Up to 700 people believed to be held hostage in Moscow - Page 3

Hurricane · October 24, 2002, 08:47

Let's hope this gets a peaceful ending.

Violence is not the right way to try to solve things.

Serb · October 24, 2002, 08:49

Last news,
It’s admitted that Australian, Canadian and American citizens are among the hostages too.
I just saw video how small group of hostages are escaping. Total number grows to 52. No info about killed or injured. Also I just saw an interview with head of Muslim Church of Russia. He said that anything can’t justify such actions. That in accordance with Koran people who kill innocents will be punished in hell. Also he said that he had emergency meeting with president Putin and that president called this act- a provocation against all Muslim people of Russia. That people who did this would like to see grow of hatred between peoples of different religious confessions. The head of Muslim Church of Russia said that if those people consider themselves Muslims they should release all hostages, because there is no single goal, which deserves to be achieved, through such means as blood of innocent people.
Also I saw interview with Alexandr Zecalo popular showman and producer of this musical. He admitted again that there are still many children who are part of theater troupe held inside. And he asked terrorists once again to release children.
Now terrorists demand a foreign doctor who speaks Russian for negotiations. (I guess they don’t know what they actually want, so many different demands) However there is no info about victims among the hostages. Earlier there was information that terrorists threaten to start to kill hostages.

Hurricane · October 24, 2002, 08:59

Quote:

Sources in law enforcement told the Russian news agency ITAR-Tass that the hostage takers may belong to a group led by notorious Chechen field commander Movsar Barayev.

Seems this guy has risen from the dead. According to the Russian Information Centre tre:

Quote:

On Saturday (12.10), the command of the Joint Group of Federal Forces in the North Caucasus officially confirmed death of Movsar Barayev, notorious leader of a terrorist grouping and nephew of cut-throat Arbi Barayev, who had been killed earlier. According to a deputy commander of the Joint Group, Lieutenant Colonel Boris Podoprigora, Movsar Barayev and his supporters were killed two days ago in the area of Komsomolskoye settlement as a result of pinpoint air and artillery strikes.

Boris Podoprigora stressed that "federal forces are carrying out operations against local bandits and Gelayev's militants who could infiltrate the area." According to the military command, 36 terrorists were killed over the past week. Eight bases with significant stock of arms, foodstuffs and equipment were destroyed. Podoprigora indicated that those were winter bases, the preparation of which militants had been engaged in over the recent period.

Pinpoint...

Hurricane · October 24, 2002, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Serb
Several minutes ago one of the news chanels (almost all TV chanels show the situation on-line) said that they heard sound of explosion inside of the theater. They suggest it was grenade. They suggest that more probably it was acident, not the beggining of speznaz operation.

This was taken from Kavkaz.org, the chechen news agency (very biased, of course).

Quote:

2002-10-24 11:34:21

Mujahideen threw grenade into empty room

Agency Kavkaz Center for a short period was contacted by assistant of Movsar Barayev and reported that the explosion really occurred in the building of the House of Culture. The reason for explosion was the grenade been thrown by Mujahideen into one of the empty rooms of the building for preventive measures. There are no casualties.

2002-10-24 10:47:32

Militiaman has been killed

Assistant of Movsar Barayev rang into editorial staff of Kavkaz Center and reported that at approximately 6 o'clock in the morning was killed one of the militiamen, who approached the central entrance of the House of Culture under the guise of a drunken person and asked to enter. After several warnings, mujahideen shot dead the militiaman.

EDIT: a woman (a FSB agent accoring to KavKaz) has also supposedly been shot dead by the chechen terrorists.

Dr Strangelove · October 24, 2002, 09:53

I think that in the light of events transpiring over the past few weeks the United States should offer assistance to the Russian federation in support of their struggle against a common terrorist foe in the hopes that they will make a complimentary offer.

Are we going to wait for them to strike Western Europe as well?

Eli · October 24, 2002, 10:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Are we going to wait for them to strike Western Europe as well?

The answer is quite obvious.

des-esseintes · October 24, 2002, 10:13

Edited by Ming...

If you continue posting crap like the stuff I just deleted, you are toast...

The Mad Monk · October 24, 2002, 10:17

What the hell is your problem?

SlowwHand · October 24, 2002, 10:22

Yo, des-esseintes. Your kindergarden teacher is looking for you.

A hostage has been killed.

DinoDoc · October 24, 2002, 10:25

Quote:

Originally posted by MOBIUS
claiming the Russians deserved this,

Why should this thread be any different from the infinite ME threads, some of the 9/11 threads, etc.?

Arrian · October 24, 2002, 10:32

I read Mobius' post in absolute shock, considering his posts in those ME threads, Dino.

Sloww - really? Shite.

I think it would be appropriate to keep discussions of cause and effect out of this thread, and just use it for news and expressions of sympathy and such.

