Civ3, Addiction, Disclaimer, and Informed Consent - Page 2

Willem · December 10, 2002, 22:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer579

Example:
Set date and time: 11/272002 11 pm
Set rest duration: 8 hours

As I start playing at 8 pm and set it to stop at 11 pm, at 11 pm there is no way i can play more turns before 8 hours lapse (that is 7 am)! The game will stop after the end of the current turn or even suddenly in the middle of a battle!

Wouldn't work, all you'd have to do is reset the clock in your BIOS.

punkbass2000 · December 10, 2002, 23:36

I think you may have just ruined this man's life.

Dr. A. Cula · December 11, 2002, 03:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius
Hey Doc, where are you from? (I mean the city name, please!)

Btw, greetings from Timisoara!

Craiova, but living in Bucharest. Sorry for the delay, work induced stress overcame "lack of Civ"-induced stress.

ChaotikVisions · December 11, 2002, 04:28

I'm not addicted, I could stop any time, really. All I want is to see all of the world under Ottoman control, and failing that nobody gets it. *presses the big red button*

Explorer579 · December 14, 2002, 01:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Willem

Wouldn't work, all you'd have to do is reset the clock in your BIOS.

Believe me, Fyraxis programmers could do it. I did it for a software i published. Combinations of encrypted last used date and registry. You can't edit these encrypted files.

If somebody sets the clock back, it does not matter! it goes by the encrypted last used date and not by the computer's clock!

There are more rigorous schemes but more complex to explain here -or to implement.

Read previous posts about this subject in this forum.

Sheik · December 14, 2002, 01:35

Firaxis has a diclaimer (I believe there is one with PTW) and setting a clock would be ridiculous. Someone who is truly addicted wont use the clock.

badams52 · December 14, 2002, 01:43

My friend's solution, uninstall the game. Wouldn't work for some people

Explorer579 · December 17, 2002, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Sheik
Firaxis has a diclaimer (I believe there is one with PTW) and setting a clock would be ridiculous. Someone who is truly addicted wont use the clock.

Firaxis' disclaimer does not include a warning about the addictive nature of the game. It specifically covers:
1) Epilepsy warning
2) Repetitve movement warning
3) Motion sickness warning.

It is like warning you about the effects/symptoms of heroine withdrawal but not about its addictive nature!

Disclaimer should be extended to include addictivness. Addiction control measures should be given to those who are addicted and cannot stop the game and keep playing hour after hour.

Some do not have a problem with alcohol. Others are alcoholic. Addiction control measures are designed for the latter and not for the former. If you are not an addict and can stop the game after x hours, good for you! I am talking about the civaholics.

If Firaxis denies that the game is addictive and fails to warn us, they are not managing their risk appropriately. It is a simple disclaimer statement. It may affects sales - slightly I would guess. But they will sleep better. That is what risk management and informed concent are about.

Sheik · December 17, 2002, 17:17

Firaxis does not need a disclaimer. So what if the game is addictive?

steven8r · December 17, 2002, 17:23

Explorer,

It is not Firaxis' 'duty, obligation, nor responsibllity' to try and influence/control your own weakness. (Nor is it the responsibility of the tobacco companies, but I guess that's not how some would see it.)

Yes, Civ is a fun game, and is easily played longer than one might originally intend. The point is, "YOU NOW KNOW THIS." Act accordingly.

Take responsibility for yourself, or someone else will. Do you really want someone else to be in charge of your destiny????

My personal opinion is that a lot of problems in our society can be traced back to some point where someone wanted to shirk their own responsibility and become a 'victim'. With this new 'victim' status, a man doesn't have to think for himself, he has a government to do that for him.

Be responsible--not a victim

Trifna · December 17, 2002, 17:24

Nevermind, disclaimers aren't there to help with anything but inform people. I think we all already know it so maybe some other solution should go with it too :P

Explorer579 · December 18, 2002, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by steven8r
Explorer,

It is not Firaxis' 'duty, obligation, nor responsibllity' to try and influence/control your own weakness. (Nor is it the responsibility of the tobacco companies, but I guess that's not how some would see it.)

