The State of the Nation, 770 AD: THE LOST CIVS SPECIAL EDITION!

Reddawg · October 27, 2002, 16:24

This is a special "Lost Civs" edition of The State of the Nation report. Some processes have been reworked to incorporate the inclusion of China, Zululand, and India into the stats, and thus not all analysis is comparable to the last edition in 580 AD.

SUMMARY:

*The population of Apolytonia has swelled from 6,015,000 citizens in 580 AD to 9,898,000 citizens in 770 AD, a high growth rate of 64.6% that has maintained our position as most populous in the world! This is a rate of 20,436 people per year.
*Chart 1: breakdown of labor force.
*Macross City in the Île de Rose province is the official leading city of Apolyton, and is poised to become our first metropolis, with 815,000 citizens.
*Our glorious capital Apolyton is the official commercial hub of the entire empire; it alone garners 34 lytons into our coffers each turn.
*Apolyton is rivaled in industry by the recent Persian acquisition Contaginon, in the Persian Highlands province. Both cities produce 10 shields per turn; Contaginon will take the lead if corruption falls.
*Chart 2: Ethnicity in Apolyton

*Demographic highlights:
-Apolyton's approval rating is the highest ever in its 5,000 year history, thanks to the influx of luxuries from the Lost Civs, and now stands at 88%!
-The population of our nation continues to surpass that of all others, and is by far the largest in the world.
-The disease, on a bad note, continues to plague (pun intended) our society, though it is down slightly to 18% (still worst in the world, but an all-time low).
-The rest of the demographics speak of the sharp increase in both our industrial and commercial production. We are now first in the world in GDP, manufactured goods, average income, and productivity!

Current Regional Comparisons:
NOTE: these states are incomparable to previous State of the Nation addresses because of the new composition of the provinces.
•Mingapulco Province(currently Apolyton, Termina, Tassagard, Banana HQ, Gotham, Timeline, Gaia, Chartres):
2,477,000; 3.2% foreign (up); 25.0% of national population (down). 178 Lytons income; 65 shields output; 0 science output.

•Principality of Piña Colada (currently Del Monte, Chiquita, New York, San Cortes):
1,007,000; 19.9% foreign (up); 10.2% of national population (down). 34 Lytons income; 17 shields output; 0 science output.

•El Niño Province (currently Loveshack, Seeberg, Ubergorsk, Geofront, Napoleton, Oak Ridge):
1,029,000; 0.0% foreign (same); 10.4% of national population (same). 55 Lytons income; 22 shields output; 0 science output.

•Île de Rose (currently Here It Is, Macross City, Jerusalem, Port Rouge, Opiadom):
2,041,000; 6.5% foreign (down); 20.6% of national population (down). 78 Lytons income; 24 shields output; 0 science output.

•Uber Island (currently Another Glorious City, Boomtown, Whelsh Coast, Shiber Port, Thebes, Neon Uber City):
586,000; 0.0% foreign (same); 5.9% of national population (up). 27 Lytons income; 16 output; 0 science output.

•Persian Highland (currently Antioch, Willsbury, Contaginon, Ghengistown, Port of Malignance):
1,226,000; 12.6% foreign (down); 12.4% of national population (up). 37 Lytons income; 22 shields output; 0 science output.

•Persian Lowland (currently Muncie, Bacteria, Susa, Tarsus, Arbela):
1,306,000; 31.2% foreign (down); 13.2% of national population (up). 14 Lytons income; 11 output; 0 science output.

•Siberia (currently Holeinwall):
226,000; 0.0% foreign (same); 2.3% of national population (up). 1 Lytons income; 1 shields output; 0 science output.

Analysis: see Chart 3, regional comparisons

Foreign Comparisons:
*note: these stats are estimates based off of averages and cannot be made any more accurate by way of current knowledge of the country (and without cheating) thus all numbers are approximate*
~France = 1.225.000
~Greece = 7.195.000
~Aztec = 3.215.000
~Persia = 565.000
~England = 4.585.000
~America = kaput.
~Germany = 4.810.000
~Russia = 4.155.000
~Babylon = 2.295.000
~Rome = 5.025.000
~Iroquois = 2.050.000
~India = 5.690.000
~Zululand = 2.895.000
~China = 1.870.000
Analysis: Population of the known world rose to 50,663,000 from 30,670,00 for a growth rate of 65.2%, or 105,200 people per year.
The most interesting facts are on the Lost Civs. India has a very sizable population, in fact it is third in the known world. I have strong reason to believe the Japanese population is larger, and I know now that they were the nation that we only surpassed about 5 turnchats ago. Thus I expect, once we discover them, that they will be second in the world in population.

