Bananas Uni... er... DIA MEMBERS UNITE!

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 06:52

Ok, as most members should know, I sent out PMs requesting that our leadership (Thud and Spiffor, namely) being the process of organizing the party for elections. Since they haven't responded (both of them must be out of town or busy) and I actually haven't heard from either of them in a while, I'm just going to start this thread myself - leaving the seat warm for Thud when he returns

As I mentioned to most you already in PMs, we need to ORGANIZE for the upcoming election. Nominations are DUE BY THIS COMING SATURDAY and we currently have TWO candidates on the ballot...

We need to figure out the following for EACH RACE on the ballot:

1. Whether someone from DIA will be running and, if so, who.

2. If no-one from DIA will be running which candidate the DIA will choose to support. It is even conceivalbe in multiple races that the DIA and the Hawks will be supporting the same obvious candidate (imagine that!?

). I'd wager that the grand share of exceptional candidates are independents anyhow and although they likely won't be joining the DIA anytime soon, I'm sure they wouldn't be complaining if we all voted for them because we honestly thought they were the best person for the job

. We need to keep our minds open for that.

CRITICALLY... (and this will help us with endorsements/who to support AND with the platforms of our own candidates) we need to establish something along the lines of a party platform for the race that is (1) senisible and broadly appealing over dogmatic and (2) still in line with our principles and strategic outlook. I know I have some of my own thoughts on this matter, but I think I'll give some people the chance to chime in on that first (especially since I'm a good bit more "moderate/centrist" of a DIA-type than many of the more committed pacifists

).

Feel free to use PMs to communicate with myself or anyone else if you don't want to clutter this thread with everything that needs to be said.

Time is of the esense here, fellow builders - the time for nominations to close is drawing near.

Those of you interested in running for the DIA or gaining the support of this party are highly encouraged to post here in order to make that known and the rest are encouraged just as much to discuss such things!

So, for peace, for justice, yada, yada, yada, start talking!

----

Btw, most of you should already have a member list if you want to PM people or offer nominations for DIA people for positions - I provided it to you in my last PM. It's also publicly listed in the DIA Renewal thread (about 3-4 days back I think). I figure we might get some new people in here over the next week, so we can go ahead and post a full list including new people when they get here

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 06:55

Here's a post we can edit with who is either running or we are thinking of supporting for each position:

President:
Ninot (Independent)?
WhiteBandit (Independent)?
MrWhereItsAt (Independent)?

Vice President:
Arnelos (DIA)?

Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Nimitz (DIA)?
Togas (Independent)?

Supreme Military Commander:
Aggie (Independent)?

Minister of Economics:
Reddawg (Independent)?

City Planner:
E_T (Independent)?
zeit (Independent)?
History Guy (Hawk)?

Minister of Public Works:
GhengisFarb (Independent)?

Minister of Science:
Thud (DIA)?
Duddha (Hawk)?
ThePlagueRat (Independent)?

Minister of Imperial Expansion:
Meshelic (Hawk)?
Apocalypse (Independent)?

U.N. Representative:
Apocalypse (Independent)?

------------

This post will be edited as the discussion continues.

Actual DIA members will be in italics, all other candidates for now are listed, but not in italics. We, as a party, can decide which ones to support.

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 06:57

This post is where we can edit a working draft of the party platform or shared objectives for the coming term:

THE DIA PARTY PLATFORM FOR TERM V:

....

Ninot · October 7, 2002, 10:24

Well, im an independant but former DIA, and you already know many of my sentiments towards what out future needs to be

but i suggest if you want a good platform for Term 5, it would involve shying away from military advances, in favor of building up our current holdings. If a Hawk wants to oppose this view, let him, but the DIA does not need to encompass warmongering views anymore, not like back in the day.

Also, spreading duties to governors instead of a single post will allow for more building up rather than general plans for war. If we can push for ammendments that finally give powers to governors, building up will come more naturally.

Our country is primarily illiterate, and it is of my opinion that a tech lead will win us this game, no matter how we win it. If we keep bashing threw militarily, without paying heed to the needs of building up, eventually one of our enemies may possess military power superior to ours, and then we are done for.

So the DIA platform should be for building right now. It is the best time, with our upcoming palace jump and FP, and we don't need any more land at all really.

btw, should i run for President (like I've hinted i might), it will be as an independant, but I'll take any DIA support i can get

MrWhereItsAt · October 7, 2002, 10:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Ninot
btw, should i run for President (like I've hinted i might), it will be as an independant, but I'll take any DIA support i can get

Best of both worlds, eh?

