war, is it stratigy, or numbers?

HazieDaVampire · October 3, 2002, 13:23

When your at war, it seems the only way you can beat a force that out numbers you is with bombardment, and that takes up some unit support.

Is it possible to win when out numberd any other way, or does this game have very little stratagy when it comes to war and combat?

zulu9812 · October 3, 2002, 14:32

your 2nd option - 'moving units around'...that IS strategy

HazieDaVampire · October 3, 2002, 14:35

that still not much! This game is fun, even when i think this!

planetfall · October 3, 2002, 15:19

Strategy is developing a plan for a series of tactical conflicts.

Tactics is getting the right combination of military units in the right numbers at the point of conflict.

War == Strategy * tactics

Remember that old ditty,... for the wont of a horseshoe the horse was lost, for the wont of a horse, a battle was lost, for the wont of a battle, a kingdom was lost.

War is not just numbers, but numbers at the point of contest. Haven't you seen the AI leave too many units in a city while you battled close by and won by one unit and would have lost if they did not let units sleep in their cities?

For insight into war planning, go over to civfanatics and look at cracker's posts on starting a game right. His point is what you do and don't do in the first 1000 years determines the outcome of the entire war of conquest.

-- PF

HazieDaVampire · October 3, 2002, 15:31

i just think the player should be able to help decide the out come of a battle!
But the only way i can think of would make the game alot longer!

WarpStorm · October 3, 2002, 15:45

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
i just think the player should be able to help decide the out come of a battle!

I disagree. In Civ ,you are the Emperor/King/President/Queen/etc, not a general (unless you are playing Carthage

). As such you would delegate those kind of decisions downwards.

planetfall · October 3, 2002, 15:48

Quote:

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
i just think the player should be able to help decide the out come of a battle!
But the only way i can think of would make the game alot longer!

???

You aspire to become a grunt? Or each stroke to not be determined by random numbers but on your movement of 1 piece vs 1 piece. This game is long enough the way it is.

Why not aspire to be a modern Patton or Rommel? You surely can do better than Montgomery. Be that general that puts Napolean in his place. Who cares if Joan is furious?

Civ3 is not like rockem-sockem Arena Football, or even college football. It is more like NFL football. Sid tried to balance the game just as the NFL did football.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to prove you are the best NFL coach, not the best left tackle.

I still have very much to learn about this game, but if you want to see an example of a game that is more than numbers see:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...4&goto=newpost

I am behind in numbers of military units, but everything should work out in the end in spite of the many mistakes I made.

I don't know if they are still valid with 1.29, but civfanatics has some combat calculator tools available where you can enter the number of units of each type and see the expected outcome. It might be fun to play with those before you have your next battle so you can increase your chances of success.

-- PF

Cidifer · October 3, 2002, 15:52

that's not a very good analogy.

cgannon64 · October 3, 2002, 16:55

It really depends on the era. In Industrial age, before tanks, you need to use artillery effectively and attack strategically. In modern age, IMO, its really just tanks all the way.

Of course, as in real war, numbers is a very large factor. But you can win wars more easily, faster, and with less causualities if you use strategy. You can't just throw units at a city; you have to watch the terrian you're on, the terrain your enemy is on, if you're going across rivers, use air/artillery support, effectively used combined arms, and so on. A perfect mix of numbers and strategy will win every time.

CG

miccofl · October 3, 2002, 17:24

It requires strategy on the part of the human, the AI can only crunch numbers and that is it's why it loses more than it wins.

alva · October 3, 2002, 18:22

True, If the Ai would take part in this poll, it would opt for the second choice.
Where it would be alone so far

Changmai Beagle · October 3, 2002, 20:57

Get there the fastest with the mostest. (Robert E. Lee, IIRC)

vondrack · October 4, 2002, 03:51

OK, I hope I voted for the option I wanted to vote for... Hazie is sort of... creative... with his words...

A human can and usually will win with a superior tactics even if facing a numerically superior AI enemy. The AI must be numerically or technologically superior to beat the human, it can never win with just fine tactics.

Tiberius · October 4, 2002, 05:01

Quote:

Originally posted by vondrack
OK, I hope I voted for the option I wanted to vote for... Hazie is sort of... creative... with his words...

I suppose you didn't vote "only moving units round", unless your vote counts as 0

Grumbold · October 4, 2002, 05:59

I think Civ is far poorer in tactical options than it could be because it chose to stick to the 1 unit v 1 unit system where everybody politely lines up in an orderly queue instead of surrounding the enemy and kicking their teeth in. This means that it is far simpler than it could be, but nevertheless there are plenty of strategies that can be used to give your troops an advantage.

bongo · October 4, 2002, 06:53

Civ is of course strategy, which among other thing includes lots and lots of moving units around....

SIV · October 4, 2002, 09:07

I've noticed that CIV is more of a logistics game.
The most importent aspect in CIV warfare in my opinion is beeing able to move as many troops at the fastest time to the front.

jshelr · October 4, 2002, 13:38

"Get there the fastest with the mostest."

I believe that was firstest. Anyone here from the true South??

jshelr · October 4, 2002, 13:41

Strategy wins civ III. You can defeat AI numbers with a combination of diplomacy, unit production choice, use of your own road system, and concentrated forces.

As a matter of fact, the only time the AI can beat you is when they gang up or they have a substantial tech lead long enough to build large numbers of units you are not ready to handle yet. When they do that to you, you've been beaten by strategy, not really by numbers.