Morris: More Patches, Direct Ip On The Way

MarkG · November 1, 2002, 18:12

In our Civ3:PTW Release Party(which just ended but actually continues

) Jeff Morris announced that the team is already working on the next patch for PtW. The patch will include a direct IP option which will bypass the Gamespy matchmaking.

Quote:

We're aware that the gamespy connection stuff is problematic right now and it's the focus of our team. We've got a list of things that will be fixed in this patch and that along with host slowdowns are on the agenda. So far I haven't heard of any single player issues, editor or LAN/PBEM/Hotseat issues so right now we're focused on internet performance....

We're looking into a list of about 5 major issues related to internet play right now. One new feature of the patch will be a direct connect IP option.

There is no estimation on the release date of the patch yet.

hematoma1 · November 1, 2002, 18:35

I have the 1.04 patch and my PTW has crashed for 3 seperate reasons (normal game play and multi-player). Can I un-install the patch so I can try the game normally?

Don K Hotay · November 1, 2002, 18:45

Finally a response. I'm surprised not too many people are really (I mean really) complaining about PTW's lacklusterness. But, I'm sure this will all get better. I mean, we're not dealing with a fourth rate game maker like Activision. This is Firaxis, and they are just as dedicated to their fans as we are to their games.

It better come out soon though, or I might still consider Fedexing PTW up Sid Meier's behind!

Las Vegas Quixote

statusperfect · November 1, 2002, 19:02

Keep up the good work firaxis!

alva · November 1, 2002, 19:08

I liked the ability to get small fixes ASAP, that way you don't to wait 6 months to get a big update to fix a small problem

kring · November 1, 2002, 19:17

Mark, can someone please post a transcript or a link to the chat transcript.

Flesh Reaver · November 2, 2002, 18:19

Judging by the way MP performed for me, it will take about 6 months and 50 patches to get the game up to speed.

As a matter of fact, I doubt the MP will ever deliver 100%. It is just too screwed.

Not that it matters to me. I am returning this waste of money, and vow NEVER to buy another game with the words Firaxis, or Infrograms again.

I was really looking forward to MOO3

Pyrkaige · November 2, 2002, 19:35

Quote:

Judging by the way MP performed for me, it will take about 6 months and 50 patches to get the game up to speed.

Given that people have been able to run MP fairly reliably over LAN connections and that there will be a direct TCP/IP option in the next patch, it seems likely that most people will be able to run it much sooner than that. It would have been nicer to not have to deal with Gamespy at all from the get-go, but hopefully the next patch will resolve that.

Pyrkaige · November 2, 2002, 19:48

Quote:

Originally posted by kring
Mark, can someone please post a transcript or a link to the chat transcript.

Here's an edited copy of the chat log posted earlier. Some of the questions and responses were moved around to keep them together by topic. The chat was for an hour, and addressed the current problems with MP in PTW as well as other issues.

kring · November 2, 2002, 22:35

Thank you very much.

canadianbacon · November 3, 2002, 19:09

How does going with direct IP going to solve anything. The game is built on Microsoft DirectPlay, when you launch a game it is direct IP (the launcher just tells the players what ip address, and then the client connects to the host via direct ip).

The only thing the Gamespy host does it host chat, the chat lobby tells DirectPlay to launch the game and connect to a certain IP address.

So how is going direct IP going to solve anything, its same code working behind the scenes to communicate between host and players.

If you did a manual IP connection, you will be in the same place you would be if you used Gamespy, and I bet it will crash and burn.

The issues with is game are much bigger than the gamespy lobby. There is no way it was tested properly, and the reviews and tests written in the last few months must have been under tightly controlled environments. I guess we all had the wool pulled over our eyes.

notyoueither · November 3, 2002, 20:13

I welcome direct IP if for no other reason that GameSpy is not assured of being there for years to come...

Overall performance is also being addressed. If direct IP is part of the solution, great!

WarpStorm · November 3, 2002, 21:14

Quote:

Originally posted by canadianbacon
There is no way it was tested properly, and the reviews and tests written in the last few months must have been under tightly controlled environments

And you were there I take it?

canadianbacon · November 3, 2002, 22:01

Of course I was not there, i just making a point on the false claims and media manipulation used in marketing this exansion pack.

I am a software developer , (not games for 17 years). All the reviews, all the claims pointed to a working product. It's not working well at all. I'd expect a few bugs, but its basically not workable.

If you and 1000's others bought a 'hot' sports car, and when you got out the lot and onto a freeway it would not go over 30MPH, consumer affiars people would be all over the car maker. Unfortuantly in software it seems to bo OK to make false claims, push it out the door and hope you can fix it later.

How can so many people be having problems if was tested? It probably was tested, and results ignored... "get it out the door, its almost Christmas"

notyoueither · November 3, 2002, 22:13

Quote:

Originally posted by canadianbacon How can so many people be having problems if was tested? It probably was tested, and results ignored... "get it out the door, its almost Christmas"

True to a point, but ask yourself who would have been making the decision of "getting it out the door".