I don't really belong in party threads, but your sentiments would be the sort of ones I vote for come election day.

jdjdjd · October 7, 2002, 13:32

Ninot is correct, we should push for building up the infrastructure of the held lands. Not only do we have a new Palace and FP to build, but also, there is a chance we enter our Golden Age soon.

Since Togas has already committed to running again for Foreign Minister, might I suggest that Nimitz choose another slot to run for. Togas is a strong candidate right now, and probably unbeatable. Economics may be an influential position. Nimitz, maybe you could run there instead.

UnOrthOdOx · October 7, 2002, 13:40

Ah, just like the good old days.

DIA thread with no DIA members discussing the topic within...so nice to see the DIA insisting on keeping the party system alive.

Inverse Icarus · October 7, 2002, 14:55

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Ah, just like the good old days.

DIA thread with no DIA members discussing the topic within...so nice to see the DIA insisting on keeping the party system alive.

come on, didn't you know the DIA was really Spiffor and his army of DLs?

do you really think we have 200 people in this demogame?

UnOrthOdOx · October 7, 2002, 15:56

It is rather odd that with all the members the DIA boasts of, the game has been nothing short of a Hawk paradise to this point...

jdjdjd · October 7, 2002, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
It is rather odd that with all the members the DIA boasts of, the game has been nothing short of a Hawk paradise to this point...

Its quotes like this from the Neo-Nazi, unltra-conservative, right wing that has caused me to join the DIA.

And if you weren't so busy filling the threads with such nonsense as this post, you would see that the DIA has been very influential, and was the reason the first war with France ever came to be and succeeded. (Remember, Ninot was DIA before he jumpled ship and went independent....interestingly enough the same ship he hopes to get a ride back to the palace on.)

And don't think we forgot that you claimed to be independent when you ran for VP, only now to take out your SS Uniform, and goose-step down Main Street, Termina.

Oh, of course, I'm just roleplaying you Imperialist Pig.

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Ah, just like the good old days.

DIA thread with no DIA members discussing the topic within...so nice to see the DIA insisting on keeping the party system alive.

The truly sad reality is that this is unfortunately true... while the DIA has a rather sizable following, traditionally its level of organization and its active membership have both lagged far behind.

By even bothering to start this thread, I'm already acting outside what has sadly come to be expected in the form of "organization" from the DIA

It is my intention that the DIA will not be so vulnerable such criticism in the future and those, such as the Hawks, who mock our attempts and are confident in their own organizational supremacy are merely playing into our hands with their smug overconfidence

(jdjdjd has hit the nail on the head there...)

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 19:54

Alrighty then... citing the [almost] lack of discussion on the issue off the platform, I'll just go ahead and kick of the discussion and hope others join in...

Here's my initial concept for things to go on the platform:

FIRST ITEM

There seems to be a wide consensus (short of the truly committed warmongers) that Apolytonia needs to go into an extended period of peaceful development following the end of the American campaign. We have at least 17 turns before the peace treay with France is up for re-negotiation, so the Hawks' suggestion to soon go tromping after them is unlikely to resonate with voters. Even in the Hawks' own threads, the argument has centered around waiting for the advent of 'Military Tactics' and Cavalry to go about that conflict.

As such, we have an advantage on this issue and, by all means, we should use it for all that it is worth. This should be the leading point on our platform for Term V. That the bulk of at least the early portion of the term should be spent entirely (or as near to entirely as possible) on peaceful infrastructure development.

SECOND ITEM

Attached to the first item, it would seem that a switch to republic would be conducive to that goal. We should attempt to switch to republic as soon as it is economical to do so, that we might come to enjoy the increased trade under that system of government.

THIRD ITEM

As part of our peaceful infrastructure development during much of the Middle Age, it should be a primary goal to develop the dominant culture in the known world. We can make conquests of foreign cities through our superior culture if this effort is successful even while our military is still be updated for the next period of possible conflict at the end of the Middle Age.

FOURTH ITEM

We should press for using this period of peaceful infrastructure develop to focus especially on the development of scientific city improvements and the maximizing of trade within our empire. If done successfully, it will finally be possible for Apolytonia to research its own technologies without having to purchase all technologies from foreign powers.

-------

I encourage comment from DIA members. We need to ensure that we have something of an agreement on whatever platform we end up adopting for Term V... a platform we can use in both these elections AND in the upcoming term in the Senate.

Sean · October 7, 2002, 20:40

jdjdjd, what are you running for then ;-)

But seriously, The DIA, needs to stand in as many positions as possible. Particularly members that have something of a profile in the Democracy Game forum.

