Thread Tools
Old November 6, 2002, 22:24   #31
Tuberski
 
Tuberski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
Quote:
Originally posted by HappySunShine
It doesn't even really matter that the MP isn't working because the game still sucks. It still takes forever to research techs, there's still an enormous corruption rate so there will always be a cap on cities, maps are still horrible and will start you next to a sea of swamps or forest, and the list goes on and on. It was a bad game to begin with and MP hasn't made any improvements. I've already uninstalled everything having to do with civ3 from my computer.



Or it could simply mean that the Civ 2 MP god sucks at civ 3.


ACK!
__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
Tuberski is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 02:18   #32
HappySunShine
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Multiplayer
Warlord
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Sunshine State, where else?
Posts: 223
Civ3 is easier than civ2. I mean it's not like you can fall behind in civ3. If you fall behind techs get cheaper and your opponent is awarded massive corruption for having more cities. Civ3 awards the lesser player and handicaps the better player. But then again nobody accused the people at Firaxis of being intelligent.
HappySunShine is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 11:21   #33
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
While I agree with you that I really dislike the tech model and the corruption model (rumor has it that it's quite easy to change the corruption levels), one might argue that the continual equalization of opponents will require even more skill to keep an edge in the game. Many of the old tired strats that were so effective in civII won't give you the same edge. The old dogs will have to learn new tricks. If after your limited experience, it's your contention that there are no new tricks to be learned, I might say you're satisfied living off your past victories instead of striving for new ones.
But I know you're way to competive for that.

But we'll see. Originally most of the discussions claimed that it would be quite modable to suit a wide range of desires. That will be one of the first things that I check out when I get it. Hopefully this weekend.

RAH
But based on what I've read and my experiences with SP III. I still much prefer MP II.
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 14:44   #34
HappySunShine
Civilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Multiplayer
Warlord
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Sunshine State, where else?
Posts: 223
Quote:
While I agree with you that I really dislike the tech model and the corruption model (rumor has it that it's quite easy to change the corruption levels), one might argue that the continual equalization of opponents will require even more skill to keep an edge in the game. Many of the old tired strats that were so effective in civII won't give you the same edge. The old dogs will have to learn new tricks. If after your limited experience, it's your contention that there are no new tricks to be learned, I might say you're satisfied living off your past victories instead of striving for new ones.
Nobody accused Rah of being intelligent either. Of course the game is modable, but then you have like 60 different versions of the game floating about and that never works in MP. Not to mention that in order for MP to work you need to have a standard that can only be set by the developer. Well we have their standard and it sucks. But lets face it, Firaxis never expected MP to be successful in the first place, the single player add ons are why they did PTW. MP has never sold well and it never will. You think Firaxis doesn't know this? You think it was just an accident that MP doesn't work right now?
HappySunShine is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 15:47   #35
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
I agree that it would be good if the developer sets the standard, but as you said it sucks. (and I'm sure I'll agree with you when I check out the game since the base SP game sucked) But I have full faith that groups of people will be able to come up with their own standards that will make it enjoyable to them. There are some standard rules sets for CIVII MP that are quite popular. And a lot of people use them with slight modification, so I think you're overstating the problem.

I really don't care if MP is commercially successful as long as we get a playable game out of it. That will be worth the money to me. I've gotten 100 x my money's worth out of II.

RAH
Your attempts at insults are quite feeble for a clever person like you. I suggest you work on them a bit.
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 15:51   #36
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths Rah goes to to post reasonable responses when Eyes flames him.

It might be fun to start a thread with examples of when Eyes has successfully baited Rah, but I can only remember a couple of times.
DrSpike is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 16:41   #37
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919

Actually it's quite easy not to be baited.
Despite his abrasivness, Eyes is a premier CIV player, who's skills/opinions I respect quite highly. Even if he gets a bit repetitive, his insights are sharp.

And when he responds to my posts, once the insult is done, it is obvious that he read what I said and makes an attempt to actually respond to it. Much better than in the OT, where people never seem to listen, but still respond. (not to be taken as a general condemnation of the OT, I've just spent way too much time there recently. )

Besides, if he really gets my goat with an insult, I can always ban him. But I doubt that will happen.
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 17:05   #38
War4ever
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
War4ever's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
WELL FiiCK DOES THIS MEAN WERE GOING TO BE PLAYING CIV3 MP NOW or is civ2 still the standard
__________________
Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!
War4ever is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 17:09   #39
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Until I get my CD drive running again, I'll still be playing Civ II. Which is fine by me
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 17:13   #40
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
From all reports, it will be a while before CIV III is really ready for us. I'll bet we'll still be playing II for the next 3 or 4 months, and then again 8 or 9 months later.

