The Glory of War

[korn469]

donegeal

Why add needless beauracratic red tape to something that should be able to be done anyway? What you are proposing is exteremly inefficent

the democracy games are extremely inefficent to begin with, every single group decision and every single vote is time consuming and wasteful compared to letting one person make all of the choices, but since we all want to do this and not a normal pbem we are saying screw efficency, lets have fun making choices as a team

Your right, the Ruler would be able to make changes and only tell you afterward. Its his call. Does an Emperor or High King need to ask a Count if he can do something?

to counter that, you could assassinate or rebel against an emperor in real life, but real life and this game have little in common

The difference between real life feudal system and the system I propose is the No-Con vote. That Count would just have to take the unannounced change in the rear and be happy he's still a Count. With the No-Con, that Count can stand up for himself.

haha, in real life feudal systems there is no central authority, the king was usually the most powerful lord but not always, the kings that had the level of power you're proposing either came before or after the feudal age in the west

the emperor's of rome, the kings of france shortly before the revolution, the czars of russia, those were the ones that could do whatever they thought was best, but none of those are an example of a feudal system

Lets put it another way. Lets say your the Ruler, and I'm a City-King. We are at war and we need Knights or Pike to continue the war efforts. I'm building a Courthouse in my city on the front. You want a Knight. Under my proposal, you make the change for the greater good of the empire. Under your proposal, you ask an underling if you can change something that you see as something needed for the empire (after all, it is the rulers job to guide the empire)

well for starters we will get probably at least three days with the old save game to plot out our future moves and then we'll have a full day with the save to make the move, so the team leader will have time to consult with his teammates about builds, and if we aren't discussing strategy as a team then why are we playing a team game?

I say no. Now you have to go to the polls to see if you can do you job of looking out for the greater good of the empire. Now imagine that its not just me. Imagine if there are four City-Kings who don't want to change. Look at all the red tape and posting that is going to be needed just to do something that you think is plainly obviously for the greater good of the empire,

if you are overriding almost half of the team then under your system they are going to call a no-contest vote on you, and once again unless this is the most dire of situations requiring a split second decision (of which i think there probably won't be any in a pbem game) no one person should decide for the team what is best for the good of the empire

Now lets look at it from a peaceful situation (or at least no pressing need ). Knowing that overriding a build pisses off City-Kings and could get you thrown out of office (at which time the build could be changed back anyway), would you use the override power?

first thing you might not get thrown out of office, and then if the next emperor abuses his power in the exact same way just on different people perhaps then the no-con vote was pointless and basically you don't choose between liberty or freedom you choose which player is going to change your build queue...basically if the emperors do it enough they will essentially take the power to set the build queue from the kings and get it for themselves, so unless we put in some checks and balances we might as well just go ahead and say the emperor decides build queues

again, i think the emperor is just one person on the team and their opinion shouldn't count any more than anyone elses, and to me the more power any one player has in relation to the rest of the team, the less reason the rest of the team has to play the game

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by donegeal
Server: Apolyton.net
Room:#civ3gloryofwar

I have never been able to connect to ANYTHING at Apolynet. Today appears no different.....

[Donegeal]

Chat switched to Undernet. same room (#civ3gloryofwar)

[korn469]

GhengisFarb

i can't connect either
i have icq, yahoo, or msn if the group wants to chat on one of those

[Donegeal]

Crap, I have none of those...

[korn469]

well let me go download mirc and see if that works, because for some reason since i downloaded the jre for limewire java chats don't work on my computer

[Ennet]

Originally posted by donegeal

B. House of Kings

1. Composed of all Kings, including the Emperor.
2. One vote for each population point in city controled by King.
3. Kingless cities are not represented.

I think there should be some base votes, so that big pop differances in the beginning wont make things too unbalanced. Etc. You get 5 votes + number of votes equal to the population in your cities, this will make it more equal in the beginning but wont make too much difference in later parts of the game.

[GhengisFarb™]

So, it looks like we'll be playing the "C Civ" (I'm lazy and don't want to keep typing Celts)

What faction names are we going with this civ?

[Ennet]

rofl "C Civ" is as long as Celts and contains two capital letters

[Aggie]

I've decided that I going to join the Kill them all team, aka the Glory of war team.
Aggie

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by Ennet
rofl "C Civ" is as long as Celts and contains two capital letters

As opposed to "Celt Civilization"?

What's wrong with the C Civ?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
So, it looks like we'll be playing the "C Civ" (I'm lazy and don't want to keep typing Celts)

What faction names are we going with this civ?

well, two would be the easiest. this is from some very minor research:

"Celtic is broken into two groups, Gaelic and Brythonic. Gaelic encompasses Ireland, Scotland, and Manx (Isle of Man). Brythonic includes Cumbrian, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton (France)."

We could also choose a few of those subgroups: Irish, Scottish, Welsh, etc.

[Inverse Icarus]

i have to pick a realistic one? no kruxidians?

oh well. i call Gaelic (or Irish) depending on how you break it up.

[GhengisFarb™]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


well, two would be the easiest. this is from some very minor research:

"Celtic is broken into two groups, Gaelic and Brythonic. Gaelic encompasses Ireland, Scotland, and Manx (Isle of Man). Brythonic includes Cumbrian, Welsh, Cornish, and Breton (France)."

We could also choose a few of those subgroups: Irish, Scottish, Welsh, etc.

I'm thinking 3-5 subgroups. You did get today's memo on this discussion, did you not, UnOrthO?