It is Firaxis's duty to inform of an existing risk like tobacco companies have now a duty to inform you of the risk on their products.

After you have been informed, you are free to do whatever you want even if this leads to your death!

Doctors use the informed consent concept too. They inform you of risks and benefits of surgery or of doing nothing to treat the condition. After that, you are a free person to decide. But doctors, companies, and Firaxis are liable for failure to inform!

Tobacco companies got in trouble not because addicts killed themselves with cigarettes, but because the tobacco companies knew the nicontine risks but denied them and did not inform people that nicotine is addictive.

After I convince Firaxis to manage its risk through informed consent, I am going to take on substance abuse: It is OK if a person experiments with drug as long as he/she is systematically informed about the risks then sign about understanding all of the risks.

About signing: Most good licensing agreements (which people don't read anyway), have the mandatory check here for "I agree" button, which acts as informed consent. Firaxis problem now is some warnings are missing. Am I more at risk of having seizure and motion sickness, or of being addicted to the game and being late to work because it is soooooo fun to play? Need to add that warning Firaxis... Is anybody listening there?

Explorer579 · January 14, 2003, 19:29

I have un-installed civ III about a month ago. And I am surviving so far.

Shr3dZ · January 14, 2003, 20:08

There could be a couple very easy solutions:

Have an in-game alarm clock- "You have now been playing for 6 hours straight, would you like to continue?"
And also to follow-up with that, perhaps a notpad that pops-up so that you can jot down some ideas. The main reason I just hafta play 'one more turn' is b/c 'if I quit now, Ill forget what my specific plans were'. My train of thought must not be hindered!

Explorer579 · February 25, 2003, 20:24

I am still surviving without Civ III. I think about it though.. I will try again sometimes.. when it is less addictive..

badams52 · February 26, 2003, 17:23

Civ III is just like a drug. Once your addicted, it's hard to kick the habit, and there's always relapse possibilities. Calling Civ III less addictive is like calling cigarettes less addictive

. Just my opinion.

Explorer579 · June 15, 2003, 00:05

It is me again! I bought a new faster computer and it was interestring to check how fast civ3 would run on it. So I did start a game on Wed evening. I stayed until 3 am and on Thursday evening I played until 4 am.. I felt very tired at work the nex tday, and my back hurts big time... i can't even watch the time when i play civ! I am going to stop this relapse... i still want a timer..

statusperfect · June 15, 2003, 04:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer579
I am going to stop this relapse... i still want a timer..

Get MOO3

cheers

troytheface · June 15, 2003, 09:36

lol funny thread. If it were not this addiction it would be another. And there are far worse addictions than playing a game. Chess shares similiar time adulation-and has had-for many many years. Hitler was reported to have played a few games of chess -then stopped- because he thought that it would take up all his time....
the supposition that addiction is horrible-is sophmoric-
alot of fat people in america-terrible on the health-but we go after smokers-laughable.

mrboo123 · June 15, 2003, 10:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Shr3dZ
There could be a couple very easy solutions:

Have an in-game alarm clock- "You have now been playing for 6 hours straight, would you like to continue?"
And also to follow-up with that, perhaps a notpad that pops-up so that you can jot down some ideas. The main reason I just hafta play 'one more turn' is b/c 'if I quit now, Ill forget what my specific plans were'. My train of thought must not be hindered!

Good Idea, I always wanted that (not that I evered play more than 2hours staright)

GodKing · June 15, 2003, 12:17

You know, Apolyton takes more of my time than actually playing the game.....

Kuciwalker · June 15, 2003, 17:13

ditto here

Rhothaerill · June 15, 2003, 19:28

Lately it has been. Trying to stay up with some of the threads I've been posting to, writing an AAR for the AU208 course, and now the C3DG.

Kaos XIII · June 15, 2003, 20:18

Edit:

Don't let the game take over your life. If you're staying up till 3 and 4 AM playing a comp. game, then you need to STOP. Get rid of it and GO outside, hang at the beach, just relax and keep it real.

Explorer579 · June 15, 2003, 22:36

Quote:

Originally posted by troytheface
Chess shares similiar time adulation-and has had-for many many years. .