The thing has been being tested for some time now. I can vouch for that since I have been testing it. The developers have made massive progress, but are not yet done (according to what they say).

The shame to me, is the reputation of the developer being sullied at this early date by a decision of the publisher. I truely hope that that is corrected by dedication being demonstrated by Firaxis.

The sooner the INet MP scowls are changed to smiles, the better, and then most of this may be forgotten. If only people would remember to read the forums before they make the purchase...

canadianbacon · November 3, 2002, 22:46

No, I'm not blaming Firaxis, there previous products function well and patches were always forthcoming. They are only the developers, more likely its the marketing machine at Infogrames pushing for the End of Oct release.

I know it was 'field' tested, but it still way to buggy even for a 1st release (non beta). For 3 days I've tried, and everybody else I talked to had crash after crash. Someone says 'I actually played a game, one on one, high ping and small world worked'. Next game, same parmameters, it crashes. If there is a 'rule book' on how to get even the simplest game working, lots of people would be interested in knowing it.

I dont know what makes people more upset, the Inability to use the features promised, or if they had to wait till January for it. To me it seems a no brainer, you can't ***** about a product you dont have.

Infogrames is not the only cuslprit in this type of marketing, it seems to be the SOP for game companies, how they get away with it while other industries dont, is beyond me.

notyoueither · November 4, 2002, 02:08

Good points. 2 threads for you:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=66350

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...threadid=65999

Some of the other testers helped me get going in about 10 minutes. Once I knew what to shut off, and how to configure I have enjoyed great success. If I were to boil down what to do to have the highest chance of success it would be...

1. Ensure that the people you are trying with are not using any warez version. Some of the warez versions will do nothing but crash. All of the warez versions can be patched, but the patch will not fix the problems for all of them. Unfortunately, this means trying with people you know, since a lot of the warez users will swear on a stack they are legit.

2. Plug your computer directly into the broadband connection. Not broad band? 56K? Sorry, I can't help (I have no experience with them and PTW). Disconnect any router or hub and connect directly to the cable/dsl modem.

3. Turn off any AV or Firewall software. If you are using Win2K or XP you will have to be logged on as admin to do this and stay logged on to play for that session.

4. DO NOT use GameSpy Arcade to start or join games, and ensure the other person is not as well. Start PTW. Select the MP option and start/join games from there.

5. Be patient while moving from the initial game setup screen to the MP setup screen, and again when you launch the game itself. there can be delays as players join before they are actually all there and responsive. Using a second chat program, such as MSM halps a lot so you can tell where people are and whether you should continue waiting. If they crash (to desktop) stop waiting.

If you do this and still cannot get going, then you may be one of the unfortunate few. There was 1 tester who could never host. His ISP blocks port 80(?). He also has problems joining I think.

I have run into 1 person since release who can get into games, but any game he touches is mired in goo, no matter how close and how good the ping. He is on a large institution's network. the developers have been made aware of his situation and will hopefully be able to resolve it.

Once you know that it does work for you, and how to make it work in a worst case, then start playing around with your router and firewall and get the game going though them. It has been done by many of the testers, but some patience is required while you go through the trial and error routine.

Buster13 · November 4, 2002, 10:44

Since you mentioned hotseat issues:

I had an experience after saving a hotseat game. Upon reloading, it would sometimes (more than half of the time), convince itself it was a single player game, and eliminate one of the player (make them AI).

Anybody else have this issue?

McCasper · November 4, 2002, 12:03

With all this talk about disabling routers, firewalls and any other protections you may have on your computer aren't we missing the point. Just about every other developer of multiplayer internet games get their games working with these barriers in place. These barriers are there for a reason, so that unwanted individuals do not hack into our systems! I don't know about anyone else but I have been "port scanned" extensively since connecting to broadband. I personally would not connect a computer to the internet without a router & personal firewall.

Running a game on port 80 (http) or any known, documented and dedicated port is absurd. I also agree with the comments above about gamespy only forwarding the ip information to the game. There are some very big issues with the multiplayer portion of the game, period! Until they are fixed, it looks like most us us are playing single player but there are also issues with that as well.

While playing one of the largest scenarios in single player, the game would repeatedly either give a general memory error and crash to desktop or reboot the system. Other single player games have worked fine though.

System specs: Athlon 1.4, 512 MB PC2100 Ram, ATI 32 MB radeon & Adelphia Powerlink (~3 megabit download bandwidth).

canadianbacon · November 4, 2002, 12:22

The problem with Firwall/Gateway boxes is with DirectPlay. It does have a few ports well defined for the initial handshacking protocals, but it is does a dynamic port assignment to play the games. Some gateway/routers do not have the ability to assign ranges of ports (just individual) or are not easily configured to allow 1 connection on the gateway to be a DMZ (totally open to all traffic). So that explains why some people can get there gateways to work, while others can not.