Originally posted by UberKruX
i have to pick a realistic one? no kruxidians?

oh well. i call Gaelic (or Irish) depending on how you break it up.

I see nothing wrong with making them up.

How about the Ghengals?

Did you get the memo?

[Inverse Icarus]

memo? what memo

[Inverse Icarus]

all hail uberkrux warlord of the kruxidians!

[UnOrthOdOx]

I haven't got any reports from the chat yet. Couldn't get irc to work from my laptop

[Panzer32]

I was at the chat, but had to leave early. There was only me, Donegeal, and Ennet. All three of us wanted to play as the Chineese, for their militaristic and industrious traits, as well as the UU rider, which replaces knight. I am not familiar with the Celts; what is their traits and UU?

[Spiffor]

militaristic religious
A very powerful combination for the warmonger...

[Panzer32]

militaristic religious

OK thats good also. What is their UU? I looked to see if I could find it, but I couldn't.

[Inverse Icarus]

Celtic swordsmen, 3/2/2

[Ennet]

Welcome Aggie nice to have you abroad

[Panzer32]

The fast Swordsman may be good, although we would have to get going earlier than we would with the Chineese rider.

[Donegeal]

Yes! All Hail the Glory of Aggie! .... er um... I mean War!

I will add you to the list, General Aggie...

[UnOrthOdOx]

Well, if we are forming clans already, I would like to head a Druidic clan, centering on Religion, (and religous conquest/sacrifices). Now, to find us a nice forrest tile to make our sacred circle of Oaks...

[Donegeal]

THIS IS NOT A BINDING DOCUMENT
Citizens

A. Emperor

1. Plays the game.
2. Must appoint High Kings (described in Article I-B).
   a. High King of Forgien Affairs. Required.
   b. High King of Military Affairs. Required.
   c. High King of Internal Affairs. Required.
   d. Others as needed.
   e. Orders of High Kings must be followed.
3. Sole power over the Slider.
4. Sells cities to Lords and Kings.
   a. Allowed to pick who gets what city and doesn't have to go with highest bid.
   b. Gets 10% commision of the purchase price for his own use.
   c. Must sell to Lords First.
5. Acts as King for all cities not assigned to someone else and the Capitol.
   - Exception in case of Article I-A8.
6. Controls all settlers.
7. Production and Queues Powers.
   a. May override Production and Queues during turnchats.
   - Must inform Kings of what he did.
   b. May ask for changes during PBEM style of play.
   - May call for a change vote if the King refuses.
8. Controls the Treasury.
9. Votes in House of Kings only with the Capitol and cities that are actually his.

B. High Kings

1. Either a King or Lord.
   - A person can hold only one position of High King at a time.
   - The Emperor cannot hold a High King position.
2. Appointment to any postition of High King must be approved by the High Council.
3. Orders of all High Kings must be followed by the Emperor.
4. High King of Forgien Affairs.
   a. May make trade deals with forgien AI Civs.
   b. May propose trade deals with forgien Human Civs.
   - Proposed deals must get voted on.
5. High King of Military Affairs.
   a. Controls all units that have a deffensive/offensive value.
   - Except for Garison units.
   b. May remand Garison units.
6. High King of Internal Affairs.
   - Controls all workers and slaves.
7. Other High Kings may be apointed as the Emperor needs them.
8. No High King may go to war.

B. Kings

1. Lords who have purchased a city/cities.
   - All Subsequent cities purchased by a King must have a common border.
2. Names their city (and geographical areas in city radius) with 50% approval from High Council.
3. Controls WF of their city.
4. Controls build and queue of their city.
5. Controls Garrison units.
   - No more than three per city.
6. Votes in the High Council.
7. Votes in the House of Kings.
8. It is the Kings responsibility to keep track of which units are his when they are remanded by a High King.

C. Lords

1. Members of our team.
2. Votes in the High Council.
3. Votes in the House of Kings.

Government

A. High Council

1. Composed of all Kings and Lords.
2. One vote for each member.

B. House of Kings

1. Composed of all Kings and Lords.
2. One vote plus one for each population point in city/cities controled by King.
3. Kingless cities are not represented.

I have removed the section titled "Matters that are voted on" because I don't want to arbitrailly pick what goes to witch voting body. As discussed in our team chat, big issues go to the Council and smaller matters go to the House. It was also decided that one or the other of the voting bodies vote on a subject, not both (this is why we need to determine what goes where).

Special thanks to Ennet, GF and Korn for taking much longer than I thought we would.

PS- Korn, I think you should go to a beauty salon after I made you rip your hair out in frustration

[Donegeal]

The official Team name (unless someone comes up with something better before the game starts) is.... drum roll please...

THE GLORY OF WAR

hmmm... I guess that really was sorta anti-climatic...

Also, as Founder, I will represent the Glory as leader to MarkG in the icon thread (we did not discuss who will be our ruler come time for the game to start. I suspect we will only begin that discussion once the gevermental outline gets finished).

[Donegeal]

Ooo! Ooo! I call the Druids!

Donegeal the Druid just sounds to perfect!

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Well, if we are forming clans already, I would like to head a Druidic clan, centering on Religion, (and religous conquest/sacrifices). Now, to find us a nice forrest tile to make our sacred circle of Oaks...

Aw... poop! I guess I should read the thread before I start jumping up and down....

[Aro]

IMHO, the icon (I saw it in the icons thread) is perfect.
I'm a lousy designer in these days... RL oppress me!
Good luck whith the team!