October 30, 2002, 17:36
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#361
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King
Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Heres a non CNN site for the confimration of Fentanyl. Fez, wrong again. 
http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.ps...30155325280253
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"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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October 30, 2002, 17:42
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#362
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
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Posts: 4,659
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Yep, Fentanyl aerosol confirmed.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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October 30, 2002, 17:43
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#363
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King
Local Time: 10:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scio Me Nihil Scire
Posts: 2,532
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told you so 
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Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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October 30, 2002, 17:47
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#364
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Posts: 4,659
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Told me what?
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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October 30, 2002, 17:48
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#365
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King
Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Nothing on Pravda yet. But of course that just confirms that the source is unreliable.
Does anyone know if there is an antidote for Fentanyl?
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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October 30, 2002, 17:51
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#366
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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I may be wrong... but this is even less bad than I was making out to be. BZ Gas is more dangerous than Fentanyl.
It only makes you look more stupid.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 18:12
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#367
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King
Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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How do I lookmore stupid? Because I'm right and you're wrong?
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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October 30, 2002, 18:23
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#368
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King
Local Time: 10:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scio Me Nihil Scire
Posts: 2,532
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Fez is always wrong
first tear gas
than BZ
__________________
Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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October 30, 2002, 18:23
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#369
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King
Local Time: 10:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Scio Me Nihil Scire
Posts: 2,532
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Quote:
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Does anyone know if there is an antidote for Fentanyl?
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there is one.
__________________
Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit
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October 30, 2002, 18:26
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#370
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: USA
Posts: 3,197
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If these guys had come into an American hospital comatose they'd have been administered the antidote as a matter of standard protocol. When the staff noticed that they awakened within a minute of being given the antidote they'd have alerted all hospitals in the vicinity to pool their supplies.
__________________
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
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October 30, 2002, 19:10
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#371
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King
Local Time: 09:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: of Xanadu, Scottish Section of the Apolyton Must Crush Capitalism Party
Posts: 1,529
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I think I heard Putin had 85% of the population supporting his way to "deal with the situation". Did anyone heard about this ?
__________________
"Just because you're paranoid doesnt mean there's not someone following me..."
"I shall return and I shall be billions"
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October 30, 2002, 19:22
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#372
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
How do I lookmore stupid? Because I'm right and you're wrong?
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I wondering did you or Marcus ever suggest it was this gas before? You are just wrong as I am until the Russians announced it. I was just following the opinion of a few experts.
You are never right.
Marcus go to hell... you know you are always wrong... you can't make up your damn mind...
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 19:23
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#373
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Pandemoniak
I think I heard Putin had 85% of the population supporting his way to "deal with the situation". Did anyone heard about this ?
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I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 19:34
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#374
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Emperor
Local Time: 05:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: USA
Posts: 3,197
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The antidote for Fentanyl is the same as the antidote for any opiod, narcan or naltrexone. All opiods work by binding encephlan recepors in the brain. Encephlans are naturally occuring polypeptides used as neurotransmitters at certain synapses, especially those in the spinal cord and brain stem which modulate the transmission of pain signals to the brain. Narcan competitively inhibits the binding of opiods to these receptors blocking the effect of the opiod.
__________________
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
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October 30, 2002, 19:40
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#375
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King
Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
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I think I was the first to report here that it was an anesthetic - I quoted a 17 year old hostage to that effect. I think the Germans and American doctors figured out that the boy was right and name the compound.
Saint Marcus, regarding Waco, I beleive they used tear gas. What they should have used, in hindsight, is the same gas as the Russians used. At least then some of the "hostages" would have lived.
The question is, what will governments do about using anesthetics in this fashion for the future? I suspect that governments will use them, but also learn from the mistakes of the Russians. They will provide adequate on-sight antidotes that will keep at least the hostages alive.
What are your views, Saint Marcu, Axi?
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http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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October 30, 2002, 19:51
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#376
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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The actions were totally irresponsible on the part of the Russian authorities. 
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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October 30, 2002, 19:54
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#377
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Deity
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
The actions were totally irresponsible on the part of the Russian authorities.
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What would you had done? Remember withdrawing from Chechnya wasn't an option.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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October 30, 2002, 19:54
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#378
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King
Local Time: 01:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Fez
I wondering did you or Marcus ever suggest it was this gas before? You are just wrong as I am until the Russians announced it. I was just following the opinion of a few experts.
You are never right.
Marcus go to hell... you know you are always wrong... you can't make up your damn mind...
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I didnt suggest it first because I didnt have a clue. However, you wanted to seem smart, so you racked your brains and came up with the only gas you could think of: tear gas. Problem is, you were wrong.
I can't be wrong until I have made a statement. I didn't make a statement until I knew I was right.
