It is done...Dutch right wing governement collapses

[Robert Plomp]

You said they were against, which is not true.

What if you quote me?
This is the 2nd person in 2 days (Heuij to be the other one) who puts words into my mouth........

[Lemmy]

You said they were against, which is not true.

What if you quote me?
This is the 2nd person in 2 days (Heuij to be the other one) who puts words into my mouth........

legalising soft drugs is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.
euthanasia is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.

[Hueij]

Must be a CDA thing. Saying one thing one day, saying the opposite the next day. Wheatervanes...

[Robert Plomp]

CyberShy: legalising soft drugs is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.
euthanasia is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.

yeah, the CU is against.
The discussion was about if the CU is a left / green party, or a right-wing party. I said CU is more left / green, with some conservative christian morals.

Then the questions was what the position of the CU is on those two issues.
That's why I explained that both issues were not leftish / green issues, and the CU is against them.
In fact I said "They're against these issues, but that doesn't mean they're not green / leftish, because these two issues aren't green/leftish issues"

I said not "Green / leftish parties are against these issues" but I can see that you read it that way if you didn't follow the entire discussion.

Must be a CDA thing. Saying one thing one day, saying the opposite the next day. Wheatervanes...

Now after reading my explanation,
I expect a rectification from your side. This is the 2nd time you misunderstand my opinion, and take silly conclusions out of it. But I guess you'll keep silence again, like the former time you putted wrong words into my mouth, you could never prove it, but never admitted it either.

Quiet a disrespectfull attitude.

[Ribannah]

I have no idea who you are talking to now or what you are talking about.
A simple clarification would have done, there's no need to get so upset. Misunderstandings happen, and nobody blames you if your command of the English language is not perfect, which may have been the cause.
(And we did ask for permission to post in Dutch. )
So consider it put right.

[Saint Marcus]

laten we maar gewoon Nederlands praten dan. Dit is veel te verwarrend

[Hueij]

laten we maar gewoon Nederlands praten dan. Dit is veel te verwarrend

Ok...
Okay...

Quiet a disrespectfull attitude.

Weet ik, CDA'ers hebben dat effect op me...
I know, CDA people have that effect on me...

yeah, the CU is against.
The discussion was about if the CU is a left / green party, or a right-wing party. I said CU is more left / green, with some conservative christian morals.

Then the questions was what the position of the CU is on those two issues.
That's why I explained that both issues were not leftish / green issues, and the CU is against them.
In fact I said "They're against these issues, but that doesn't mean they're not green / leftish, because these two issues aren't green/leftish issues"

I said not "Green / leftish parties are against these issues" but I can see that you read it that way if you didn't follow the entire discussion.

Whoa, Lubbers zou trots op je zijn!...
Whoa, Lubbers would be proud of you!...

[Lemmy]

I said not "Green / leftish parties are against these issues" but I can see that you read it that way if you didn't follow the entire discussion.

I followed the entire discussion and read it that way

[Saint Marcus]

I followed the entire discussion and read it that way

ditto

[Robert Plomp]

laten we maar gewoon Nederlands praten dan. Dit is veel te verwarrend

Dat zou ik moeten rapporteren aan Ming

Weet ik, CDA'ers hebben dat effect op me...
I know, CDA people have that effect on me...

Dat heet...... vooroordelen
Blue elephants walk across the street.

Whoa, Lubbers zou trots op je zijn!...
Whoa, Lubbers would be proud of you!...

*gezicht straalt als een trotse CDA-er*
Blue rain is dropping down the window

I followed the entire discussion and read it that way

Try it again..........
see what I replied to.
Anyway, I think things are putted straight again.

ok, now I see that Saint Marcus read it the same way, I'll have to look it up again.....

[Saint Marcus]

Dat zou ik moeten rapporteren aan Ming

laat hem er zelf maar achter komen. praten over nederlandse politiek in het engels werkt niet echt

ok, now I see that Saint Marcus read it the same way, I'll have to look it up again.....

doesn't matter, we know what you mean now.

Dat heet...... vooroordelen
Blue elephants walk across the street.

