$mini-game: Will we have one too?

F-PRO · November 2, 2002, 09:18

I've seen the $mini-game in the Civ3DG and, though I haven't participated yet, it seemed fun. Will we have one too? If so, it would be better if we designed our own rules, so that it fits the situation in this DG. Also, if we create our own rules we will sooner get in touch with them (the $mini-game in Civ3 was just too confusing; I haven't got around to understanding all of it yet).

We can use this thread for rule suggestions.

centrifuge · November 2, 2002, 15:46

Could you explain how the $mini-game works?

Method · November 2, 2002, 23:14

i'd also like to know. i'd ask in the C3 forum, but they'd just give a long and unnecessarily complex version of the rules

sound like it could be cool to adapt to other DGs though. all i know is that it involves buying/selling terrain tiles

Turambar · November 3, 2002, 05:36

I had a look at the Civ3 game and it looks incredibly complicted. I'm sure a simpler version could be come up with but I'd suggest waiting until the game is underway first.

F-PRO · November 3, 2002, 06:37

EDIT: I will try to update this post regularly with information about the $mini-game.

Quote:

Originally posted by TKG
i'd also like to know. i'd ask in the C3 forum, but they'd just give a long and unnecessarily complex version of the rules

sound like it could be cool to adapt to other DGs though. all i know is that it involves buying/selling terrain tiles

I have the same experience

They give a link to a "good and easy explanation" and still I don't understand it. Well, after reading the info a few times I understand some of the basics. But we don't really need to know all of the Civ3 $mini-game rules to be able to play our own.

INTRODUCTION

IIRC, the basics are: when you start, you can loan some money from the bank. You can then buy tiles. Tiles produce food, shield and commerce (food, production and commerce for CtP2), which you get at the end of every turn.

When a turn begins, someone gives us the "market assessment," which shows what the possessions of everybody are, how much labourers there are, how much demand for food there is, how much supply of food there is etc. The prices of products like food and shields are calculated (I will try to explain how this is done later).

After the market assessment is posted, people can propose trades. They have to state all of their possessions and income and the trades they want to make. Some possible trades are: selling 9 food for a minimum of $2, hire 1 labor in City A for a maximum of $120. You can also post actions which are not trades, for example: you have to post when you use shields to make a building (this is called converting shields I believe). At the end of the turn the trades are being processed and if you were succesful (e.g. someone bought what you wanted to sell, or you got the labor you want since you were the highest bidder) you get your money or your building or whatever you proposed in the trade.

SUPPLY AND DEMAND

In the game there is a certain demand for various items. Let's use food as an example. If we say every citizen demands 2 food, and there are 60 citizens, the total demand for food is 60 * 2 = 120. The supply of food is the total amount provided by tiles which are worked. Let's say that in total 30 food is supplied this way. So the demand is 120 and the supply is 30.

Now we get to how supply and demand influence the price of food. We set the base price of food at $100. Since the demand is higher than the supply, the price will raise. To see how much exactly we use the following formula:

Market price = (D : S) * base price

In our example that is:

Market price = (120 : 30) * $100 = 4 * $100 = $400

The outcome of the calculation shows the maximum amount of money which buyers are willing to pay for food (not exactly sure about this - correct me if I'm wrong). Since the demand is greater than the supply, everyone will be able to sell his food and receive $400 dollar per food.

Now follows another example. We now have a population of only 10 people. So the demand of food is 10 * 2 = 20 (the 2 indicates everyone demands 2 food). The supply of food is 30. So supply exceeds demand and the price will go down. To calculate how much, we use the same formula as above:

Market price = (D : S) * base price
Market price = (20 : 30) * $100 = 2/3 * $100 = $66 (rounded down)

So the suppliers will be able to sell their food for a maximum of only $66 dollars. If, however, more than 20 food is being sold, some food won't be bought (the buyers will, of course, never buy more than they demand). If we get in such a situation, the lowest bidder will always sell his food.

Note: the D : S ratio is being calculated at the beginning of the turn, but it changes every time the supply side of the ratio changes. For example, say the demand of food is 100 and the supply is 50. D : S now equals 2 (so the market price is 2 * $100 = $200). Then someone posts his trade proposals. Among other things he has decided to sell 10 food which he has stored in his storehouse. Now the supply is raised by 10 to a total of 60. The new D : S ratio is 100 : 60 = 1.67. The new market price is 1.67 * $100 = $166 (rounded down).

Other rules will be posted below, if I find the time to write them...

Zaphod Beeblebrox · November 4, 2002, 04:47

well, i can't see how this shall work?
from whom do you buy the tiles?
with what money?
where will the money come from to buy the landlords goods?
and what happens, if the food price is to high? civil unrest, plunderings and war?
whats the amount of shields needed? the all get used in the game, and no extra ones are available.
and what will happen, when we change our government to communism, will all landowners be shot then?

F-PRO · November 4, 2002, 06:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
well, i can't see how this shall work?
from whom do you buy the tiles?
with what money?
where will the money come from to buy the landlords goods?
and what happens, if the food price is to high? civil unrest, plunderings and war?
whats the amount of shields needed? the all get used in the game, and no extra ones are available.
and what will happen, when we change our government to communism, will all landowners be shot then?

I'm gettin to that, be patient

[From whom do you buy the tiles?]
From the government by default, or from someone who already owns it.

[Where will the money come from to buy the landlords goods?]
The people (the population in the game) simply have the money.

