Firaxis (Soren): What's Up With F11 Screen Military Service?

Jon Shafer · November 1, 2002, 19:31

In my current game it says 16th (there are only 15 players... guess the Barbarians have me beat), yet the military advisor says I have a strong military compared to my neighbors. What gives?

miccofl · November 1, 2002, 19:56

Would that be 15 players "+" you?

asleepathewheel · November 1, 2002, 20:26

Isn't military service merely a ratio of citizens to units? or something similar?

I know at the end of the game when I have 500 units but 500mil people, i am always dead last in that category.

Raion · November 2, 2002, 21:28

It's there to make you scratch your head as you play.
It's psych!

JohnM2433 · November 3, 2002, 20:42

Yeah, I would think it would be units/population.

Jon Shafer · November 3, 2002, 20:50

But I have the strongest military, and a moderate-high population.

Pyrodrew · November 3, 2002, 22:26

My guess would be that since the AI starts with military units this gives them an edge on the "military service" time right from the start.

DrFell · November 4, 2002, 07:58

Having a higher tech military than your opponents will also contribute to the military advisors definition of 'strong', yet it does not affect military service. That might be one reason why this is occuring.

BTW, how high are you on the population demographic?

alva · November 4, 2002, 08:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Trip
But I have the strongest military, and a moderate-high population.

yeah, but the ai often has size 30 and higher cities,
maybe 1 size 30 is more pop. then 3 size 10 cities?

maybe he has a 100 warriors while you have 10 tanks?

Akka · November 4, 2002, 11:13

Quote:

yeah, but the ai often has size 30 and higher cities,
maybe 1 size 30 is more pop. then 3 size 10 cities?

Yes.
Each population point is 10 000 for the first, then 20 000 for the second, then 30 000 for the third and so on.

So three size 10 city are 550 000 x 3 = 1 650 000 inhabitants, while a size 30 is 4 650 000 inhabitants large.

Jon Shafer · November 4, 2002, 14:42

Quote:

Originally posted by alva848
yeah, but the ai often has size 30 and higher cities,
maybe 1 size 30 is more pop. then 3 size 10 cities?

maybe he has a 100 warriors while you have 10 tanks?

It's possible, I suppose, but it was still rather early in the game (mid-late Middle Ages), and I had maxed out or gotten very near to it in most of my cities, while the AI usually had city sizes 5 or 7 or rarely above 10. The point you made about the 100 warriors VS 10 tanks is probably the main reason (or Spearmen VS Cavalry

) that things were turning up the way they did. It still seems odd though, since no matter how big or how many cities I have, I'm still always 15th or 16th.

alva · November 4, 2002, 14:53

Don't forget the AI defends each city with a least 2 units(st*ppid bugger

), something most of us don't really do

).
These alone can easely account for 50-60 units.

(might have to change our tactics with that viking unit though

)

ChaotikVisions · November 4, 2002, 15:10

You guys don't defend with at least 2 units? As things go on I get 3 defenders, then Knights/Calvary/Tanks to stop invasions, have them stationed in my border/coastal citys. I've only had 1st in service a couple times, usually early on i'm in the top 5, then as AI pop and military grows I slide to 5-10. But since I usually keep a large military I stay there. Right now my military consists of 60 Musketmen,(20 citys, 3 per city), and 24 Calvary(3 Calvary in 8 of my border/coastal citys. It was just 4 in 6 border citys but another civ not on my cont declared war on me, so i've got to guard my border a bit better.

badman · November 4, 2002, 16:09

I usually have like a single warrior or a single a swordsman in all my coastal cities to scare off the AI during all of the game. My frontier cities would have all my military if my relationship to the other civ is very tense, otherwise just one of the best defensive units I can afford.
I always have no units at all in the cities that do not have direct access to the coast.

And no, I don't play MP like that (actually I don't play MP at all)

vmxa1 · November 4, 2002, 17:23

Seems like it would depend on the game, What level, what is my current form of gov? Who are my neighbors, if any. Where am I in the game, am I in ancient time or what. By and large I keep my interior cities lightly defended (1 unit, often my oldest). My cities that are exposed (can be reached in two turns) with more and better units for the era and border cities with the rest. If at war then things will change a bit. If my neighbors are weak or strong, I may adjust. Do they have 1 move units or 2 or 3? Do I have roads all the way, railroads?