Sean.

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 22:28

I've been playing with a run for Vice President or Public Works, but my decision in that regard is largely pending on what the incumbents (or others with their status) intend to do...

A lot of stuff in terms of who is running for what is waiting for the second shoe to drop on what the incumbents missing over the weekend are going to do (run for re-election of their current post, run for something else, or not run). Once that's out of the way, I have a hunch a lot of people are going to jump into the races (because an idea of what the political map looks like will finally materialize).

That's just my hunch, though

.

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 23:09

Well, as I somewhat predicted, when some of the big pieces that were in the "uncertainty" territory fell into place, it was like the first dominos knocking down other dominos...

WhiteBandit (currently Minister of Public Works) is running for President.

GhengisFarb (current Minister of Imperial Expansion, who was considering either President or Public Works) is running for Public Works (now that WhiteBandit is running for President, almost for sure).

Apocalypse (currently VP, who was considering U.N. Rep or going executive again) is running for U.N. Representative

adaMada is not running, staying as Vice Minister of Foreign Affairs

Aro is not running, staying as Geographer

I am now running for Vice President

The top (and perhaps only) thing that would cause a political earthquake now would be if Togas, Aggie, or Reddawg decided to run for another post or to not run for re-election... then everyone would be scrambling to see who would run for their spots and this entire newly established "stability" would completely collapse

Otherwise, however, this looks like it has the signs of becoming stable...

So if you were someone thinking about running for an office and wanted to know where the people currently talking about it were going to end up before jumping in yourself, THIS IS THE TIME!

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 23:16

If I am indeed running for Vice President, then I'd like to see someone from DIA run for Imperial Expansion. If Thud isn't going to run for re-election for Minister of Science, I'd also like to see someone from DIA attempt to succeed him in that post.

We should at least have people on the ballot to maintain our honor

Arnelos · October 7, 2002, 23:47

Ok, Apocalypse just decided to run for Minister of Science in the event that no-one (I assume he means other than Duddha) decides to run for the post. That leaves the door open for any of you that want to still run (or for Thud to re-appear from obscurity to run for re-election), but means Apocalypse might cover the gap if no-one else runs.

Zero · October 8, 2002, 00:45

doors are open for which position?

Zero · October 8, 2002, 00:48

u all know hawks are interested in war with the french again... This is gonna be problematic for our own goals as DIA, since we want to go republic and trigger GA shortly after american war. This should be addressed before election so we can plan abnout it

Arnelos · October 8, 2002, 00:58

Calc II,

As I stated in one of my posts, I think the key argument against going to war with France very soon is that our treaty with them was just re-negotiated during the turnchat we just held... this means it will be at least three more turnchats before the treaty even comes up for re-negotiation again. In general, it would be bad to declare war on the French and violate a standing peace treaty in order to do so, especially if we're in Republic.

Within that time, it's quite likely that we will switch to Republic. Once in Republic, going to war with anyone by starting the war ourselves means we need to make the war quick.

The other reason to argue against a war with France is that the Hawks, in their own discussion thread on the topic, have been arguing about how it's not a good idea if all we can throw at them are knights. The growing consensus is that we should wait for Cavalry before attacking the French, which is quite a ways off - and long enough to have the period of peaceful development so desired by those of us in the DIA.

Inverse Icarus · October 8, 2002, 01:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos The other reason to argue against a war with France is that the Hawks, in their own discussion thread on the topic, have been arguing about how it's not a good idea if all we can throw at them are knights. The growing consensus is that we should wait for Cavalry before attacking the French, which is quite a ways off - and long enough to have the period of peaceful development so desired by those of us in the DIA.

knights will work against France, America, and Persia. It's Germany and Rome we don't want to fight with knights.

We'll have to devise a quick system of wars to eliminate them before they can amass allies. shouldn't be too hard.

UnOrthOdOx · October 8, 2002, 10:14

Quote:

Originally posted by jdjdjd

Its quotes like this from the Neo-Nazi, unltra-conservative, right wing that has caused me to join the DIA.

And if you weren't so busy filling the threads with such nonsense as this post, you would see that the DIA has been very influential, and was the reason the first war with France ever came to be and succeeded. (Remember, Ninot was DIA before he jumpled ship and went independent....interestingly enough the same ship he hopes to get a ride back to the palace on.)

And don't think we forgot that you claimed to be independent when you ran for VP, only now to take out your SS Uniform, and goose-step down Main Street, Termina.

Oh, of course, I'm just roleplaying you Imperialist Pig.

