"He had a nasty reputation as a cruel dude..."

Arrian · October 14, 2002, 17:19

I finally decided "screw it, let's play Emperor." I chose China and after a couple of false starts, I've got a promising game going.

Some of it was luck. Some was sheer balls. I took a regular archer and attacked Bombay very early on, and though I failed to capture the city, I got my archer promoted to elite, killed several Indian units, and got tech, gold and 2 workers for peace. More on this later.

I then hit Japan with archers, and shortly after the fall of Kyoto, I received a GL. I decided to build the FP in Kyoto as soon as it was available. Kyoto isn't all that far from Beijing, but the immediate boost plus the possibility of later moving the Palace elsewhere won out over an Army or the Pyramids (my other options). I have since hit Japan again, taking a couple more cities and getting more tech & gold for peace. I then turned back to India.

I'm kicking the hell out of them, but I've got a potentially terrible problem: my first attack vs. India was a sneak attack. I moved my archer in, they asked for me to leave, I said I would, and then I attacked them. Therefore, I assume my reputation sucks. The Indians have contact with the Babylonians, who have contact with the Zulu (dunno if they have contact with others yet).

The secret appears to be out of the bag. No Arrian deception this time... the world will know of my devotion to the Dark Side. I'm gonna be strong, but not strong enough that my rep is irrelevant (at least for a while).

So here is my question: should I bother being "honorable" from here on out, or is my reputation unredeemable... and therefore should I be even more ruthless?

-Arrian

alexman · October 14, 2002, 17:49

Arrian, as long as you don't break any per-turn deals, your reputation doesn't take a hit. I know people say to have your troops outside their borders before attacking, but I have been sneak attacking for the longest time and have no problem trading with the AI. I think sneak attacking must hurt their attitude towards you, not your reputation. So they might hate you, but they will still trade with you.

vmxa1 · October 14, 2002, 18:37

I do not sneak attack, but if you mean honorable by not breaking treaties, I say sure. I do not see much evidence that I can keep the AI from not liking me anyway.

Theseus · October 14, 2002, 19:10

What the hell... be a psycho bastard. See what happens.

Can you credibly grab at least of couple of each luxury on the home continent? If yes, then even if your rep has suffered, you'll be able to master the game.

Jawa Jocky · October 14, 2002, 19:25

I've been hated for razing cities b4. But when I started to give away the luxuries, I gained some new friends.

vmxa1 · October 14, 2002, 20:03

I do not want any friends at that price. Well if I need an ally badly maybe.

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 09:39

Well, I won't be able to play more for a couple of days (game's on my gf's comp, and I'll be home until friday probably). Here is a more complete rundown of the situation:

Japan and India are on my continent. I sneak-attacked India once, but since then have declared war properly w/o breaking any 20 turn treaties. Japan is just about dead (2 cities) and India is taking a beating. Once I finish with India & mop up Japan, I will have my own continent and 3 luxury monopolies. It is possible that the Babs could slip a coastal city or two in while I'm fighting.

Babylon is on a rather large island to my south. They are, true to form, technologically advanced. They will enter the medieval age very soon. I don't know where Zululand is yet, but they are either on their own island or perhaps even in contact with yet more civs (normal map, 8 civs total).

I'm a Monarchy, and hope to build the HG. If I get another leader, I'll do my best to rush the GL - but that means I have to get literature. Part of the problem is that I don't have writing yet (will beat it out of India).

My main question is this: if I am careful not to break any 20 turn agreements, will I be able to trade with the AI, including gpt deals, normally? Or did my sneak attack of India screw that up?

Alexman has indicated that I should be able to trade normally, but people just won't like me. With 3 luxury monopolies, I could do well with that.

-Arrian

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 09:41

OT: anybody get the song reference from the thread title?

-Arrian

Jawa Jocky · October 15, 2002, 09:53

Unfortunetly I got the song stuck in my head, which is bad since I can't stand the Eagles. Now I'll have to go listen to Britney Spears (because only something more obnoxoius can replace what is already stuck in there).

But I guess that's Life in the Fast Lane. It will surely make you lose your mind (or in my case my cookies)

alva · October 15, 2002, 10:21

In my recent game I went for being nasty too (I'm usually quite honorable) and I must say that it does make it much harder.
I could get some Ai to deal with me on a GPT basis, but they would never agree to pay in advance.

Once I discovered new civs, there were somewhat less hostile, but not much.

I would say that as long as you got an MPP or equivalent, there are willing to trade. Other than that....

What level do you play normally btw?

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 10:59

Jawa Jocky - bingo! Sorry if I got it stuck in your head. Please, don't resort to Britney... listen to some Metallica instead.

alva848,

I have been playing Monarch for a long time now, and kinda got comfortable with it. But then I decided that I wanted more late-game showdowns, so I figured I'm made the jump to Emperor.

-Arrian

jshelr · October 15, 2002, 11:24

I've always found paying cash is better than per turn deals anyway. The AI charges interest even higher than credit cards for per turn agreement. AI civs on Emperor sneak attack you all the time.