Population Density:
*due to currently unavailable estimates of foreign nations' land area, density is based on average city size.
^Apolytonia = 247.500 per city
^France = 153.100 per city
^Greece = 399.700 per city
^Aztec = 178.600 per city
^Persia = 141.300 per city
^England = 271.900 per city
^America = in ruins
^Germany = 437.300 per city
^Russia = 346.300 per city
^Babylon = 459.000 per city
^Rome = 358.900 per city
^Iroquois = 205.000 per city
^India = 355.600 per city
^Zululand = 413.600 per city
^ China = 170.000 per city
Analysis: Apolyton is finally increasing as far as city size, but remains secondary in this density factor. As the latest acquisitions and Uber Island grow, the density will take off. Note the high density of both India and, suprising, Zululand.

Military Stats:
*note:military stats are for the purpose of comparisons only, and are not absolute indications of strength; they are however adjusted to consider strength of units (to account for, example, that fact that 10 musketmen are better than 10 spearmen).*
+Total offensive power in 430AD is 72(1 naval); defensive is 90(1 naval); mobility is 56(3 naval); bombardment is 12.
+Total offensive power in 580AD is 93(1 naval); defensive is 129(1 naval); mobility is 78(3 naval); bombardment is 12.
+Total offensive power in 770AD is 142(3 naval); defensive is 160(4 naval); mobility is 103(9 naval); bombardment is 12
+Offensive power has grown a huge 52.7%.
+Defensive power has grown a good 24.0%.
+Mobility has grown a nice 32.1%.
+The number of total units has risen to 81!

Analysis: overall the military has taken leaps and bounds since the last State of the Nationa address; this is due almost completely to the fact that units have been upgraded (spearmen to musketmen, war chariots to knights, etc).

MAJOR POWERS: (any nation with 15% more points than the mean; Japan still not listed):
1. Apolyton, 81.1% above mean (astounding rise)
2. Greece, 32.3% above mean (a small rise)
3. India, 31.4% above mean
4. Rome, 17.9% above mean
*It is truly amazing how our nation is now dominating all other civs, to the point that we double the weakest powers! As expected, India qualifies as a major power; look for Japan to join the ranks, perhaps even above Greece. Rome also rejoins the ranks this time, by the skin of its teeth. There is again a multipolarity occuring.*

MAJOR GROWERS: (any nation with 2% more growth than the mean; "lost civs" not listed):
1. Apolyton, 19.9% above mean (a great rise)
2. Aztecs, 5.8% above mean.
*note: The superiority of Apolyton has remains painfully evident this time around. The growth of the Aztecs is no doubt due to their acquisitions during the American war. From now on, any major powers are going to have to go through drastic internal development, or large territorial conquest, in order to make this list.

Overall Suggestions to Ministers:
1. The lost civs final put a strong outside influence into the game that should be nice to play off of. Already the trade deals with the lost civs have taken a big effect; ministers should keep in mind these civs as well as prepare for Japan, which is going to be a Major Power.
2. Apolyton is so far ahead of all others now that it may be prudent to maintain good relations with our neighbors; otherwise they may seek to topple us to restore the balance of power. Deals with India and later Japan may be in our best interest to deter the Abanaba powers from attacking us.
3. The Aztecs have the potential to become a serious Major Power, and one that would threaten us more than any other. They should be watched carefully.
4. It is possible that some of the second tier powers will seek to annex the weaker nations in an attempt to gain power; we should prevent this as it would cause us to face fewer, stronger states instead of many weaker and disjointed states.
5. Corruption is atrocious in the Persian Lands: in the Lowlands for instance, corruption outnumbers income by about 7:1!

*note: three charts follow*

If you wish for any further or statistics, or have any questions, contact Reddawg, Minster of Economy.

Reddawg · October 27, 2002, 16:26

Chart 2: Ethnicity.

Reddawg · October 27, 2002, 16:28

Chart 3: Regions.

Jon Shafer · October 27, 2002, 18:48

Impressive and interesting.

Reddawg · October 27, 2002, 23:12

Anyone care to make wagers on how far above the mean the Japanese will be on the Major Power list?? I'm taking friendly bids :-p

I say 30%, and third in the world over all.

