next expansion pack - what civs do you want? - Page 3

Tiberius · October 29, 2002, 02:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Novaya Havoc
I see the enthusiasm for additional civs, but come on. The amazing armies of "The Grand Duchy of Poland-Lithuania CRUSHES THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!"?

"The Jews" fighting Russia?

Poland tackling America?

Polynesia becoming the cultural envy of the world?

As opposed to:

The amazing armies of Babylon crush The USA!?

or Zulu tackling America?

or Mongolia becoming the cultural envy of the world?

These sound better?

Quote:

What can you tell me that Poland-Lithuania has done that is not only HIGHLY influential, but also fairly common knowledge?

-One of the largest empires in Europe in the XVth - XVIth century
-The University of Cracow and Nicolaus Copernicus
-Defended Europe and Christianity against the ottomans for centuries.
-JanSobieski, who in 1683 defeated the Turks that were besieging Vienna
-Frederic Chopin
-Marie Curie
-Lech Walesa, the "Solidarity" labor union and the strikes of 1980
-Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II)

I'm not Polish and this is what I know.

Zealot · October 29, 2002, 07:48

Portuguese, damn it!

We have the 7th most spoken language in the world and we're not worth being in Civ?!?

aaglo · October 29, 2002, 08:32

Finns, damnit!

We are the most populous group in the Apolyton forums (at least according to the location survey during last spring)... And were not in Civ3 (not even as barbarians)

Tiberius · October 29, 2002, 09:30

Quote:

Originally posted by aaglo
Finns, damnit!

... And were not in Civ3 (not even as barbarians)

So we (hungarians) are more worthy than you

That's a shame! We are in and our relatives not! Please, we want finn barbarians

aaglo · October 29, 2002, 09:34

Or how about a fenno-hungarian coalition?

The coalition would force all it's subjects to talk language that sounds very funny to all non-speakers...

Ozymandias · October 29, 2002, 12:30

Quote:

Originally posted by aaglo
Or how about a fenno-hungarian coalition?

The coalition would force all it's subjects to talk language that sounds very funny to all non-speakers...

Just curious, aaglo -- how many people do you think realize that the Finno-Ugaritic (aka "Finno-Ugrian") language group is non-Indo-European and encompasses both Finnish and "Magyar" --ie, proto-Hungarian?

-Oz

Traelin · October 29, 2002, 13:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius
-One of the largest empires in Europe in the XVth - XVIth century
-The University of Cracow and Nicolaus Copernicus
-Defended Europe and Christianity against the ottomans for centuries.
-JanSobieski, who in 1683 defeated the Turks that were besieging Vienna
-Frederic Chopin
-Marie Curie
-Lech Walesa, the "Solidarity" labor union and the strikes of 1980
-Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II)

I'm not Polish and this is what I know.

Marie Curie was known for her work in France, at the Sorbonne and the University of Paris. Since she married a Frenchman, I assume she also became a French citizen.

We have to be careful with which countries we associate certain people. Associating Curie with Poland is kind of like associating Thomas Jefferson with Great Britain.

Traelin · October 29, 2002, 13:11

Quote:

Originally posted by nationalist
Poland should definately be included. Western Europe may be crowded, but Eastern Europe is not. I'd pick Poland over the Dutch. I'd also add the Finns.

Add the Incas and Mayans, along with two African Civs, preferably Mali and Ethiopia. (I agree with the person who said that there should be an African ethnicity. Make the Zulus African instead of Middle-Eastern.)

Add the Byzantines and possibly the Khmer or some other southeast Asian civ. Include the Hebrews, but don't add any more Mid-East civs after that. The mid-East is more saturated than Western Europe. After these civs are included, then add the Portugese and the Dutch.

Poland over the Dutch? No way, no how.

I've defended the Dutch in a ton of other posts and in other threads, so I'll save the regurgitation.

I agree with the Mayans and Incans. But I would only include the Incans as a priority over the Dutch for one reason, and that's only for those people who insist on playing Earth maps 24/7.

Randolph · October 29, 2002, 14:20

A good point, but a (very) poor example. A scientist that is born in one nation, but does most of her work in another is vastly different from a man who is a major player in a revolt against his “home” nation. I agree with your general point, but such a ridiculous example is annoying; I hardly think that Marie Curie was ready to go to war with Poland.

-proletarian- · October 29, 2002, 14:22

Screw more civs. All the essential ones are already either in the original game, or will be once PTW comes out. The only people wanting more civs now are the jilted citizens of dinky little countries who don't merit inclusion in the first place. This game needs more military general military units that every civ can build. It would also be nice if every single civ had their own unique city graphics, instead of just belonging to one of 4 "culture groups". The Zulu were Arab? Who Knew?!

It would also be great if civs units had skin colour corresponding to their race. Why are the Zulu white-skinned, apart from the Impi? It would be great if the Indian units had brown skin, the Zulu had black, the Aztecs, Mongols were somewhere in-between.......

KaiserIsak · October 29, 2002, 16:13

I cant understand why you said the hebrews are a "shoe-in". I can not see that they have done anything special. They would be far down my list.

Traelin · October 29, 2002, 16:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Randolph
A good point, but a (very) poor example. A scientist that is born in one nation, but does most of her work in another is vastly different from a man who is a major player in a revolt against his “home” nation. I agree with your general point, but such a ridiculous example is annoying; I hardly think that Marie Curie was ready to go to war with Poland.

My point was that Curie received her fame in France, and I'm sure became a citizen of France when she married Pierre. So it doesn't matter where you're born or with whom your allegiances once resided, because they can change pretty quickly.

