Lebensraum- 1939 PBEM Test

[Pavlov]

Originally posted by Darius871
Thanks Henrik, that clears it all up except for his rationale about the carriers. My fleet needs fighters!

*shouts* There ARE carriers in this scen. You just have to do some research first.

[techumseh]

More feedback... (you asked for it!)

I agree with Pavlov that it has a clean feel to it; professional look and uncluttered. Nice graphics all round. Fun so far.

I have two concerns:

1) Naval movement is far too slow, and will prevent historical operations. For example, the British moved a convoy from Gibraltar to Malta in 5 days, roughly half the length of the Mediterranean. IMHO, naval movement rates should be at least quadrupelled.

2) Pol Pot is right about the global warming. As you've used pollution to represent desert, I think you've got a major problem on your hands. Turning off pollution doesn't negate the effects of existing pollution. One way to mitigate pollution is to build Solar Plants. For every 2 SP's, the effects of one pollution square is negated. You could use them instead of Power Plants. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[Grothgar]

The reason London blows up is that it has a nuclear plant in it, or the WW2 equivelant and when a city with one of thsoe goes into disorder its about 50/50 wether they blow up, unless you discover fusion power, i think tis popular culture in this game.

Also i have noticed global warming, i was germany having quite a hard time and thenboom global warming, britain becomes a swamp land. Then it was easy.

I agree that the german units are too weak. I mean the Panzer II and IV are almost identical, with the panzer 4 having just one extra point of fire power. I mean surely it should be upgraded a bit more, i mean the panzer 2 had a 20mm gun, panzer 4 had 75mm, i know it was for infantry support but still, quite a tank.

I just looked and tech did a good point, However it is possible to have existing pollution without global warming. What i assume you have done is started the game on turn 1 rather than the beggining at turn 0, just incase a british city is captured and thus the british lose all their money. But if pollution is turned off on turn one then all the pollution in the world wont make global warming, but since its on turn 1 the global warming has been activated, and thus will carry on. This is your problem i think.

[klesh]

Originally posted by Case
Neutrality Declared

The peace-loving Soviet Government has declared that it will be following a policy of strict neutrality in the future. However, the government reserves the right to attack the pathetic nations of the Balkans who dare to challenge the rightful Soviet hedgemony over the Balkan peninsular.

Heh, you might want to know that those are protectorates of Germany, and attacking them (which includes the German Landser within) will result in a declaration of war.

Originally posted by Pol Pot
Sorry for me rushing into this post, but I find the german units are to weak! They are good for invading poland, but when i try to invade France, i never get throught more than the netherlands.
Even with massive air raids i can't get the british EF out my way.

We'll see what Henrik can do, perhaps wont we? Unless of course he doesnt attack France. I have playedGermany a bunch of times in SP, and have no problems whatsoever breaking through Belgium, and reaching Amiens... the city with the Maginot Line Wonder... also the city which the Maginot line units are homed to...

The German units are relatively set the same as the other units in the game. Thats one of the vibrations of this scen I tried to create.

Originally posted by yop73
Also, could you give Russia some more factories at the beginning of the game? Or allow to have factories been build at plains?

This is difficult. The thing is that I find the Soviets to be a hard civ to control in any civ scenario (or Russians for that matter). You see, you have a crapload of cities. And there are ways to make a crapload of cities pump out a ton of units. I would prefer to try to keep the Soviets week for awhile, as they truly were in '39. This way, I dont have them at the gates of Berlin after a few turns.

One thing you can do is build masses, and I mean masses of engineers, and set them in teams. Give them all the same command (up to 3 units I think) and you'll get things done alot faster.

Originally posted by Darius871
Hmmm, I don't know what to tell you guys but I loaded the version here and London still blew up...

Um, yeah. Neither London nor anywhere else should be exploding or under unrest. Report all of this type of thing, please.

Darius, the latest game (mine) has the Brits starting off with their finances set at 20% Tax, 50% Science and 30% Lux. Is this what yours starts at?