*gezicht straalt als een trotse CDA-er*
Blue rain is dropping down the window

[Robert Plomp]

this is Heuij's question:

Heuij: Mix...?? Care to tell this dumb green leftie what the CU stances are on homosexuality and gay marriage, legal prostitution, legalising soft drugs, euthanasia etc usw...? Since ,according to you, I obviously don't know much about the CU, please enlighten me...

this is my reply:

CyberShy: homosexuality / gay mariage: Not a leftish / green issue. CU is against gay mariage.

legalising soft drugs is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.

euthanasia is not a leftish / green issue either. They're against.

Does being against these 3 things make you a fundamentalist? I don't think so. I think these are pretty common thoughts in the world.

don't take it out of the context.
But indeed, it wasn't phrased very well.
I phrased it with the idea that you guys would read the answer with the question in your mind.

[Robert Plomp]

laat hem er zelf maar achter komen. praten over nederlandse politiek in het engels werkt niet echt

Ik zou het in het Nederlands kunnen rapporteren

[Robert Plomp]

CyberShy: But indeed, it wasn't phrased very well.

reading my own quote again, I see that there are 3 "they're against" lines, and I start the first line with "CU is against". It's not that strange to keep the "CU" away in the 2nd and 3rd line in that case.

Yes, I am frustrated about all those vooroordelen you have to battle against as a christian.

[Saint Marcus]

Yes, I am frustrated about all those vooroordelen you have to battle against as a christian.

rephrase that

conservative christians are the ones under fire. Liberal christians are not. The latter care more for "treat your neighbours like yourself", than wether or not abortion should be legal or not.

[Robert Plomp]

rephrase that

Ja, ik ben gefrustreerd over al die vooroordelen waar je als christen tegen moet vechten.

conservative christians are the ones under fire. Liberal christians are not. The latter care more for "treat your neighbours like yourself", than wether or not abortion should be legal or not.

oh well, conservative liberals push their morals through the troats of others as well. But since they are in the majority, nobody cares. If I zap the tv, walk on street, etc. I have to watch nudity.

I have to listen to swearing, during our services we have to be bothered by the kermis.

But indeed, don't push your morals up to others.
I wish that other, non-christians, would do the same. (in general of course)

[Saint Marcus]

I have to listen to swearing, during our services we have to be bothered by the kermis.

well yeah, that does suck. But few liberals would claim that (extreme) swearing is a freedom people should have. I certainly don't. I don't care if someone lets out the occasional cussword, but there are limits.

But indeed, don't push your morals up to others.
I wish that other, non-christians, would do the same. (in general of course)

indeed. I agree. and that's why I don't agree with most (other) christians.

conservative christians want to forbit euthanasia, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit abortion, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves (and no, a 2 week old baby is not a sentient being).

conservative christians want to forbit pornography, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit marihuana, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

conservative christians want to forbit gay-marriages. I believe people should chose for themselves.


You may use the slippery slope argument. What if people want to use harddrugs. What if people want to participate in streetraces on the A2. etc. Well, anything is ok in my book, if you don't hurt others. Nobody gets hurt from two gays marrying. Those gays that get married do get hurt (emotionally) from the the things some christians say to them (you're sinners, you're going to hell if you don't stop your sinful lives, etc).

[Robert Plomp]

I think I am a conservative christian,
I believe the bible is thrue. I'm not a "ter Linde" christian who think it's all a fairy tale. It's not as if I think we should adopt the conservative lifestyle. Christianity is not a lifestyle. People mix that up. (read: christians mix that up)

conservative christians want to forbit euthanasia, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

that's true. Be sure though that people don't get forced into it, and all that. BUt I think the current law is good enough for that.

conservative christians want to forbit abortion, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves (and no, a 2 week old baby is not a sentient being).

If the mother had a choise, it is not allowed, unless she's ill and all that. Thus, if the mother had no choise (rape, incest, etc.) it's not allowed.

A 2 week baby is not a sentient being, pherhaps, but it is a being. And you do cut of an OTHER life. Of course opinions differ on the matter if a baby is a being.