Shiber · October 28, 2002, 04:36

It's alarming that only 50% of our workers are domestic. Keep in mind people, that we pay as much upkeep for a domestic industrious worker as we pay for a foreign non-industrious slave.
We need to gradually replace our slaves with domestic workers by joining slaves into cities and building domestic workers instead. Building a new worker costs 10 shields, but you save money in the long run because domestic workers cost as much upkeep but work faster, so you'd need less workers to complete the same jobs.

nz_upy · October 28, 2002, 04:41

I always thought that you didnt need to pay upkeep for slaves.

Harovan · October 28, 2002, 05:53

Slaves are for free and take over our industriousness. So a captured worker works for us as fast as a normal worker for a non-industrious civ with the difference, that he doesn't cost upkeep. Don't add the slaves, at the countrary, buy/capture more slaves and add our native workers to the cities.

BigFurryMonster · October 28, 2002, 08:09

Sir Ralph is correct. More sl.. eh ... foreign employees!

Randolph · October 28, 2002, 08:26

Do they work at the same rate or at 75%? In other words is it: 1*(1- .5 + .5) or (1 - .5) *(1. + .5) (not sure that's the best way to write it, but it seems the most descriptive to me).

Harovan · October 28, 2002, 08:30

It's 100% * 50% * 200%

.

MrWhereItsAt · October 28, 2002, 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Reddawg
Anyone care to make wagers on how far above the mean the Japanese will be on the Major Power list?? I'm taking friendly bids :-p

I say 30%, and third in the world over all.

I go for 25% and 3rd overall.

It must be hard being so alone.....

Randolph · October 28, 2002, 09:04

Have you tested that or is it just speculation? For some reason I though that the industrious bonus was 50% not 100%... guess I need to check myself more often. I also thought that all bonuses in civ added not multiplied such that (for say 6 defense, on hills and fortified) 6*(1 + 1 + .25) not 6*200%*125%... I'm rather sure this is true for attack/defense. Sorry I'm straying form the topic quite severely.

Harovan · October 28, 2002, 09:17

Have you tested that or is it just speculation?

Other than production or defense bonuses, the industious workers have no bonus (which would be added), but work with doubled speed. The speed of captured workers is halved.

Thus:

100% = normal worker
100% * 200% = industrious worker (doubled speed)
100% * 50% = captured worker (halved speed)
100% * 50% * 200% = worker captured by an industrious civilization (doubled halved speed)

And yes, I and many others have tested it multiple times.

GhengisFarb™ · October 28, 2002, 09:29

I would much prefer foriegn workers, we just don't seem to have a steady supply. I'm planning on using the domestic workers to clear and road the jungle then join them back to cities and do the mining/irrigating with foreign nationals.

Randolph · October 28, 2002, 09:38

It was just speculation. How do you think a domestic industrious worker under democracy and after replaceable parts will work:

100%*200%*150%*200% = 600%
100% +100%+50% +100% = 350%

I’ve always thought that it was the second way in each case, but I certainly have no proof. It just seems strange to me that they would multiply, i.e. that a “doubling” bonus would have a greater absolute increase if there were already other bonuses in effect. Though if you’ve tested it than your probably right. I think I got the notion that they are added from my civ 1 strategy guide which, containing much more ‘mechanics’ info than any current strategy guide, showed them being added. Of course they could have changed the mechanics, or my memory could be failing me.

FrustratedPoet · October 28, 2002, 09:59

Reddawg is a genius.

Reddawg · October 28, 2002, 10:18

Whooaa, I don't know about this worker business, I haven't "tested". But... it seems to me that if a domestic worker gets our industrious bonus, it is going to be faster than a slave who gets the 50% penalty as well as our bonus. So domestic workers ARE still better.

But look at it this way: preserving these slaves is the only way of preserving their cultures. If we kill of the French, it won't be long before the last 150k or so French nationals in our cities are absorbed. The Americans will be gone even sooner. So these slaves just serve as a reminder of their cultures

MrWIA, I got your bet. Anyone else gonna place a bid???

Frustrated Poet, thx! I don't think I've ever seen you post here before.

Reddawg · October 28, 2002, 10:22

There was a mistake in the Foreign Comparisons, I just fixed it. Here is what it says now:

Analysis: Population of the known world rose to 50,663,000 from 30,670,00 for a growth rate of 65.2%, or 105,200 people per year.
The most interesting facts are on the Lost Civs. India has a very sizable population, in fact it is third in the known world. I have strong reason to believe the Japanese population is larger, and I know now that they were the nation that we only surpassed about 5 turnchats ago. Thus I expect, once we discover them, that they will be second in the world in population.