Originally posted by Darius871
Thanks Henrik, that clears it all up except for his rationale about the carriers. My fleet needs fighters!

You'll get them, but they are far down the naval tech tree.

Minesweeping--> Warfleet Reconstruction--> Fleet Air Arm (Carriers).

Maybe I should give the Brits one or 2 to start?

Originally posted by techumseh

I agree with Pavlov that it has a clean feel to it; professional look and uncluttered. Nice graphics all round. Fun so far.

Hey, thanks!

1) Naval movement is far too slow, and will prevent historical operations. For example, the British moved a convoy from Gibraltar to Malta in 5 days, roughly half the length of the Mediterranean. IMHO, naval movement rates should be at least quadrupelled.

Sure, I'll agree with everyone they need increasing. Perhaps x3, or who knows, maybe 4, but I'll have to look into it.

Originally posted by techumseh
2) Pol Pot is right about the global warming. As you've used pollution to represent desert, I think you've got a major problem on your hands. Turning off pollution doesn't negate the effects of existing pollution. One way to mitigate pollution is to build Solar Plants. For every 2 SP's, the effects of one pollution square is negated. You could use them instead of Power Plants. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Brilliant! I had had that reported earlier, but was POSITIVE i had detoggled pollution off. I went into the game and started to think that perhaps my editor wasnt working properly... I had no idea pre-existing pollution had any effect whatsoever. Yes, I use the pollution tile as merely a graphical thing (which allowed me to conserve one terrain type for riverbeds). Basically, this feature prevents AI (if any) units from going off into nowhere land. Keeps em in the fight. It's bad news alright, but nothing that I shan't be able to handle. I dig the idea of Solar Plants. Just might do it.


Also, the Baltic States will go to the Minor Nations in the release version. Give the Soviets something to do. In other news, I watched the Soviets capture Helsinki right in time during the historical Winter War in my SP game of this.

-FMK.

[klesh]

I thought I had this done to the file before, but it appears I was mistaken. Apparently, Henrik is certain that once he hex-edits pollution out of the file, pre-existing pollutioon will have no effect, though the pollution icon will increase, and the text pop-up will occur. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

-FMK.

( I trust you H, I just wanna be certain.)


Edit:

Originally published in the multi-authored hex-editing document
...amount of times that a global temperature rising has been happening this far in the game. 7F is maximum and will make the whole world a big swamp when the next global temperature rising occurs. 80 or higher will prevent any global rising from happening at all.

Well there you have it. All I need is a fancy re-occuring pop-up text with some relavency and away we go.

[Pavlov]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
Well there you have it. All I need is a fancy re-occuring pop-up text with some relavency and away we go.

Since you didn't ask me for help I thought I'd step in

Superheroesque: "Once again Capitan Paulov saves the day"

Suicidal: "Another month of our worthless lives disappear. What's the point?"

Crazy: "Another flew over the cuckoo's nest"

Serious (sort of): "Scientists all over the world continue developing new weapons of war"

[Henrik]

Originally posted by Darius871
Hmmm, I don't know what to tell you guys but I loaded the version here and London still blew up (at Prince). Anyhow I'm sure the version I had is the same as the one here, since SunTzu gave it to me and he got it here. Is there something wrong with my Civ2 or something?

In that case it seems FMK forgot to send me the new scn file @ FMK

As soon as I get the one where this has been fixed I'll upload it to the server.

[The ANZAC]

I think we screwed up something as I am starting in october and not september is that supposed to be? Also I have tons of cities in disorder.

[SunTzu]

in this PBEM, i'm britain, and well my whole country is in disorder, London didn't blow up though....well not yet atleast

[Darius871]

*shouts* There ARE carriers in this scen. You just have to do some research first.

Aw s**t, you're right, I must have looked right past it. Nevermind, although it would be my suggestion to make it closer on the tech tree.