Port 80(http traffic) is not used by DirectPlay.

As for the hints given to play, the only one I have not already done is the Anti-Virus software disabling. Though i find it odd that you would need to do that for an online game anymore than a local game. Usually the only thing you may need to disable AV software for is installing some programs and doing backups.

More than likely its the combination of hardware I (and others) have that are causing problems. Guess I should have sprung a few more $$$ for the Intel instead of the AMD!!!

In the end I think I'll have to wait for a patch or 2.

I also tried changing various settings for DirectX and swapping network cards. The closest I got was 1 move into a game. Then some memory access error.

Thanks for the hints, I'll keep chugging at it.

KizSmurf · November 4, 2002, 13:30

Has anyone thought about class aciton lawsuits? Any lawyers out there? My buddy is in his 3rd year in law school and he thinks there may be a case, but is reluctant to give out advice since he is not a lawyer yet. This is B.S. and should not become a legit way to market software, or anything else. Firaxis, I love you, don't be dumb and work with infrogames ever again.

Love Civ 3, Hate PTW, untill its fixed I'm playing Age of Wonders 2

KizSmurf

Edgar Newt · November 4, 2002, 14:09

What are your damages? Return the darn thing if you don't want it.

I am very upset with Firaxis et al., and my postings here will reflect that, but seriously -- what are your damages? Return the darn thing if you don't want to wait for the patches. Or better yet, return it...wait to see if they patch it successfully, then buy it.

Where is your buddy going to law school? Does he mail in his exams to an address in Belize (nothing against Belize by the way)?

player1 · November 4, 2002, 19:27

I think that problem came out with testing PtW MP in very limited enviroment with not so many users online.

So it was difficult to spot unit game was released.

Maybe it was Firaxis inexpirience with MP testing, or just choosing Gamespy (which was Infogrames decision).

P.S.
I'm pretty sure it would be fixed with next patch, but it's indeed very bad MP issue.

P.P.S.
Also, I have one theory with those "warez PtW versions".
Those who try using them usually don't have patch installed (since probably there is still not 1.04 no-cd fix to download).

And since 1.01 and 1.04 are not compatibile enough it CRASHES.

Not to say that there are those who have Warez PtW alpha.

Conclusions: Legit games are better, and that's why you pay more for them (and there is no chance or getting broken alpha)

asleepathewheel · November 4, 2002, 20:56

Quote:

Originally posted by KizSmurf

Has anyone thought about class aciton lawsuits? Any lawyers out there? My buddy is in his 3rd year in law school and he thinks there may be a case, but is reluctant to give out advice since he is not a lawyer yet. This is B.S. and should not become a legit way to market software, or anything else. Firaxis, I love you, don't be dumb and work with infrogames ever again.

Love Civ 3, Hate PTW, untill its fixed I'm playing Age of Wonders 2

KizSmurf

I'm a third year law student, and I have to laugh at this (not that I care for or know much about this type of law, I do criminal law,, mind you). don't get me wrong, I'm not happy that it has bugs either

Read the EULA

When you installed the game, you agreed to the EULA which gives you 90 days to return the game for full refund. AFter 90 days, you get nothing, so return it now if you wish. You do have to have the receipt.

Where's the harm there? You agreed to the return procedure, if you don't follow it, its your fault.

So return it or keep it, but decide within 90 days (or earlier to allow for the mail)

Jack_www · November 5, 2002, 00:06

Well I have played PTW in single player, and its great. The AI is good enough to give you a good game. Hotseat and PBEM work fine. I like the new civs and units. The only thing that is wrong with it is MP. Many people think it is Gamespy, but I play a lot of games on Gamespy and it works just fine. Trust me there is a lot worst out there. I think it has something to do with the code for transfering the data between computers. I have heard from many that say they beta tested PTW that Infogrames rushed it out of the door before they could fix the problem. I know they will fix it, it is just a matter of time.

Firaxis is better then a lot of game compinies out there. Most only put out one or two patches and thats it, even if there are still bugs in the program. But Firaxis has been listening to people's feedback and making changes to the game to try and make the game a game everyone likes.

Pachabel · November 5, 2002, 17:34

I was considering a similar lawsuit. You see, sometimes my local Fox channel airs bad programming. I really find it disturbing as I sit there and watch. I think if we banded together we can get them to stop. Or maybe at least one of the executives should come over and change the channel.

I'm with ya. Let's sue Firaxis for selling us a game we wanted to buy, then making us play it repeatedly. The nerve of some companies.

statusperfect · November 5, 2002, 18:32

Pachabel>>

KizSmurf · November 5, 2002, 19:25

Ouch! I suck, sorry. I'll never rant again.

asleepathewheel · November 5, 2002, 20:37

Quote:

Originally posted by KizSmurf
Ouch! I suck, sorry. I'll never rant again.

canadianbacon · November 6, 2002, 19:56

Any realiable info on ETA of next patch? I really really really want to get this working!