Productivity, GNP and Mfg. Goods?

Jon Shafer · October 17, 2002, 02:19

Has anyone figured out what these mean (on the retirement summary screen). I'm pretty sure that Productivity and GNP have to do with your income, and I think that Mfg. Goods may have to do with the amount of production your cities are capable of... but I really have no clue other than speculation and a bit of observation.

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 03:02

You can see anytime that screen pressing F11, not just when you retire.

GNP is your net income.
Mfg.Goods is your total production.
I have no idea how Productivity is calculated. Maybe it is related to lost commerce and shields (due to corruption), or maybe something entirely else.

Jon Shafer · October 17, 2002, 03:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius
You can see anytime that screen pressing F11, not just when you retire.

Well, you learn something new every day!

Quote:

GNP is your net income.
Mfg.Goods is your total production.
I have no idea how Productivity is calculated. Maybe it is related to lost commerce and shields (due to corruption), or maybe something entirely else.

I figured something like that, but I wasn't really sure.

Does anyone know exactly how these are calculated?

vmxa1 · October 17, 2002, 04:08

I forget something new everyday.

alva · October 17, 2002, 04:12

hm, I alwayss assumed the 'goods' thing had something to do with the amount of resources/luxuries you had.

It is kind of strange that is so very little info on this, isn't?

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 04:16

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
I forget something new everyday.

You must be a happy man

Nym · October 17, 2002, 07:36

I suppose it is something like that:
GNP : total income
Mfg. Goods: total shields production
Productivity = (Mfg. Goods)/(number of cities)

Alex · October 17, 2002, 07:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Nym
I suppose it is something like that:
GNP : total income
Mfg. Goods: total shields production
Productivity = (Mfg. Goods)/(number of cities)

That seems to be a pretty good explanation.

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 08:19

GNP: I think it's the net income, not total income (total income - total expenses)

Productivity: seems to be a good idea. Must be verified though.

jshelr · October 17, 2002, 09:03

As a certifiable economist, let me respond with what these measures should be.

GNP should not be net of expenses since military units, for example, are "final demand." The G in GNP stands for gross, so upkeep of buildings should not be netted out. Corruption is the channeling of GNP from the tax system, not a reduction in GNP.

Productivity should be GNP / population.

Manufactured goods is a tougher question, since it is positive before factories. I've no quarrel with total shield production being the right answer.

I definitely agree with the idea that it is strange these are not well defined by the 'pedia.

Alex · October 17, 2002, 10:54

Quote:

Originally posted by jshelr

I definitely agree with the idea that it is strange these are not well defined by the 'pedia.

I guess that Sid didn't want to overwhelm the player with unnecessary details. The F11 table is there only to serve as a means of comparison of how well you're doing against the others. "Look, I'm the first in Mfg. Goods and Productivity! Cool! Whatever that means..."

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 11:18

I didn't say what it should be, but what it is. The GNP is your net income (the sum that remains after all expenses are deducted).
I checked the numbers in several ocassions, so unless I've lost completely my mathematical skills, it is definitely so. You can check this easily playing with your tax bar (F1).

The Mfg Goods is your civ's total shield output.

I don't think that productivity is GNP / population. You can have at certain moments negative GNP (I admit that this is absurd) and despite this the productivity is positive.

Edited:
If I remember corectly, there is something called "Annual income" and it gives you per capita figures. This number is, I think, calculated with the GDP/population formula.

jshelr · October 17, 2002, 12:49

I'm outraged

Used to work for the people who calculate GDP in the Commerce Dept. If this is true, I'm going to have to break my civ Cd in two and never play the game again.

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 13:40

I'm not at home and can't check it now, but now I hope I'm wrong because otherwise you will blame me for your broken Civ3 CD

SanPellegrino · October 17, 2002, 13:45

I am with Nym about this.
jshelr, you're right in Real Life productivity is measured in money not in shields

But in Civ Productivity is definitely based on shields, build some factories on the same turn and watch your prod. go up. So AFAICS productivity has nothing to do with GNP in Civ 3.

Jon Shafer · October 17, 2002, 14:48

I'm not so sure about that. Check the stats I have for my scenario. Currently, France is a republic, and is making a WHOLE lot more cash than anyone else. However, their Mfg. Goods is still quite close to everyone else's (Austria's is actually greater).

Code:

		Prussia		Russia		France		Austria

Population	2,510,000	5,990,000	5,120,000	4,860,000
Land Area	14,400 mi	99,000 mi	36,900 mi	43,500 mi

Productivity	187		325		499		281	
GNP		118 million	250 million	446 million	188 million
Mfg. Goods	31 mtons	73 mtons	81 mtons	92 mtons

Income		118 gold	250 gold	446 gold	188 gold
Usable Income	110 gold	207 gold	398 gold	159 gold

Usable Income refers to the amount of gold left (before being used) after corruption.

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 14:51

OK, I've searched a bit about these things and even though I haven't found anything about the civ3 demographics screen, I've found the explanations for the Civ2 Demographics figures. I suppose their are, if not the same, very close.

Here it comes:

Approval Rating - Ratio of happy to unhappy people

GNP - Income based on trade and tax/luxury rates
Since it is based on the tax slider, it can't be your total commerce "production" (total income). It is the part of your total commerce income that goes to taxes instead of science or luxury. I don't know however if buildings and military upkeep is deducted or not to get the final sum.

Manufactured goods - Total number of shields

Family size - Based on average food surplus

Military Service - Number of military units in relation to population

Productivity - Shields per total squares inside your borders (in civ2 it was shields minus support per square in use so I guessed that now it must be squares inside your borders)

SanPellegrino · October 17, 2002, 14:58

Guess they are the same things in Civ 3, which applies to the things said before.

Jaybe · October 17, 2002, 14:59

Trip,
There are definitions over in the Democracy Game forum.
Whether they are more "accurate" or not ...

Tiberius · October 17, 2002, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
Usable Income refers to the amount of gold left (before being used) after corruption.

So this is it. GNP is your total income. (not your total commerce income, but the part of it that goes to taxes instead of science or luxury, and before other losses, like corruption, are deducted).

alva · October 17, 2002, 16:24

Quote:

Approval Rating - Ratio of happy to unhappy people

Quote:

Well, you learn something new every day!

Hail Caesar! · October 18, 2002, 12:08

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Tiberius

Approval Rating - Ratio of happy to unhappy people

Actually I would stand to figure that Approval Rating is the ratio of Happy people to total population. I've had approval ratings above 90 which indicates that most everyone is happy, not that there are as many happy people as unhappy or whatever.

I don't know if content citizens abstain, or what.

I like all of my people to be happy. I'm an emotionally needy President

BTW what is Literacy calculated on? I'm always 3rd or 4th. Seems appropriate for America, the most powerful country in the world, always behind Germany in math and science.

alva · October 18, 2002, 12:11

Literacy has something to do with the percentage of libraries and universities, duh.
But also how for your are in the tech tree IIRC