Shiber · October 28, 2002, 14:05

I didn't know that slaves do not require upkeep. I figured they do because you have to pay maintenance for their tools etc'.
Anyway, I'm glad to hear that I was wrong and I now support gradually replacing our domestic workers with slaves like Sir Ralph suggested.

Reddawg · October 28, 2002, 16:56

I'm not sure any reworking of the Labor Force is worthwhile; in fact, I don't think it is at all.

joncnunn · October 28, 2002, 17:49

I think we can use just about every single worker (both domestic & foreign) we can get our hands on currently.

We still have jungles to clear to eradicate the diseases that are plaging our nation.

Steam Power & Sanitation are also right around the corner. These will combine to make us need railroad everywhere within our cultural boundary. (Except on the very few squares outside all CRs)

Once those two major tasks are done, then it will be the time to retire our doemstic workers to cities followed by freeing slaves whose civ is completely gone (currently America, but some other civs may be added to this list) while retaining all other slaves for polution control.

Sean · October 28, 2002, 18:52

joncnunn,

You are absolutely correct. We need as many workers as we can get, from where ever we can get them.

Sean.

Reddawg · October 28, 2002, 19:17

Ok I guess it's true that once railroads are 100% done we can 'retire' the domestic part of our labor force; we'll always need some workers to clear pollution and such. I guess some slaves will suffice }:-p

Reddawg · October 29, 2002, 13:02

((bump))
anyone else gonna wager what place Japan will be on the Major Power list?

realpolitic · October 29, 2002, 16:00

Quote:

5. Corruption is atrocious in the Persian Lands: in the Lowlands for instance, corruption outnumbers income by about 7:1!

How about building some workers from there?

Reddawg · October 29, 2002, 18:18

humm I dunno... that'd be mainly up to the Public Works minister. I think there are more pressing things than workers/slaves.

E_T · October 30, 2002, 04:47

We have 1128 Lytons with an Income of 552 LPT. The listed cost are for 820AD.

Perviously approved rushes:
New York - Cathedral for 220L. . Originally budgeted for 216L. Next Phase of Flip ‘em off. Subtract 8/Turn.
Willsbury - Court for 92L. Originally budgeted for 112L. Subtract 20/turn.
Total under budget = 16L.
These were not rushed because the 820 turn wasn’t complete and I had given Instructions that they were to be rushed at the end of the turn, in case the funds had to be used for other things.

Other Rushes Needed:
Muncie - Court for 124L. Subtract 32/turn. Last chance to rush will be in 840AD as a throughput rush for about 60L.
Bacteria - Court for 128L. Subtract 16/turn.
Antioch - Court for 164L. Subtract 8/turn.
Shiberport - Court for 192L. Subtract 12/turn.
Welsh Coast - Court for 196L. Subtract 4/turn.
Tarsus - Court for 204L. Subtract 4/turn.
Thebes - Court for 208L. Subtract 12/turn
Hole in the Wall - Court for 228L. Subtract 4/turn
Ghengistown - Court for 228L. Subtract 12/turn.
Napoleton - Court for 240L. Subtract 4/turn.
Susa - Court for 252L. Subtract 4/turn.
San Cortez - Court for 276L. Subtract 12/turn.

As New York & Willsbury already have been previously budgeted, they are only included to show the adjusted amount and for proper planning of additional funding.

As we are currently at war with France, I’m also requesting some funds that will be needed to rush (at least) one turn builds of Workers, Settlers & Temples in the newly Acquired Cities. As they will be under SMC control until they come out of Resistance, I have no Idea when these will occur. I also Request 75 to 150 Emergency Rush fund, to be used in case of Emergency. Both of these can be combined and used as needed, but only for Workers & Settlers (we are exploring combining two cities)

I would like to have the following, within the stated timeline:
turn 0: New York & Willsbury for 312L (previously approved)

turn 1: Muncie (92) & Bacteria (112) for a total of 204L.

turn 2: Antioch (148) & Shiberport (168) for a total of 316L.

turn 3: Welsh Coast(184) & Tarsus (192) for a total of 376L.

turn 4: Thebes (160) & Hole in the Wall (212) for a total of 372L.

turn 5: Ghengistown (168) & Napoleton (220) for a total of 388L.

turn 6 (next turnchat): Susa (228) & San Cortex (204) for a total of 432L.