Now since the Russians have announced it, I'm right and you're wrong.
This contradicts your statement that I am never right. Too bad Fez, wrong again.
'How many times must Fez be wrong, before he realizes he's wrong? The answer is blowing in the wind.'
Ned, the problem now, as someone else pointed out, is that the next time the terrorists will do something as terrible as this, they will bring either an antidote, or more realistically, they will bring gas masks. God knows how easy it is to get your hands on this stuff in Russia.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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October 30, 2002, 19:59
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#379
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King
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
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Well, toot toot, I, like all real Americans, don't give a damn about the blantant propaganda spouted by scumbag anarchist Islamic terrorist sympathizers. 
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October 30, 2002, 20:06
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#380
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Quote:
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What would you had done?
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Well, I'd start with attempts at negotiation, perhaps be more inquisitive about the nature of this mystery gas, and just maybe cooperate with the hospitals.
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Quote:
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Remember withdrawing from Chechnya wasn't an option.
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Why wasn't it?
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Last edited by Ramo; October 30, 2002 at 20:15.
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October 30, 2002, 20:15
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#381
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Deity
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
Well, I'd start with attempts at negotiation,
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That was being done. This was the result:
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Quote:
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The new demands were brought out of the theater just before midnight Friday by Anna Politkovskaya, a Russian journalist who is respected by Chechens for her reporting on the war and was called in by the rebels to mediate.
Politkovskaya said the gunmen had told here they were "going to wait only a little while" before they started killing hostages.
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...eater_raid_166
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Quote:
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and perhaps being more inquisitive about the nature of this mystery gas.
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They already knew what the nature of the gas was. They deployed it.
It was an extremely unrealistic demand in the first place.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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October 30, 2002, 20:20
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#382
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Quote:
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That was being done. This was the result:
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Interesing, I hadn't heard that.
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They already knew what the nature of the gas was. They deployed it.
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I'm not sure how the Russian authorities could have bungled the situation so badly if there was no confusion over its identity.
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It was an extremely unrealistic demand in the first place.
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Why?
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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October 30, 2002, 20:23
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#383
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King
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
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Because people with moral fibre never negotitate with terrorists. The proper way to handle terrorists is to kill them. Capture a few to torture for information and then kill them and all they name.
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October 30, 2002, 20:25
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#384
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King
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,657
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And follow up with reprisals at a seven for one ratio.
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October 30, 2002, 20:34
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#385
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Quote:
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Because people with moral fibre never negotitate with terrorists.
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Given the Russian government's actions (such as in Chechnya), I find it difficult to attribute any moral fiber to them.
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Quote:
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Capture a few to torture for information and then kill them and all they name.
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And we all know people never tell lies when tortured. 
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Quote:
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Well, toot toot, I, like all real Americans, don't give a damn about the blantant propaganda spouted by scumbag anarchist Islamic terrorist sympathizers.
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Missed this gem.
I don't give a damn about propaganda coming from ****witted racist fascist non-Islamic terrorist sympathizers.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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October 30, 2002, 20:39
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#386
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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I would give them twenty minutes to surrender or I will start:
1) Launching a military operation consisting of hundreds of MiGs in precision strikes in Chechyna.
2) Order the building to be stormed in twenty minutes.
Lawrence, fine I concede... you wanted that? Yes I was wrong. But don´t make a big deal about... I assumed it was tear gas at first... but when casualities pilled up I started to suspect it was BZ gas, now it is this one I never heard of. However the Russians still did a fine rescue.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 20:40
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#387
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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And we all know people never tell lies when tortured.
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I believe they have injections to prevent lies from being said.
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 20:43
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#388
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Quote:
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I believe they have injections to prevent lies from being said.
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__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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October 30, 2002, 20:44
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#389
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King
Local Time: 06:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,886
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
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Or I believe Hollywood too much... 
__________________
Lets face it. We flamiing queers have more appeal then Pat Robertson and other religious wackos. We have shows that are really growing in popularity. We have more channels (Q TV, Logo Channel). And we help people in their style issues (Queer Eye for the Straight Guy). The last thing I saw a religious preacher did was ask for $5 in a "generous pledge" to help his bank account in Zurich, erhm, some starving kids in Zimbabwe.
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October 30, 2002, 20:45
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#390
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Deity
Local Time: 04:52
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Ramo
I'm not sure how the Russian authorities could have bungled the situation so badly if there was no confusion over its identity.
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It wasn't confusion about the nature of the gas that bungled the operation, it was an obsession with secrecy.
The government was not in a position to negotiate on that point. That left little bargaining room. I am not oppossed to negotiating with terrorists as long as room for negotiation exists. The US has done it before and will likely do it again in the future.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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