But abortus is not a personal thing. You kill a baby.
And if i say that people should kill other people, that's ok for me to say. Thus I can't see why I can't see you can't kill other babies. Anyway, I will never kill a doctor or something. And I won't act much on this opinion.

I am pro-choise.
- you're free to chose to have s*x or not.
- you're free to chose to use anti-conception.

conservative christians want to forbit pornography, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

think so. But be sure it's kept away from children, and people who don't want to be bothered with it.

conservative christians want to forbit marihuana, for all people. I believe people should chose for themselves.

I think that's right on the first sight.
But marihuana and all other kinds of drugs have some social impact. But, since forbidding it wont take away the social impact, plain forbidding it is no good.

But this society would be a better place if people wouldn't drink too much, and use drugs. And yes, unfortunately the good users are suffering under the bad ones, which is a pitty.

But eventhough smokers don't harm anybody, they're hunted down, and drugs users and drinkers are hardly facing any pressure to mellow down.

conservative christians want to forbit gay-marriages. I believe people should chose for themselves.

think so.

(you're sinners, you're going to hell if you don't stop your sinful lives, etc).

We all live sinful lives. In the afterlife we will be with God, or seperated from God. It depends on your choise in this life. Do you want to be with God? That's ok, and follow Him. Do you not want to be with God, then you won't be. It would be a shame if people who don't want to be with God have to be with him though, wouldn't it?

[Saint Marcus]

I'm more a Ter Linde christian

anyway, news from the Hague.

the two new parties in the last election, Livable Netherlands and List Pim Fortuyn have split.

LN will be split in: Livable Netherlands (Teeven) and New Netherlands (Nagel)

LPF will be split in: List Pim Fortuyn (Nawijn, Herben), List New Politics (Heinsbroek, Wijnschenk) and The Conservatives (De Jong, Ebenhart).

The following parties may have a chance of getting one or more seats in the 2nd Chamber:

traditional parties, certain of one or more seats:

Labour
Liberals
Christian Democrats
Green Left
Socialist Party
Christian Union
Democrats
Reformist Party

New and/or small parties, will have to fight to gain any seats:

List Pim Fortuyn
List New Politics
Conservatives
New Netherlands
Livable Netherlands
Senior citizens parties
The Community (new islamic party)

[Ribannah]

So, who is going to vote in January?

[germanos]

Saint Marcos:

could you PLEASE change Reformed Party into Reformists Party or something the like?

Foreigners might get the wrong idea.
(I suppose you mean the well discussed SGP by Reformed Party )
the -ism at the end should give them the well-intentend itch.

[Ribannah]

I don't know, they always come across as pretty de- er, I mean, re-formed.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Ribannah
So, who is going to vote in January?

I ALWAYS vote.

Last 'gemeenteraads'-elections for the first time I voted 'blanco' in the 'deelgemeenteraads'-elections. Really al the parties sucked. (i had the choice of 5 parties). I really wonder why the politicians think that ever decreasing the influence of electable 'bodies' is going to inspire people to vote. My guess is the opposite would do more good.

The same with the bloody 'referenda'. I mean: I cast my vote every now and then, and then I want these people to do the job they are hired for, and not bother me with voting for every littly thing they cannot decide on. :doitnow:
Offcourse I don't want that Highway in my backyard, but hey: how do I know if it fits in the big picture?

[Lemmy]

New and/or small parties, will have to fight to gain any seats:

List Pim Fortuyn
List New Politics
Conservatives
New Netherlands
Livable Netherlands
Senior citizens parties
The Community (new islamic party)

Don't forget the Future Party, or Party of the Future

[germanos]

Or the Infinite Split-Up Party (AKA Lemming-Party)!

[Saint Marcus]

Or the Infinite Split-Up Party

isn't that the LPF?

[germanos]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
isn't that the LPF?

No the LPF is the List Personal Favoratism.
Something else completely

[Saint Marcus]

more news: if cda+vvd don't get a majority, Zalm wants to form a coalition with D66 or the CU.