I play chess too and it is way less addictive than civ3. First, I paly 1 hour of 5 minute games and then get bored. I can't withstand longer games. In addition, after one month of chess playing, I get enough for the next 6 months and won't have a "chess craving" for another 6 months. It is very controllable. The more I play chess, the more I get bored. With civ3, it is the opposite.

My problem with civ3 is that i would have a strategy to implement and it takes for ever to play it and verify it. When I play the smallest maps, it is much more controllable (because the games end faster), but still time flies by like magic. In chess, I watch the clock with every move! Hey, how about a civ3 timer!

dexters · June 15, 2003, 23:32

I just blew a 3 day weekend on Civ 3.

Rhothaerill · June 16, 2003, 02:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaos XIII
Sorry, I know this is serious. Don't let the game take over your life. If you're staying up till 3 and 4 AM playing a comp. game, then you need to STOP. Get rid of it and GO outside, hang at the beach, just relax and keep it real.

Oh it's real.

Most days I only play an hour or so of civ, if at all. I was talking about spending more time on 'Poly lately than actually playing.

Kaos XIII · June 16, 2003, 11:14

Hi!

I think I have a solution. Buy one of those big, noisy, irrating alarm clocks. You know, the kind you feel like throwing across the room in the morning. Put it next to your computer, with the alarm. set to whenever, you know you should stop.

Also get a bunch of post-its, with notes all over your computer screen. They should say stuff like, "Listen to the Alarm", or "Stop before your life is ruined", maybe "Jesus loves you." Anyway, the control is up to you. Be a man, stand up to your addiction and compulsive behavior.

If you can't stop, then get rid of Civ. Yeah, I said it. Just my two cents.

Carver · June 21, 2003, 09:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Explorer579
An Informed Consent is not only about risks. It should also lists benefits. As a praise to civ3, I like to say "civ3 relaxes me!" It makes me forget all the real world around me for a while.

To me, this is the best thing about Civ. There are few things other than Civ that I can do where I can totally put all the other troubles of life and the world out of my mind. Movies/TV/books just remind me of things... With that in mind Civ has definently been worth the $70.

Drachen · June 21, 2003, 19:02

DSM-IV - DEFINITIONS OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE

DSM-1V-TR 2002 UPDATE

On the continuum of drug/alcohol use, abuse, dependence (addiction/alcoholism) the criteria for determining addiction to drugs or alcohol and/or alcoholism is clearly spelled out by the American Psychological Association in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV). The definition is key to intervention with drug/alcohol abusers as it classifies abusive drug/drinking behaviors and impacts on the type of treatment that medical insurance will cover. Reflected in the definition is the current research on brain chemistry. Important for us are the guidelines that are offered by these definitions so that we, in turn, can identify drug/alcohol (SUBSTANCE) abuse and drug/alcohol addiction (SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE).

The term drug encompasses alcohol and, from this point forward, alcohol is included in the term “drug”. In turn, the DSM-IV uses the term “SUBSTANCE” to encompass drugs of abuse, medication or a toxin; for our purposes we shall limit the discussion to drugs of abuse. The DSM-IV-TR (text revision of 2002) continues using the same definitions as DSM-IV of 1996.

SUBSTANCE ABUSE:

One or more of the following:

FAILURE TO FULFILL MAJOR OBLIGATIONS
USE WHEN PHYSICALLY HAZARDOUS
RECURRENT LEGAL PROBLEMS
RECURRENT SOCIAL OR INTERPERSONAL PROBLEMS

With SUBSTANCE ABUSE the user has a choice: he/she uses in spite of illegal, unsafe consequences, or inappropriateness of the drinking/drugging experience.

SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCE (ADDICTION/ALCOHOLISM)

Three or more of the following:

TOLERANCE
WITHDRAWAL
LARGE AMOUNTS OVER A LONG PERIOD
UNSUCCESSFUL EFFORTS TO CUT DOWN
TIME SPENT IN OBTAINING THE SUBSTANCE REPLACES
SOCIAL, OCCUPATIONAL OR RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES
CONTINUED USE DESPITE ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES

hmmm: