Can I trust them?

bongo · October 18, 2002, 03:38

If you sell a tech to the AI for a high sum of GPT, can you expect him to keep peace and pay you your money the next 20 turns?

In my current game(as the germans) I'm the first to discover replaceable parts. I want to give this tech to an ally(japan) which is hard pressed and in war with everyone. I also offered this tech to my neighbour the french who offered me all their gold(140) an 112 GPT. I'm #1 in power with the french following me closely. I can't remember the french breaking a treaty with me yet and I haven't broken treaties myself either.

Can I trust the french to keep peace and pay, are there things I can do to keep them from breaking this (expensive)treaty?

kring · October 18, 2002, 04:08

There are no guarantees that they will keep the treaty. I rarely have the French break treaties in my games, but it has happened. Are you selling them anything else currently, or have you sold them anything else, like luxuries or strategic resources? This is one of the few ways that helps keep them from breaking a treaty, but even then, it's doesn't always work. A lot will depend on their cash flow.

If you sell the tech to one civ, you may as well sell it to all civs, because if you don't, then they will. Never sell a tech during the AI's turn unless you want them to immediately sell it to everyone else.

bongo · October 18, 2002, 04:54

I'm currently giving them some GPT(20 to 50, I'm not sure) as payment for a tech I bought. No other trades. I'm also at war with the rest of the world (they even refuse to meet my envoy) so I can't sell them anything.

The french are annoyed or furios with me. I have one or two of their workers, will they like me more if I add them to one of my cities?

Nym · October 18, 2002, 05:52

Quote:

Originally posted by kring
If you sell the tech to one civ, you may as well sell it to all civs, because if you don't, then they will. Never sell a tech during the AI's turn unless you want them to immediately sell it to everyone else.

Yes; this is very important.

As kring explained it there are no guarantees that the AI will keep the treaty. It has already work for me, selling Ecology to the Babylonians for 500 gpt, but some civs are more treacherous than others. I will more likely trust the French or the Indians than Japan or Persia.

Arrian · October 18, 2002, 10:55

Trust the AI? Hah! That doesn't mean you shouldn't make the deal, but never - ever - trust the AI.

-Arrian

Jaybe · October 18, 2002, 11:57

Let's put it this way:
If Joan can't keep up her payments with you, the ONLY way she (or any AI) can prematurely terminate the agreement is to declare war.

jshelr · October 18, 2002, 12:05

Just to chime in, if you are #1 and a republic or democracy, very often the best thing that can happen is for #2 to declare war on you. You will experience less WW and drive them back to Communism, frequently with very beneficial results for your tech lead. If that scenario appears to be relevant, then the trade starts to look better.

Demerzel · October 18, 2002, 12:05

give the other civs the tech to build infantry? heh, take advantage of the chance you've been given. Conquer with the knowledge that your cities are safe with unbeatable infantry.

vmxa1 · October 18, 2002, 13:42

I am not concerned about the trust, so much, I just do not want to let them have replacement parts, unless they are working on it already. I would not give it to Japan, unless I already traded it to others, I do not want them to be trading my tech and letting, my potential enemies have it.

dworkin · October 18, 2002, 15:19

Trust the AI to try and win. If it ever gets the idea that attacking you will further this goal in it's tiny silicon mind it will.

JohnM2433 · October 18, 2002, 17:09

Quote:

Originally posted by bongo
The french are annoyed or furios with me. I have one or two of their workers, will they like me more if I add them to one of my cities?

They should, since the AI doesn't like it when you have workers of their nationality, or so I've heard. Presumably they would look even more favorably on you if you gave the workers back to them.

Tuberski · October 18, 2002, 20:31

Quote:

Originally posted by bongo
I'm currently giving them some GPT(20 to 50, I'm not sure) as payment for a tech I bought. No other trades. I'm also at war with the rest of the world (they even refuse to meet my envoy) so I can't sell them anything.

The french are annoyed or furios with me. I have one or two of their workers, will they like me more if I add them to one of my cities?

This is the only thing that lessens the chance of war. The fact that you are paying them. After those 20 turns are up though watch out.

But, watch out anyway as there are no guarantees.

bongo · October 21, 2002, 04:38

I made the deal anyway, so far they have been real nice and peaceful to me. I also made peace with the rest of the world, selling them every tech I can. I have a nice income now. Getting all those GPT from the other civ also means less money for research for them

To further lessen the change of the french declaring war I build new units all the time now. I want to discourage any attacks until I'm ready for them(read: I'm waiting for panzers)

Demerzel : Giving other civ's replaceable parts is actually less risky than one might imagine. As cavalry currently is my strongest attackers infantry won't help me much. I plan to stay at peace with the world until I have a decent army of panzers. Then I will roll over them

vmxa1 · October 21, 2002, 12:37

Replacement Parts is too important get into the AI hands any sooner than necessary. It gives Infantry and Rubber, but another huge boost is the double speed to workers. Not to mention it is a gateway to other powerful techs. Inf as defenders makes taking cities so very hard, you really need tank unles you are willing to take losses or bring a ton of arties.

Bella Hella · October 21, 2002, 13:22

hm. in this situation, when you want them to stay nice, maybe you could offer them 1 gold per turn. so they're paying you like 100+ per turn for the tech, then you sell them the tech, plus 1 gpt. even though you lose that 1 stupid gpt, seems like they'd want to keep the peace since they're now getting income from you. another thing i've noticed is that the AI doesn't like it when you don't buy their luxuries. i can be at peace with every civ, then the dye deal with the zulu will expire. when i call them up, they'll be "annoyed," then after i renegotiate the deal, they're "polite" or even "gracious." i haven't noticed the same phenomenon when *I* have excess resources/luxuries and don't trade them to the AI (yeah, like i'm gonna give them all uranium or something).

Alex · October 21, 2002, 13:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Bella Hella
another thing i've noticed is that the AI doesn't like it when you don't buy their luxuries.

Maybe they think that the excess of luxuries can corrupt their values...

bongo · October 22, 2002, 02:54

vmxa1 : I think timing is very important here. The only reason that I'm willing to trade them replaceable parts is that they would have gotten it on their own soon ( My tech lead is very narrow). At least a long time before I could build Panzers. I plan to build two or three panzer armys and roll over them as soon as I can.

vmxa1 · October 22, 2002, 12:38

Yes, that is the only time I would trade such a key tech is if they are close to getting it, but if they are you do not get much anyway. Once I get the tech lead, I am loathed to trade any. Let them get them when they can, I will want to impede them.

Tattila the Hun · October 30, 2002, 08:09

Is there any way to "spy", what the ai's are researching, and how far are they?

bongo · October 30, 2002, 10:55

No direct way of finding out. You have to look at the different signs (Hit 'F7' to see who's building what, look at his units..) even the diplomacy screen will only tell you which tech they have that you can research yourself, not techs beyond that point.

Your tech-advisor will tell you if you are ahead or not.