new building improvements

ak · October 12, 2002, 20:10

Here's my ranking of the new build improvements best suited to my playing style (it's the economy, stupid):

Stock Exchange
Civil Defense
Commercial Docks
Radar Towers
Outposts
Airfields

I wonder how it may change after playing a few games of PTW.

The Internet wonder will be a doozy and possibly worth saving a leader for.

Any comments?

Tassadar500 · October 12, 2002, 20:29

What do you mean by its the economy stupid

ak · October 12, 2002, 20:33

It was a famous political rallying cry for the Clinton administration during the roaring 90's implying that "it's all about the economy". Sorry, I shouldn't assume the international community would be familiar with it.

Carver · October 12, 2002, 20:50

Are civil defence and commercial docks in? What do they do?

ak · October 12, 2002, 20:55

According to the GameSpy Review:

"Also available to everyone are a few new city improvements and worker abilities. Commercial Docks will make coastal cities more profitable by adding one extra unit of trade to all water squares within the city's radius. The Stock Exchange increases the money earned from a city's taxes by 50%. If you want to build Wall Street, which adds interest to the money in your treasury, you now need five Stock Exchanges instead of five Banks. Stock Exchanges also means Corporation isn't just an empty step on the way to researching tech for advanced military units.

Radio also used to be an empty technology advance that served only as a stepping stone to get to Advanced Flight -- unless you wanted Helicopters, you could just as well skip it. But in the Play the World expansion, Radio allows you to build Civil Defenses in your cities, adding a 50% defense bonus to all units in the city. It also allows your workers to build Radar Towers on the map. Radar Towers are the analogue to Sensor Arrays from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri. They give all friendly units within two squares a 25% attack and defense bonus. However, building a Radar Tower uses up the Worker. Workers can similarly "sacrifice" themselves to build Airfields, which serve as staging points for aircraft, and Outposts, which extend line of sight by two squares. However, an Outpost on a hill will see out three hexes and an Outpost on a mountain will see out four hexes. The new Great Wonder is the Internet, which immediately builds a Research Lab in every city on the continent, substantially boosting a tribe's research."

Carver · October 12, 2002, 20:58

Gracias. I wonder if our cities will get that wooden fence from SMAC around them now.

1 · October 12, 2002, 21:52

A 50% bonus in city defense? That's insane. Now metros will have 200% defense? (I honestly don't remember their base def, I just know its high) And on a hill, it will give ANOTHER 50%. AND, across a river, ANOTHER 25%. I wish the computer knew how to exploit things like that. But since they don't, I think the 50% defense bonus will be unbalancing when it comes to the AI, especially since it doesn't even bombard. Against the human.... it will give a much needed boost in defensive power, because humans know how to use its units very precisely on the offense. Just my 2 cents. BTW... does anyone know if radar towers within 2 squares of a city, add its additional 25% as well to the city defenders?

ak · October 15, 2002, 01:56

Don't know for sure, but in theory you'd think a city garrison would be treated just like a stack outside and receive the radar benefit. Heck, London would have been in worse shape if not for the coastal radar in WWII.

WarpStorm · October 15, 2002, 08:33

If I'm calculating things correctly, a maximally defensive MI can have a defense of 67.5. Cool! Or not, if it's not mine.

jim_steer · October 15, 2002, 08:44

wow 67.5.
Bet it will still get beaten by a rifleman half the time

ak · October 15, 2002, 11:22

You would almost have to use lots of bombardment to soften the hit points. Pure Tank raids on cities may be a thing of the past.

Nyl · October 15, 2002, 15:18

How do the defensive percentages stack? Do you add up the percentages then apply it to the unit's D rating, or do you apply them individually in some arbitrary order?

statusperfect · October 15, 2002, 16:31

A warrior with two +50% bonuses gets + 1 defense.

50% of 1 is 0.5. 1 + 0.5 + 0.5 = 2

ZargonX · October 16, 2002, 00:16

Does anyone know with which tech commercial docks become available? I could see them as possibly a late Rennaisance or early Industrial improvement. They could be a real boon around mid-game, as I see it.

Carver · October 16, 2002, 02:16

In another thread someone said comm docks come avail with Mass Production.

aahz_capone · October 16, 2002, 08:56

Actually it makes sence that metros would have such a huge defence. Remember Stalingrad? Ok, the city got smashed, but never really taken by the germans. Think opf it as inner city fighting: damn hard, lots of cover and tanks are worthless. You have to clean the place room by room, building by building. I think that deserves a high defence rating.

Carver · October 17, 2002, 00:08

I wouldn't say tanks are worthless in the city; they seem to work alright in Ramallah and Gaza.

But your point is taken. Large cities, with large pops, and lots of infrastructure are tough.

Athitis · October 17, 2002, 07:18

Infantry is best suited in both defense and offence when in cities. Perhaps the Firaxians should give a 25% bonus in both attack and defense when infantry attacks a city, latter in the game, thus making useless units, like the marines, valuable.

i think civil defense gives a bonus only when it comes to bombarment.

aahz_capone · October 17, 2002, 07:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Athitis
Infantry is best suited in both defense and offence when in cities. Perhaps the Firaxians should give a 25% bonus in both attack and defense when infantry attacks a city, latter in the game, thus making useless units, like the marines, valuable.

i think civil defense gives a bonus only when it comes to bombarment.

Only with bombardment? like bomb shelters? hmmmm....

I think giving (non-mechanical) infantry (or at least marines an paratroopers) extra attack bonuses against cities of size > 12 is a good idea. It will stop me having only modern armour and mechinf only throughout the entire last 100 years. I almost never use marines, or paratroopers for that matter. giving them an edge over mechinf in specialized fighting (rather than only specialized traveling methods) is realistic, since many modern nations use marines and paratroopers a lot more then just mechinf.

Perhaps we should start a new thread about this Athitis to get FIRAXIS' attention? It could easily be implemented in the next PTW patch...

WarpStorm · October 17, 2002, 07:41

No, Civil Defense gives the 50% bonus across the board. I asked at the CFC chat and they said it's like walls that can be put on any size city and stacks with the rest of the defensive bonuses (you do need barracks to build them though).

Ozymandias · October 17, 2002, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Carver
I wouldn't say tanks are worthless in the city; they seem to work alright in Ramallah and Gaza. .

And Soviet helicopters were great in Afghanistan before the mujahadeen had American Stinger AA missiles.

Get some decent AT weapons in Ramallah and Gaza et. al. and it'd be a very different war ... kinda maybe like Baghdad come the winter ...

-O.

ak · October 19, 2002, 00:10

I'm wondering if I'll really use Outposts much. At the cost of a worker, it's pretty expensive early in the game. I might as well just have a unit stationed out there... Unless you're playing raging hordes, I don't see the barbarian issue as that significant.

monkspider · October 19, 2002, 00:30

Civil Defense could make this game into a defensive stalemate in the later game. Should be interesting.

candybo · October 19, 2002, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by WarpStorm
No, Civil Defense gives the 50% bonus across the board. I asked at the CFC chat and they said it's like walls that can be put on any size city and stacks with the rest of the defensive bonuses (you do need barracks to build them though).

This would make Sun Tzu's even more valuable, huh?