Even though the FP should be complete in 12 turns, getting this list of Courthouses out of the way will go a long way to helping the next builds and our Economy. Some of them might be somewhat redundant at the start (because of proximity to the FP), but after the cities in question get some of the other Improvements, they would have needed the Courthouse at that time to be fully cost effective. So they aren’t a total waste.

As we have a few libraries and with more that will be coming online during the GA, could we have the Science slider % changed to take advantage of them? I’m fully aware that that could effect my budget, but we’ll need the tech to trade soon.

E_T

E_T · November 7, 2002, 19:49

THIS HAS BEEN REVISED due to an Item that I missed

and the decision by the MoIE to keep Avignon (

I was just about to post my first revised Budget request when I had seen his orders post)

I had also posted this in the Orders Thread. I'm including Aggies Requests, too.

Quote:

Originally posted by Aggie
Since Reddawgs Mailbox is full, here are my money request
6 pike to Musket(on border)-360
1knight to calvary-20
Total = 380
A note, if an extra 40 can be found I would upgrade 2spear to musk on the border instead of just 6 pike(for a total of 2spear and 4pike to Musket-400)
Aggie

This also takes in to account the SMC Budget Requests.

We have 739 Lytons with an income of 368 LPT. SMC has requested 380 to 420 Lytons for Upgrades (which can be done over the next 5 turns). Approx. 84/turn - leaving 284/turn and assuming 300L cash Reserve for emergencies

Besancon - Settler for 116L, subtract 4/T - Will Abandon this City

Tours - Worker Farm, to be abandoned - Worker for 28L, subtract 4/T; 2 more after 1 turn builds for 36L each, subtract 4/T.
Grenobie - Worker Farm, to be abandoned - Worker after turn 1 for 28L, subtract 4/T, 2-4 more after 1 turn builds for 36L each, subtract 4/T.

Avignon - Temple for 116L after turn 1 , subtract 4/T.
Heliopolis - Temple for 116L, subtract 4/T
Site 3 City (to be built on turn 2) - after turn 3, Temple for 116L, subtract 4/T

New York - Courthouse for 260L, subtract 20/T
San Cortez - Courthouse for 236L, subtract 8/T
Susa - Courthouse for 232L, subtract 4/T
Hole in the Wall - Courthouse 208L, subtract 4/T
Ghengistown - Courthouse for 140L, subtract 20/T
Napoleton - Courthouse for 220L, Subtract 4/T.

Tarsus - Worker for 36L, subtract 4/T

Timeline of budget outlays:
Turn 0: 739L in Treasury at start
SMC - Spearman to Musket for 80L.
SMC - Knight to Cavalry for 20L.
Heliopolis - Temple for 116L
Ghengistown - Courthouse for 140L
Tours - Worker for 28L
Total for turn 0 - 284L + 100L(SMC) = 384L, leaving 355L in Treasury

Turn 1: 355 + 368 = 723L
SMC - Spearman to Musket for 80L.
Hole in the Wall - Courthouse for 204L
Grenobie - Worker for 28L
Tarsus - Worker for 32L
Total for turn 1 - 264L + 80L(SMC) = 344L, leaving 379L in Treasury

Turn 2: 379 - 368 = 747L
SMC - Pikeman to Musket for 60L
Besancon - Settler for 108L, abandoning City
San Cortez - Courthouse for 220L.
Total for turn 2 - 328L + 60L(SMC) = 388L, leaving 359L in Treasury

Turn 3: 359 + 368 = 727L
SMC - Pikeman to Musketman for 60L
New York - Courthouse for 200L
Avignon - Temple for 108L
Total for turn 3 - 308L + 60L(SMC) = 368L, leaving 359L in Treasury

Turn 4: 359 + 368L = 727L
SMC - Pikeman to Musketman for 60L
Napoleton - Courthouse for 204L.
Site 3 City - Temple for 112L
Tours - Worker for 28L
Grenobie - Worker for 32L
Total for turn 4 - 376L + 60L(SMC) = 436L, leaving 291L in Treasury

Turn 5: 291 + 368L = 659L
SMC - 2 Pikeman to Musketmen for 120L
Susa - Courthouse for 212L
Total for turn 5 - 212L + 120L(SMC) = 332L. leaving 327L in Treasury.

This Request is FINAL. I'm using this timeline for my orders, but will have them marked as not approved Yet

Also, we have 4 turns of Research on Democracy left to complete, We might be able to turn down the Science % in turn 1 or after (while still having complete on time), and that would release more funds to our Treasury on the following turns.

E_T