Large talk from a skirt wearing peacenick who once founded STOP. Let us get one thing straight, never at one point during my campaign did I claim to be independant, and at no point have I denied the fact that I was a Hawk. I specifically ran for VP, though, as that positions makes no decisions to effect the game itself, it only carries out the ministers order when the game is played. I ran the office with a strict hand, and one that organized a floundering nation to bring it into order.

I suspect that you spent a few days too long wandering the jungle eating Fruit Bats and enjoying the company of your Monkey's, that would explain the obvious lack of memory and addled thought processes that are apparent with your every word. If you would care to look back into our past you would see it was I who brought about the war on France. Taking command for the injured MrWhereitsat, I immediately declared war on France and sacked Paris. Here, for your convenience, oh confused one:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=59684

Perhaps you should go back to wearing these silly things

and opposing politics. Or shall we run you from town again? At least that way we could get an entertaining letter now and again.

And, yes, this is roleplaying for the logically challenged.

jdjdjd · October 8, 2002, 11:57

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

Large talk from a skirt wearing peacenick who once founded STOP. Let us get one thing straight, never at one point during my campaign did I claim to be independant, and at no point have I denied the fact that I was a Hawk. I specifically ran for VP, though, as that positions makes no decisions to effect the game itself, it only carries out the ministers order when the game is played. I ran the office with a strict hand, and one that organized a floundering nation to bring it into order.

I suspect that you spent a few days too long wandering the jungle eating Fruit Bats and enjoying the company of your Monkey's, that would explain the obvious lack of memory and addled thought processes that are apparent with your every word. If you would care to look back into our past you would see it was I who brought about the war on France. Taking command for the injured MrWhereitsat, I immediately declared war on France and sacked Paris. Here, for your convenience, oh confused one:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=59684

Perhaps you should go back to wearing these silly things

and opposing politics. Or shall we run you from town again? At least that way we could get an entertaining letter now and again.

And, yes, this is roleplaying for the logically challenged.

I meant to say American War with respect to Ninot.

Now thats not fair, you know I have a soft spot for those hats....

And lets not forget, who was it that saved you from the damned French, and also who dragged that lousy underground paper with no name of yours out of obscurity and into national prominence?!

Now stop cluttering DIA threads with such nonsensical right winged rhetoric.

Once again, that was role play, of course everyone knows the Jungle Gazette was never an underground newspaper.

Now back to serious matters. Sorry for cluttering this thread with anti-Hawk sentiments.

GePap · October 8, 2002, 12:04

Our most important issue currently must be opposition to any wars with France in the future.

The war wth America is a given, if just to keep Boston and NY out of Aztec hands. But fater that there are many possible things to do:

Build more cathedrals, markets, harbors.
Build a new Palace and a FP.
Build up and finish colonizing Uber Isle
Explore and find the 'los' civs before anyone else.

All of these projects wil give us greater returns for our energy than a war with France and preparations for one. We must make sure to push this point and nip in the bud this war with france talk.

Inverse Icarus · October 8, 2002, 12:08

A war with France may give us another great leader, which could be used to rush a palace / fp

UnOrthOdOx · October 8, 2002, 12:14

jdjdjd,

I just had to dig up those awesome old hats. As far as cluttering DIA threads, I for one actually WANT to hear different opinions, most of the time I am just trying to keep the thread on page one long enough for someone to speak up.

Arnelos, good luck organizing the DIA. Look over here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=62450
and post your opinions on how to organize debates between parties. It can be done with all the party rhetoric and fun as jdjdjd and I just demonstrated.

realpolitic · October 8, 2002, 12:43

Is this where I join the DIA?

Arnelos · October 8, 2002, 13:14

Quote:

Originally posted by realpolitic
Is this where I join the DIA?

It could be that, sure!

EDIT: The great irony to this is that it makes realpolitic the first person to officially join the DIA since Calc II and myself

Arnelos · October 8, 2002, 13:16

Quote:

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Arnelos, good luck organizing the DIA. Look over here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=62450
and post your opinions on how to organize debates between parties. It can be done with all the party rhetoric and fun as jdjdjd and I just demonstrated.

I know that thread is there

I've just been letting it run its course for now... I figure someone like me can get more involved once you all have the rules all worked out and do your fun little banana peels demonstration to work out any last problems

jdjdjd · October 8, 2002, 20:57

Welcome realpolitic.

Un, I know your a reporter at heart and want to hear all sides. And thats why you want this debate forum, which I'm sure the DIA can have thoughtful participation in.

Of course that would be left to party leadership, but I am offering to the leadership my services in presenting DIA positions.