More interesting for Arrian perhaps will be whether he can use Monarchy as freely as he could in Monarch games. The research pace is more frantic, and I think that gives Republic/Democracy more survival advantage on this level. On pangea maps, a Monarchy can create havoc and keep up on tech. But, when there are large AI civs off the human's continent with the Emperor research rate they can sometimes leave a Monarchy civ in the dust.

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 11:53

jshelr,

I think I will switch to republic once I have dealt with India, which will mean I have my 3rd luxury hooked up. That assumes I will have republic by then. Man, I could sure use the Great Library.

I'm REALLY missing being religious. I chose China figuring industriousness and archers from the start would be key. I was right, but at the same time, 60-shield temples and anarchy are brutal.

-Arrian

Theseus · October 15, 2002, 12:47

One of my recent tricks for non-religious civs:

When doing intercontinental attacks, build a larger-than-normal number of Galleys / Caravels / Galleons, so that you can transport your entire attacking foce for max concentration of power. Disband excess ships to get Temples up more quickly.

Same applies to vet Cavs with the advent of Tanks.

punkbass2000 · October 15, 2002, 12:49

I beg of you, please don't listen to Metallica.

vmxa1 · October 15, 2002, 12:58

Whats wrong with Henely and Frey?

punkbass2000 · October 15, 2002, 13:03

Is that question directed towards me?

Catt · October 15, 2002, 14:14

I've found that sneak attacks are much, much more damaging to your reputation if you have an RoP in place. Without an RoP, I've found it to be damaging, but not so much so that per-turn deals don't happen. I often seem to be limited to per-turn for per-turn deals (no upfront payments), some AIs won't do per-turn deals, period, for whatever reason, and RoP's are much harder to get. The lack of an RoP really only pinches when a neutral lies beween you and the enemy, and your enemy gets an RoP with the neutral.

My guess is that you can sell your excess luxuries even after sneak attacking India, but only for gpt / luxuries, and not for techs, lump sum cash, etc. for a long time. In other words, when calling the doctor (trading luxuries) you won't hear "Doctor says he's coming, but you gotta pay him cash." (

lousy, convoluted reference, I know).

Catt

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 14:26

Catt,

Thanks for chiming in. Sounds like a concensus has emerged - my rep is bad, but not totally ruined. Thanks all.

Theseus,

That's funny, that's how I've been doing intercontinental invasions lately too - even with religious civs. In situtations where I lack a foothold on the continent, and face the prospect of actually invading (rather than a troop buildup and then standard attack), I like to hit them with maximum force - which means one massive wave of troops and therefore a whole lot of ships. I will divide my forces to hit multiple targets symultaneously. The main objective, of course, is speed. Short wars make for happy democracies.

I often end up with silly numbers of galleons, some of which get disbanded in coastal towns.

-Arrian

jshelr · October 15, 2002, 14:46

Related idea: In late industrial age, rebasing bombers to disband and build critical immediate improvements on new continents is about the best practical use of bombers I've found.

Jawa Jocky · October 15, 2002, 14:57

Quote:

Originally posted by jshelr
Related idea: In late industrial age, rebasing bombers to disband and build critical immediate improvements on new continents is about the best practical use of bombers I've found.

I started disbanding the boats in prevoius Civ games when I could build new ones faster than I can get the old ones back to port. However it never occured to me that I could be take advantage of the 1 turn rebase of Air units in Civ3 this way. Its so damn obvoius I see why I never thought of it.

Can we rebase nukes? That would save some time.

Jawa Jocky · October 15, 2002, 14:59

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Whats wrong with Henely and Frey?

They aren't Plant and Page

jshelr · October 15, 2002, 15:22

"Can we rebase nukes? That would save some time."

Reminds me of a funny but true fact. If you decide to move a unit using the pointer and change your mind, then you can just click on the starting tile and nothing happens. If you want to fire a nuke and change your mind, clicking on the starting square is followed by a nuke falling vertically on your city. Trust me, don't do it.

punkbass2000 · October 15, 2002, 15:35

Falling vertically?!

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 15:38

jshelr, you nuked yourself? Sorry, but that's hilarious.

-Arrian

jshelr · October 15, 2002, 15:41

I was sorry too. And this was before I found the auto directory. So, I didn't know how to reload.

Arrian · October 15, 2002, 16:12

Ack! That must have really sucked.

Jawa Jocky - I do not believe you can "rebase" nuclear weapons. You certainly can't do it with ICBMs. I'm unclear about tactical nukes.

-Arrian

vmxa1 · October 15, 2002, 17:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky

They aren't Plant and Page

True, robert and Jimmy are different people and I like them as well.

Jaybe · October 15, 2002, 18:50

You don't "rebase" tacnucs. Just move them like a regular bombardment unit.

Of course, ICBMs don't move from their city of manufacture until you launch them. For that reason I tend to not build bunches of them in the same city, assuming others have (or may get) nukes.

Theseus · October 15, 2002, 19:17

jshelr,

Were your citizens complaining that it was too crowded, or "Hell no, we won;t go!"?

I'd use the luxury slider before a nuke, although I do get peeved sometimes.

R