

Also I think its conceivable to give the French the Char du Rupture as stand in for a heavy late war tank.
The French started building it in 1922 but only managed to finish 6 by 1939. It was armed with a 75 mm Gun and 4 MGs (one got equipped with a 155 mm Gun instead of the 4 MGs).
They would've become the nightmare of the German Panzerwaffe if they wouldn't have been destroyed by Stukas on thier way to the front.
I'm quite shure that it could'Ve also been modivied in order to be effective against late war tanks. I will post a pictore of it later, when my webspace works again...

btw the scenario looks great