The reason London blows up is that it has a nuclear plant in it, or the WW2 equivelant and when a city with one of thsoe goes into disorder its about 50/50 wether they blow up

Well of course I knew that Gary, I just wondered why. What do I look like here?

Um, yeah. Neither London nor anywhere else should be exploding or under unrest. Report all of this type of thing, please.

Darius, the latest game (mine) has the Brits starting off with their finances set at 20% Tax, 50% Science and 30% Lux. Is this what yours starts at?

40%, 50%, and 10% respectively. I downloaded the scen at the very beginning of this thread, if there's another version I must be blind as a bat.

[The ANZAC]

*bump* again should my first turn as France be happening in October, 1939

[Grothgar]

Sorry darius, but you know i just had to check, surprising how much these things slip people by.

And i also concuur that normaly the soviets take helsinki in the Winter War time period, its not exactly hard though

Also FMK i do like how you have made the hungarian and romanian cities have a german unit in them, which means only the germans can take them without a fight, very clever,and i noticed you did the same with ireland. With a little bit of unit swapping i could take ireland in one turn helps a lot.

Also i agree with everyone else saying it looks nice on the eye, and the railroad graphic is very nice. And yes fleet movement should be doubled at least.

[Case]

I agree totally with the calls to increase naval movement. While you're at it, replace the Pocket Battleship graphic - Pocket Batleships only had two turrents

BTW, this is a bit geeky, but you're using Bren Carriers the wrong way. Historically, these were issued to British infantry battalions for the purposes of carrying the heavy weapons (machine guns and mortars) and for scouting. They were never widely used as APCs, and British troops generally traveled in trucks.

[SunTzu]

Anzac, since everyone has ignored you i'll answer.
I'm not sure lol, your turn will be in October if the Soviets start their turn in a new month......

[David Floyd]

Minesweeping--> Warfleet Reconstruction--> Fleet Air Arm (Carriers).

Maybe I should give the Brits one or 2 to start?

Erm, the British had 7 carriers at the outbreak of war...(IIRC) Hermes, Eagle, Argus, Courageous, Glorious, Furious, and Ark Royal. The names are off the top of my head so I could be mistaken, but yes, you should give Britain at least a few carriers.

[techumseh]

And the French had one as well.

[Case]

and the Germans had a half finished one

[techumseh]

Both the Germans and Italians started construction/conversion of a carrier during the war, so allowing them to research carriers would be historical. However both Britain and France started the war with carriers.

[David Floyd]

and the Germans had a half finished one

Ya, the Graf Zeppelin, and they started on the Peter Strasser also I believe. As neither were used, I personally don't think they should be represented.

Same with the French carrier (it's name escapes me right now).

The British carriers, though, played a major part in the war, in terms of getting sunk by U-Boats, convoy escorts, transporting aircraft, and very notably the attack on Taranto which disabled 3 Italian BBs, so I think they should be represented.

Personally, I think events should trigger some sort of escort carrier midway through, probably starting in 1942, as those were vital in the Battle of the Atlantic.

[Darius871]

Ya, the Graf Zeppelin, and they started on the Peter Strasser also I believe. As neither were used, I personally don't think they should be represented.

Same with the French carrier (it's name escapes me right now).

However this scenario does seem to have an alternate history context, so maybe they still could be included.

[Caspian]

Who's turn is it anyway?

[Pavlov]

ANZAC

[klesh]

So nice to see all this activity! Give me a minute here to address the questions...

-FMK.

[klesh]

Originally posted by The ANZAC
Should my first turn as France be happening in October, 1939

France's turn is right before Germany's, but since this scenario starts with Germany (halfway through the september round of turns), France's first turn doesnt happen untill October. Tried to make this clear on my first post.




Also, everyone experiencing disorder:
I have gone though and lowered the upkeep costs of all buildings, therefore freeing up more revenue to be set for luxuries at thet start fo the game. Already went trough all the civs and fiddled with each. That should solve the problems for the release version. For now, you'll just have to deal with it for the first few turns.
Dowload these rules.txt, to be sure you are dealing with the latest file.