[And what happens, if the food price is to high? civil unrest, plunderings and war?]
This game does not affect the real game. So the people will always be able to buy the food. Or maybe we could set a limit to ghow much money the population can spend. Nothing is definite yet. But the $mini-game will never influence the real game.

[Whats the amount of shields needed? they all get used in the game, and no extra ones are available.]
We just play as if they are free to use. There are limits to this game's realism, I know. But you'll just have to ignore those "glitches."

[And what will happen, when we change our government to communism, will all landowners be shot then?

]
Then we will do all things in secret and prepare a plot to assassinate the president

.

Zaphod Beeblebrox · November 4, 2002, 08:37

Quote:

Originally posted by F-PRO

the $mini-game will never influence the real game.

well, what a pity, would add a lot of new aspects, but of course a whole more lot of rules

F-PRO · November 4, 2002, 11:49

I would have liked to have the influence too, but I don't see how that could be done. If there would be civil unrest if food prices went through the roof, it had to programmed in the game. So we would have to make a $mini-game mod or something.

J Bytheway · November 4, 2002, 12:21

It could affect the real game, for instance if someone owns the whole of a city's land then they get to choose the city's production, population allocation, etc.

Immortal Wombat · November 4, 2002, 14:41

sounds far too complicated to me

F-PRO · November 4, 2002, 17:55

I already have trouble explaining (and understanding) the basic rules of the game. Letting it interfere with the main democracy game would be too much for my mind to deal with. So, let's please stick to the "simple"

rules...

Zaphod Beeblebrox · November 4, 2002, 18:52

well, i just can't see any sense in the "simple" not interfering game, but of course i can't see a sense in soccer and some people seem to like that

F-PRO · November 5, 2002, 17:11

BIDDING

When posting an offer, you can do so in the following format:

Code:

Sell 5 food @ $10

This means you offer to sell 5 food at $10 per piece. You can make two kinds of offers: the simple offer where you state a set amount of money, like in the example above, and an offer where you state the minimum amount of money you'd like to receive for the product, like this:

Code:

Sell 5 food @ $1 min

Now you offer 5 food and are prepared to sell them for as low as $1 per piece. If supply does not exceed demand at the end of the trade, you will be able to sell your items at the price set by the D:S ratio. If, however, supply does exceed demand and you were the lowest bidder, you will sell your items $1 below the price set by the lowest bidder. If there is a tie, the first bidder wins the trade. Consider the following situation:

Food Market
Demand = 15 | Supply = 12
D : S = 1.25 | Market price = 1.25 * $100 = $125

Your tiles provide you with 6 food, but you also own 5 food in a storehouse which isn't added to the supply side of the equation yet (only food from tiles and food which is actually being offered is added to the supply). You have an opponent who also has 6 food from his tiles.

You make the following offer:

Code:

Sell 6 food @ $1 min

Your opponent makes the following offer:

Code:

Sell 6 food @ $10

If the trade would now end, you would win, but since the supply does not exceed the demand you will sell your items for the market price ($125). Your opponent will also be able to sell all his food for the same price. However, the trade doesn't end yet, and you make an additional offer:

Code:

Sell 5 food @ $1 min (food from storehouse}

Now the trade ends. You win again, but since supply exceeds demand, you have to sell at $9, which is $1 below the competitor's offer. You are offering in total 14 food, so you get to sell them all (demand = 15) and earn $126 ($9 *14). There is one demand left to fill, and since your opponent is the only one offering he will sell one food and get $10.

F-PRO · November 5, 2002, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
well, i just can't see any sense in the "simple" not interfering game, but of course i can't see a sense in soccer and some people seem to like that

the $mini-game is like a boardgame. I don't know why people like it, they just do, as do I. I agree with you on soccer, though

.

Frozzy · November 7, 2002, 02:23

I actually think this would be a great idea. It has affected IRL countries before (Wall Street Crash, Nikkei's latest downfall). I'm for it

F-PRO · November 7, 2002, 06:32

Well, I personally lke the idea too, but I'm not sure how exactly we could accomplish such a thing. Any suggestions?

F-PRO · November 10, 2002, 09:21

By the way, is the rule explanation I've given so far not too much confusing? Any questions on them?

Gilgamensch · November 12, 2002, 11:01

I still don't understand, how you run it?
Do you run it on this game we will play?
If so, from where do you get the cities?

F-PRO · November 13, 2002, 04:18

Yes, you run it on this game. Everytime a new savegame is released, we base the $mini-game on that savegame. I'm not sure what you mean with where do you get the cities?

Gilgamensch · November 13, 2002, 08:27

Let's say, we (in the DG) have one city with a pop of 2.

But for this mini-game are 5 persons playing. How do you continue ?

F-PRO · November 13, 2002, 16:57

In such a situation there would be a high competition. There are lots of players on the market, but only a small population demanding your goods. So you'd probably either sell your goods at very low prices or not at all. It is possible to play the $mini-game with such a small market, though - you don't need a pop for every player. The empire will expand soon enough, though, giving rise to new opportunities.

By the way, I'm not sure we will be able to play this game as soon as the DG starts.

Gilgamensch · November 14, 2002, 08:32

F-Pro,

who will execute the prices/proposals and so on? Where will it be published?

F-PRO · November 14, 2002, 08:48

It will be published here on this forum.

And who would do the management part of the game? Well, if someone would like to do it he may sign up anytime. You'd have to know the rules of course. I'm also prepared to do it, though.

Locutus · November 14, 2002, 08:49

I don't think I would particularly enjoy this mini-game myself. So I probably wouldn't play myself, but it would be nice to see something like this implemented, if enough others like it...