Jon Shafer · November 4, 2002, 18:07

Quote:

Originally posted by ChaotikVisions
You guys don't defend with at least 2 units? As things go on I get 3 defenders, then Knights/Calvary/Tanks to stop invasions, have them stationed in my border/coastal citys. I've only had 1st in service a couple times, usually early on i'm in the top 5, then as AI pop and military grows I slide to 5-10. But since I usually keep a large military I stay there. Right now my military consists of 60 Musketmen,(20 citys, 3 per city), and 24 Calvary(3 Calvary in 8 of my border/coastal citys. It was just 4 in 6 border citys but another civ not on my cont declared war on me, so i've got to guard my border a bit better.

How do you afford that?

Arrian · November 4, 2002, 18:26

Typically, once I switch into a representative goverment (republic), the only cities with more than 1 defender are coastal and border towns. The coastal towns will have 1 spear and 1 sword (probably an upgraded regular warrior), and the sword will get tossed somewhere in the middle ages, depending on the situation I'm in.

Interior cities usually keep their 1 defender, but I have started pulling those out and actually making them useful. This cannot be done if I have a RoP with the AI, but that's rare anyway.

Border cities will often have 2-5 defenders, a large number of attackers, and maybe some bombard units. It depends on the border. If there is a long border, I will probably keep most of my attackers 1 city back, such that they can be dispatched to any threatened city within a turn. If the border is small, they will be concentrated right up at the front... errr... border.

I don't recall ever being more than 2nd to last (7th out of 8 or whatever) in military service, despite being a raging warmonger. Then again, I don't really look at F11 in the early going, so I *may* be among the leaders early on, but I doubt it.

-Arrian

alva · November 4, 2002, 18:36

in higher levels, you never the leader........in the f11 departement

Why guard your coastal cities btw?? (pre-ptw)
until marines there nothing the ai can do. I do quite the opposite.
Guard some outward tiles the ai can reach with galleons.
Even run along with so they can't invade

(semi-exploit that I only use on deity

)

ChaotikVisions · November 4, 2002, 19:24

Heh, I afford it by falling behind in Science usually. Since I have to keep to Despotism/Monarchy early on because of not enough trade to support units, my science loses quite a bit. Right now its 1700 AD and i'm struggling to get to the Industrial age, probably 5th or 6th in tech(4 AI civs started on small islands). Just switched to Democracy now, was expecting to run a big - except on high tax rates but suprisingly I can do 5/5 making 100gpt or 6/4 with 30gpt before I start to go into minus, making me think I should have switched earlier so I wouldn't be as bad off.

But I guess its also because I don't like to lose citys, even if they're size 2 citys in the middle of a desert, its my people and my city, heh. I'm sure i'd do better having less and getting better tech, but having a big military is also good for invasions. Was planning to invade India soon, claim the rest of my continent to myself, but they keep signing MPPs and America just declared war on me, so i'll have to wait. Anyway, if you want to see it heres my save.(NOTE: Its a Play the World save, version 1.04f)

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/chaoslord...ians1700AD.SAV

Edit-Bah, just looked and noticed I was 12th. Probably the smaller civs massing military and knocking me back. Currently only America and India have a stronger military then me, and India and I have been going back and forth on that one. Rest are average/weaker then me.

DrFell · November 5, 2002, 06:12

I'm nearly always last in military service. I always leave my interior undefended with only a couple units in border cities and spend the resources on building more cities/building up my cities. No need to waste resources defending cities that aren't going to be attacked. Even when I'm doing an early rush I'm ususally low on military service, as I usually only do them on deity level.

Tattila the Hun · November 5, 2002, 06:55

Perhaps this could have something to do with the rank of the units? 10 regular vs 10 veteran = 10 veterans heve been in the army for longer.

Arrian · November 5, 2002, 10:14

Well, I always figured the reason I was low on the "military service" ranking was my high population. If I have a lot of units, I typically am USING them to take cities away from the AI. Therefore, even with a strong military, it isn't bigger per citizen than an AI army, especially with all those free units they get on Emperor.

-Arrian

Jack_www · November 5, 2002, 17:10

Well I have never been a leader in millitary survice, but I always ignore that stat. I usually have two defenders in each city. If someone attacks me and has a lot of units i get defenders in the iner cities and move them to the city that is being attacked. I just dont like leaving a cities open with no defenders, even if I play with the computer.