EDIT: A better analogy would be Alexander Graham Bell, who was Scottish but became an American citizen and received most of his fame over here.

monkspider · October 29, 2002, 16:51

They're a shoe-in because they are famous and most people want them in, and they're marketable. Whatever you think of their acomplishments is debatable. But there is no doubt that they are a popular civ and a civ that will move units, so to speak.

nationalist · October 29, 2002, 17:00

Quote:

Originally posted by -proletarian-
Screw more civs. All the essential ones are already either in the original game, or will be once PTW comes out. The only people wanting more civs now are the jilted citizens of dinky little countries who don't merit inclusion in the first place.

I agree with you that Canada, Brazil, and other states should be excluded, but I don't see how it could hurt by adding more legitimate civilizations, especially those who represent areas that are as of now not very represented (South America, Africa) It would add more variety to the game. I also agree that more general units should be added.

Quote:

It would also be great if civs units had skin colour corresponding to their race. Why are the Zulu white-skinned, apart from the Impi? It would be great if the Indian units had brown skin, the Zulu had black, the Aztecs, Mongols were somewhere in-between.......

Good Idea!

ChrisiusMaximus · October 29, 2002, 19:03

Havent read through this whole thread but what about the Innuit or Eskimo, their UU could be a kayak not sure what traits theyd have though?

GoodFella · October 29, 2002, 22:41

Joseph Conrad (most famous for Heart of Darkness upon which the movie Apocalypse Now is based) was also Polish.

bigvic · October 30, 2002, 02:02

working on that magic #500. getting tired of my drone

monkspider · October 30, 2002, 02:34

Don't give up Vic

I still stand by 7 picks
Shoe-ins
1. Hebrews
2. Inca
3. Dutch
4. Byzantines

other possible Firaxis picks
5. Songhai/Mali
6. Portugese
7. Khmer

I would add the Maya on there for sure (probably replacing Khmer or Portugese), but I just don't if Firaxis can make them unique enough from the Inca and Aztecs to include them.

Tattila the Hun · October 30, 2002, 08:55

Finns and Atlanteans! Finnish special unit would be either Ski Infantry (far patrol man, like Larry Thorne

), or hakkapeliitta.

I was quite amused, when in Civ2, my ski infantry would move 3 blocks in desert...

KaiserIsak · October 30, 2002, 11:05

I disagree that the hebrews are s shoe-in. They are popular, yes, but i think the impact on history should be considered first, and they are therefore not even close to getting in, at least for me.
The khmer should definatly be added, so should the mayas, the incas, the songhais/malis, the ethiopians, the timurids, the tibetans, and the polish as well.

Traelin · October 30, 2002, 11:13

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Don't give up Vic

I still stand by 7 picks
Shoe-ins
1. Hebrews
2. Inca
3. Dutch
4. Byzantines

other possible Firaxis picks
5. Songhai/Mali
6. Portugese
7. Khmer

I would add the Maya on there for sure (probably replacing Khmer or Portugese), but I just don't if Firaxis can make them unique enough from the Inca and Aztecs to include them.

Well now that you mention the Mayans and Portuguese, I've decided to update my Civ "must have list".

Here they are, in order from most important to least important:

1. Incans
2. Dutch
3. Hebrews
4. Ethiopians
5. W. African Civ (TBD)
6. Portuguese
7. Mayans

bigvic · October 30, 2002, 13:45

hebrews make my list - i mean founders of judaism from which sprang christianity and islam, accounting for the faiths of probably over half the world? plus, if we took all the famous and civilization contributing jews from all history, they would probably outshine anyone else. part of the game is the "what if" aspect of course, impossible to say how many of these brilliant jews would have been so illustrious without the dispersion and all it entailed, but, crap, these guys managed to maintain their cultural/ethinic identity for almost 2000 years despite not having a nation of their own, despite (and perhaps because of) nearly constant persecution (hell, i'd have convertd to whatever the accepted religion was!) and finally to return to the world scene against all odds and reemerge the way they did. talk about the settler on a galley! lol

portuguese - well, they made brazil. they established trading posts worldwide, two of which did not cease til mid 20th century, goa and macao. colonized angola and mozambique, circumnavigated the world, etc.

dutch - northern european version of portuguese in many ways, just got ganked by the english who copied them and survived as a result of geography and size.

mali/songhai - need another african civ. plus, if you check this much overlooked chapter of history, you find they were pretty impressive, with a wide spanning trade/caravan empire that could put into field an army ten times as large as any contemporary european power, possibly sent a fleet off to the new world (ever seen those strangely african monolithic heads in central america?), etc...

incas - oh firaxis....how could you have chosen ottomans and not incas? really! south american space filler aside, there was so much more.......

Khmer/indochina - no insult intended, but the main point i make for these guys is the space filler hypothesis. need another asian civ and its the best choice in my opinion

polynesia - i just think they are so cool. also something of a space filler, but these guys did some amazing things in terms of expansion. fascinating what ifs there if they could have had a bit more land to work with. would love to see a galley type outrigger UU also

Hate to nix poles, but despite their size and achievements, well, just can't fit 'em. also hate to not have mayas, but aztecs fill in that space. as far as crowding western europe, well, nothing is perfect and i think you have to look at things like worldwide historical impact and i find it hard to discout holland and portugal in this area......

Heresson · October 30, 2002, 20:27

Quote:

Marie Curie was known for her work in France, at the Sorbonne and the University of Paris. Since she married a Frenchman, I assume she also became a French citizen.

We have to be careful with which countries we associate certain people. Associating Curie with Poland is kind of like associating Thomas Jefferson with Great Britain.

Not at all - there was no Polish state at this time, and most of Polish elite emigrated to the west or to Turkey, which didn't change a bit their national identity.