Originally posted by Case
I agree totally with the calls to increase naval movement. While you're at it, replace the Pocket Battleship graphic - Pocket Batleships only had two turrents

lol, I just picked one that looked cool. You, Scott and Anzac are the big ship guys, right? Set me up with what you favour.


RE: Carriers.
I will give the British and French the ability to build carriers, though not the progress techs leading to them. Those would open the entire naval tree for them. France will receive one carrier and the British 3. Now, where shall they go?

Originally posted by Case
BTW, this is a bit geeky, but you're using Bren Carriers the wrong way. Historically, these were issued to British infantry battalions for the purposes of carrying the heavy weapons (machine guns and mortars) and for scouting. They were never widely used as APCs, and British troops generally traveled in trucks.

Yes, it is merely a 'Universal Carrier' as termed by the army. Certainly not very good as an APC, as it wouldn't fit that many guys in it. So what to do? I wanted the Brits to have something stubborn and mobile, but without much offensive ability. And plus, i made the gfx. I don't mind getting too geeky, in fact I dig it. Any suggestions?

I think that's it... lemme post and see if I missed anything.

-FMK.

[klesh]

Okay here are those rules. Note the number at the very top of the text in the file. 2. This is how we'll keep track of who's got what. I'll change the number as I update.

Ok, with the ships. The landing crafts are supposed to move slowly (5), but carry alot of troops (8). The large freighter is supposed to move fast (14), but be limited in its capacity(3). All the rest have been trippled.

-FMK.

[The ANZAC]

Government Collapses!!

After crippling strikes and riots in nearly all of France's major cities (hint hint FMK, I thought the fix was supposed to do something ) the fgovernment of Paul Reynaud has collapsed and a new parliamentary government was formed under Prime minister Gerard d'Ansaque. On first actions in office he has stated he will not declare war on Germany, however troops have been called up to defend Belgium at its manarch's request. No threat is meant to Germany.

[Case]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
lol, I just picked one that looked cool. You, Scott and Anzac are the big ship guys, right? Set me up with what you favour.

I've attached ANZACs fine pocket battleship.

France will receive one carrier and the British 3. Now, where shall they go?

France: Brest
Britain: 1 each in Scotland, Portsmouth and Gibraltar.

Yes, it is merely a 'Universal Carrier' as termed by the army. Certainly not very good as an APC, as it wouldn't fit that many guys in it. So what to do? I wanted the Brits to have something stubborn and mobile, but without much offensive ability. And plus, i made the gfx. I don't mind getting too geeky, in fact I dig it. Any suggestions?

The Bren Carrier unit is a good proxy for the tough and highely mechanised British infantry. However, the problem is that every British infantry unit had heaps of Bren/Universal carriers...
Perhaps you could get rid of one of the British leg infantry units.

BTW, the British commando unit should be wearing a green cap - only the paratroopers wore red (the SAS wore beige)

[The ANZAC]

Thanks for the proposing of my unit Case

In other news, France would like to ask Britain to keep her units contained in their fortifications in France or have them withdrawn to Britain, whichever is easier. But France does not want them clogging up the Belgian and Channel roadways.

[techumseh]

I'll ge out of town until Sunday. Will that pose a problem?

[David Floyd]

France will receive one carrier and the British 3. Now, where shall they go?

France: Brest
Britain: 1 each in Scotland, Portsmouth and Gibraltar.

Actually, in my opinion, I would put one carrier in Portsmouth and 2 in Scotland.

A French carrier in Brest is fine.

With regards to allowing German carriers in an alternate history context, I see no problem with this, but in my opinion, there should be some penalty for Germany to focus on their navy. Historically, they did not possess the resources to maintain such a large army and build up their navy, and I think this should be somehow reflected in the game.