Rich
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 17:18   #41
Hydey
Civilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Multiplayer
Emperor
 
Hydey's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: up shyte creek without a paddle
Posts: 6,250
5 years later
__________________
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits

Hydey the no-limits man. :(
Hydey is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 17:32   #42
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Hopefully shorter than 5 years. Some of the new victory conditions for Civ III will make for one night games that can actually be one. Some of the concepts are interesting... now if they can only make it work
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 18:34   #43
War4ever
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameApolytoners Hall of Fame
Emperor
 
War4ever's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
ok sounds good....you had me scared there for a momment....i thought i was going to have to practice my civ3 mp some more....

and rah, that time frame looks right.... from my trials of civ3 mp....the game so far is a major flop...but thats not to say that the victory conditions wont make for some fun games when there work out the bugs, but lag right now for anything less than a duel isn't really desirable.....

but i would like to play test with you guys...so let me know once you have it ...
__________________
Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!
War4ever is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 18:42   #44
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
Like I said, I'll probably buy it this weekend. I'd really like to test it with players of similar skill level
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 18:51   #45
Flatlander Fox
Civilization II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Flatlander Fox's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Palace of Justice
Posts: 445
Until they get a direct IP connection, I don't think that many are going to be able to play it anyway.

I have tried about four games, and am actually pleasantly suprised with the SP now. How that translates to MP will be a whole other ball game though.

I will be around for testing though, and as soon as the IP connect patch comes out, we will really be in business.
__________________
Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...
Flatlander Fox is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 19:27   #46
Tuberski
 
Tuberski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
Quote:
Originally posted by HappySunShine
It doesn't even really matter that the MP isn't working because the game still sucks. It still takes forever to research techs, there's still an enormous corruption rate so there will always be a cap on cities, maps are still horrible and will start you next to a sea of swamps or forest, and the list goes on and on. It was a bad game to begin with and MP hasn't made any improvements. I've already uninstalled everything having to do with civ3 from my computer.
This, followed by this:


Quote:
Originally posted by HappySunShine
Civ3 is easier than civ2. I mean it's not like you can fall behind in civ3. If you fall behind techs get cheaper and your opponent is awarded massive corruption for having more cities. Civ3 awards the lesser player and handicaps the better player. But then again nobody accused the people at Firaxis of being intelligent.
Bad starts I agree with, corruption I agree with, but is getting Techs easier or harder?

You have to choose one, not claim both.


ACK!
__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
Tuberski is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 19:33   #47
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
Both points are correct. If you are in the lead, there is a tech development penality. If you are behind, it's easier for you to get a tech then it is for the leader. As Eyes points out, there is a built in equalizer to help people that are behind in techs.

Like Eyes, I'm not a big fan of this feature. If you are the first to research a science, it takes forever to get it.
It does tend to make it impossible to maintain great science leads like you can do in Civ II.
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old November 7, 2002, 20:21   #48
Tuberski
 
Tuberski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Ming
Both points are correct. If you are in the lead, there is a tech development penality. If you are behind, it's easier for you to get a tech then it is for the leader. As Eyes points out, there is a built in equalizer to help people that are behind in techs.

Like Eyes, I'm not a big fan of this feature. If you are the first to research a science, it takes forever to get it.
It does tend to make it impossible to maintain great science leads like you can do in Civ II.
Only thing I can say to that is. When I'm ahead, I usually get Tech in 4 turns.

The fastest another player can get that tech is also 4 turns.

So, once again, we are back to the conclusion that Eyes is very good at Civ 3.

Of course, playing the game helps that.

ACK!
__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
Tuberski is offline  
Old November 8, 2002, 03:04   #49
Ming
lifer
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization III MultiplayerPolyCast TeamCivilization IV: MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Retired
 
Ming's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Mingapulco - CST
Posts: 30,317
If all players are going for a "new" science, you are probably correct. The problem is, if you are going for a new one, you face the new science penality. This allows people behind you in techs to catch up faster. This was NOT the case in Civ II... This let's screw the leader in science stuff is fine playing against a bunch of AI's... but really sucks in a MP game. To get screwed by being in the lead takes a lot of fun out of the game.
__________________
Keep on Civin'
Civ V Civilization V Civ5 CivV Civilization 5 Civ 5 - Do your part!
Ming is offline  
Old November 8, 2002, 18:30   #50
Tuberski
 
Tuberski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ACK!! PPHHHHTTBBBTTTT!!!
Posts: 7,022
Quote:
Originally posted by Ming
If all players are going for a "new" science, you are probably correct. The problem is, if you are going for a new one, you face the new science penality. This allows people behind you in techs to catch up faster. This was NOT the case in Civ II... This let's screw the leader in science stuff is fine playing against a bunch of AI's... but really sucks in a MP game. To get screwed by being in the lead takes a lot of fun out of the game.
It is still possible to get a "new" tech in 4 turns, no matter how cheap previous techs are they still take a minimum of 4 turns to research.