We can do the analysis of "root causes" later.

-Arrian

SlowwHand · October 24, 2002, 10:38

Chechen Gunmen Shoot Moscow Hostage
46 minutes ago

MOSCOW (AP) - Chechen gunmen shot and killed one of the hundreds of hostages being held at a Moscow theater, Russian news media reported Thursday.

The killing was believed to have taken place in the early hours of the crisis that began when gunmen stormed the theater at 9:05 p.m. Wednesday, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported, citing an unnamed police official at the scene.

A television report showed a stretcher with a blanket-covered body being taken out of the theater.

The report of the killing came as the crisis showed no signs of resolution.

Saint Marcus · October 24, 2002, 10:40

Quote:

Why should this thread be any different from the infinite ME threads, some of the 9/11 threads, etc.?

were there "Americans deserved it" threads on sept 11? They didn't pop up until a week after the event I believe...so wait 7 days before posting this crap

DinoDoc · October 24, 2002, 10:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
were there "Americans deserved it" threads on sept 11?

I notice that you didn't touch the bit about the ME threads.

Saint Marcus · October 24, 2002, 10:46

Ming · October 24, 2002, 10:47

If you want to go at each other, do it somewhere else.

Let's stay on topic folks...

DanS · October 24, 2002, 10:48

What makes people think that attacking obvious innocents is a good tactic? What a fundamental miscalculation.

Eli · October 24, 2002, 11:07

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
What makes people think that attacking obvious innocents is a good tactic? What a fundamental miscalculation.

Because it IS a good tactic.

Lars-E · October 24, 2002, 11:12

Wonder if the Stockholm syndrome will manifest itself... Doesn't look like it so far...

lightblue · October 24, 2002, 11:13

BBC says that the woman who was stretchered out dead might have died of an illness too:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2357729.stm

DanS · October 24, 2002, 11:49

"Because it IS a good tactic."

Explain to me how this tactic will lead to Chechen independence.

Saint Marcus · October 24, 2002, 12:14

Chechens won't gain independence either way. They just want to take as many Russians with them when they go down.

VJ · October 24, 2002, 12:24

****. I hope that this doesn't get ugly.

Boris Godunov · October 24, 2002, 12:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Tuomerehu
****. I hope that this doesn't get ugly.

It's already ugly, alas.

(PS-Mobius has a pm from me, I am taking it off the board, but also find his posturing baffling considering ME threads.)

I do wonder how this will effect the Russian stance on Iraq at the UN. While not immediately related, this kind of action might make Russians more amenable to action provided the US be less vocal about what action they might take in Chechnya as a response.

Richelieu · October 24, 2002, 12:30

Explosions reported in the theatre

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe...ege/index.html

GePap · October 24, 2002, 13:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

I do wonder how this will effect the Russian stance on Iraq at the UN. While not immediately related, this kind of action might make Russians more amenable to action provided the US be less vocal about what action they might take in Chechnya as a response.

The situation won't change Russia's stand one bit: connections between Iraq and Chechnya are about 0, and since the Russians don't buy the Iraq-Al Qaeda connection anymore than I do, you won't see much change, as long as Saddam doesn't praise the chechen, which he would never do. Russia's gov and elite make foreign policy: they don't see Iraq as part of the 'war on terror', never have, and they still won't.

I think the sitation will end badly. It obvious that the demands wil not be met, and the track record for endidng these mass hostage situations is rather poor (about 100 killed back in '97 after 1000 hostages taken, and 78 killed in another hostage situation). The Chechens have gained much skill it seem, in their favorite type of attack within Russia, though this is obviously the most brazen and spectacular of them, since its in Moscow itself.

Serb · October 24, 2002, 13:50

Yes, it was confirmed that they killed one hostage yesterday- a 20 years old girl. The body was removed from theater.
Two 18 years girls managed to escape not so long ago. Terrorists opened fire from RPG, on them. There were two explosions. Fortunately they weren’t injured, however one specnaz fighter received light injury.
Also it was said again that citizens of 18 foreign countries among the hostages.

Quote:

Wonder if the Stockholm syndrome will manifest itself... Doesn't look like it so far...

It is already. They released one woman to make a declaration. It seems hostages already in deep psychological crisis and considers terrorists as their protectors.

Bereta_Eder · October 24, 2002, 13:55

Serb I am very sorry for all of this and I hope that everything will go as best as it can.

Serb · October 24, 2002, 14:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Chechens won't gain independence either way. They just want to take as many Russians with them when they go down.

Don’t use this Chechens=terrorists. A lot of Chechen people who live in Moscow offered themselves in exchange for hostages. The head of Chechnya Akhmad Kadyrov said that Chechens ready to help to solve the situation by any means. There are meetings in Chechnya to condemn terrorists.

Serb · October 24, 2002, 14:04

Thanks Paiktis I hope so.