City demands its own goods ( :confused: )

[-Jrabbit]

In my current game, I've been going through the usual deal with Oil as supplied by many, demanded by none. Once I began researching Automobile, demand appeared in 3 of my cities -- Albany, Philly, and Balt. Fine.

Next turn, I completed a caravan in Albany and noticed that it could also supply Oil.

1. Is this unusual? I've never noticed it before.

2. Can this situation be exploited?

In case it matters, the city location is (1,2,7)...

[Scouse Gits]

I have had this occur with other commodities - and failed to exploit it (not saying it can't be done - but I tried and failed) - I see Oil so rarely I haven't noticed it happening to Oil

SG[1]

[debeest]

I'd go so far as to say this happens often, with many commodities. I'm doubtful about the value of exploiting it, since distance between cities is one of the multipliers that goes into the calculation of delivery bonus. If the distance is zero, the multiplier is (0+10), and that's pretty low. And if the producing city demands it, there's usually some other city that demands it too.

[JCP]

It happens sometimes, for different goods.
I share others opinions about exploiting : doubt but may only favor cross exchanges.

[-Jrabbit]

I'm thinking that, for a city located on the North-South "0" meridian, you might be able to exit eastbound, circle and re-enter the city from its west (oher) side, and have maximum distance.

Seems like I saw RAH mention something of the sort in some long-ago thread. Ring a bell with anyone?

[samson]

No, that doesn't work. First off, while a city may supply and demand the same commodity, it will not accept its own caravan or freight. A city cannot establish a trade route with itself, doesn't matter where you build it or what you name it.

Secondly, the algorithm which calculates distance for caravan bonuses knows all about the "0" line. Two cities on opposite sides of the line will be recognized as only two squares apart.

The maximum East-West distance between two cities is half the greatest horizontal coordinate, for example: on a medium map, this value is 50. On the North-South axis, however, it is the full extent of the map. The farthest distance possible on a ROUND map is between two points located on opposite poles (North/South) which are 180 degrees from each other on the East-West axis. On a medium map, this distance would be 71 CDUs (Civ Distance Units, which are not the same as movement units, by the way).

[Cyrion]

Originally posted by samson
No, that doesn't work. First off, while a city may supply and demand the same commodity, it will not accept its own caravan or freight. A city cannot establish a trade route with itself, doesn't matter where you build it or what you name it.

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere on Poly that if you establish a trade link with a None caravan, then the city will get a trade route with itself!

As I didn't try it, and am not even sure I read it, I wonder whether that's correct or not??

[Thoddy]

Originally posted by Cyrion


I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere on Poly that if you establish a trade link with a None caravan, then the city will get a trade route with itself!

You can check this feature with the events created caravans at the Red Front scen.

[Cyrion]

Or bribe a caravan closer to a foreign city than to one of yours, I know, I'm just being lazy...

[rah]

The only way to exploit it is to move it to a another city (on the preferred path connected by road/rail) and rehome it and bring it back. If you take it too far, the demand will probably have changed again before you can return it, unless you have rails and some serious ship chaining going.

[samson]

I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere on Poly that if you establish a trade link with a None caravan, then the city will get a trade route with itself!

Hey! I just tried this and it works. A NONE caravan actually establishes two trade routes with itself, one as the source and one as the destination. The routes suffer the same-civ penalty, of course, and cannot get the road/railroad 2X modifier, but it does benefit from both an airport (50%) and superhighways (50%). This nets out to make it equal to an unimproved route to a foreign city of the same size.

The delivery bonus is quite small due to the distance between the "cities" being zero.

Very interesting. I love it when I'm wrong about something, it's a chance to learn. Thanks, Cyrion.

[-Jrabbit]

Thanks, everyone, for once again showing me how little I know.

[Cyrion]

You're welcome Samson !

I'm feeling quite proud right now : I was able to provide an unknown info to one of the living legend of Poly...

And I'm glad you were able to verify it too, so I won't need to!

[Caesar the Great]

after so long there are still things we don't know about the game...

[Scouse Gits]

Another great samson catch - must try it!! It makes bribing foreign caravans a potentially valuable activity...

SG[1]

[rah]

Bribing foreign caravans is usually not profitable. They're too expensive in terms of what you'll get as a trade bonus, and that the routes they set will be minimal.

[samson]

Not my catch, SG. Cyrion knew about it.

Not sure yet if it's really valuable though. Even for a super-trade city, the self-trade routes will pay less than one to even the most minimal of foreign cities, until it has an airport.

One thing that's interesting about this is that while it establishes two routes, the NONE caravan ties up only one supply commodity. This leaves two commodities available (in a virgin city) for delivery. The trick then is to find a foreign city (preferably off-continent) which demands both of these commodities. When delivered to that city, the first establishes a trade route and the second replaces that route and will (usually) free up the first commodity for resupply. This allows a continuous supply of commodities in your source city, the key to a successful trading strategy.