You can't increase your tech lead, but it won't shrink at this rate.

ACK!
__________________
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry, and that's extra scary to me. There's a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside. Look out, he's fuzzy, let's get out of here."
Tuberski is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 10:13   #51
atawa
Civilization II MultiplayerCivilization II Democracy GameCivilization II Succession Games
King
 
atawa's Avatar
 
Local Time: 12:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow.
Posts: 2,751
So whats the verdict on PTW sofar?

Worth downloading? uhm I mean buying off course
atawa is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 11:05   #52
CapTVK
Civilization II MultiplayerPolyCast TeamApolyCon 06 Participants
King
 
CapTVK's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,899
From a scenario standpoint I don't like what I've read so far. No proper scenarios like the original Rome and WW2 in Civ2 have been included in PTW. Just a number of homemade Civ3 mods/maps/scen. Which you could have downloaded from the net anyway. It would be like buying the "Conflicts in Civilization" or "Fantastic World" Civ2 addons and finding out all the scenarios are fan efforts.


Cheap, very cheap...
CapTVK is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 12:05   #53
Flatlander Fox
Civilization II Multiplayer
Prince
 
Flatlander Fox's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Palace of Justice
Posts: 445
Yep, I've tried many of the scenarios and don't really care for many of them (Probably my own fault, not the creators).

The editor is a complete joke, and angers me greatly. I can't believe that they even call it one.

Gaming on Gamespy(ware) is impossible. Whether it's the site, or the game, I'm not sure.
__________________
Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...
Flatlander Fox is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 16:24   #54
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
Huge amount of censorship going on the civ 3 boards

Even raising the Gamespot review gets you shut down
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 16:36   #55
CapTVK
Civilization II MultiplayerPolyCast TeamApolyCon 06 Participants
King
 
CapTVK's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 2,899
I have a feeling Yin26 is feeling very smug now. Boy, he would have a fieldday with this!...

Has anyone seem him around since the world soccer championships btw?
CapTVK is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 16:53   #56
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
Its just too pitiful to be funny.

And those Bozos from Firaxis are nowhere to be seen on those boards.
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 17:03   #57
Alexander's Horse
Civilization II MultiplayerApolytoners Hall of Fame
Deity
 
Alexander's Horse's Avatar
 
Local Time: 20:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: In a tunnel under the DMZ
Posts: 12,273
Mark G should let all people express their opinions so other consumers can make informed decisions.
__________________
Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer.

Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

Last edited by Alexander's Horse; November 10, 2002 at 19:55.
Alexander's Horse is offline  
Old November 10, 2002, 19:46   #58
DrFell
Civilization II Multiplayer
King
 
Local Time: 11:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,131
You can say that again.

You really can. I've been really disappointed by the PTW reviews so far. I thought it'd be this really polished sequel, with very few bugs etc. Especially with the beta testing. How they got it wrong this time is beyond me. Good thing I have so little time to play civ nowadays anyway.
DrFell is offline  
Old November 11, 2002, 10:30   #59
rah
lifer
Apolytoners Hall of FameCivilization IV: Multiplayer
Just another peon
 
rah's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: who killed Poly
Posts: 22,919
Thanks to all the GREAT comments here, I put off buying the game this weekend again. Maybe I should just wait for the first patch (and only if it has IP to IP support).

If you look carefully, I don't think the this site is trying to censor negative comments. It looks like they're just trying to keep some order about it. I saw quite a few 1 or two response complaint threads. It's not necessary for each person to start their own ***** thread. It doesn't take much effort to find one and contribute to it.

RAH
__________________
The OT at APOLYTON is like watching the Special Olympics. Certain people try so hard to debate despite their handicaps.
rah is offline  
Old November 11, 2002, 10:43   #60
DrSpike
Civilization IV: MultiplayerApolyton University
Deity
 
DrSpike's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:11
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
I have been keeping up with reviews and feedback and I can understand your delaying purchase. It seems these days that only games that are clearly aimed at a MP audience (usually RTS games like Warcraft 3 and Age of Empires/Mythology) actually function well in MP with good support.

I have also been playing Medieval: total war (unlike PTW I bought this as soon as it came out), which was unplayable for MP out of the box, and even the first patch hasn't addressed that many MP issues.

In retrospect it was probably quite lucky that civ2 makes such a great MP game............outside of popular RTS the trend seems to be unpromising for MP strategy.

A pessimistic 2 cents.
DrSpike is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team