Cradle 1.34a

[primemover]

that request for a rundown of your code is just for the unit updater slic of course.

[hexagonian]

Look for the file
CRAG_updater.slc

There is also a file
CRA_updater.slc
in the folder. I believe this is an old file not in use, but you can also make the suggested changes to this file to cover yourself.

Since the code kicks in when you complete research on an advance, you can add additional entries dependant on other advances. So an entry like

enadv[1]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_BARRACKS);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[1]=UnitDB(UNIT_WARRIOR);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[1]=UnitDB(UNIT_HYPASPISTS);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[1]=400;

can have another entry like

enadv[37]=AdvanceDB(ADVANCE_IRON_WORKING);
OLD_UNIT_TYPE[37]=UnitDB(UNIT_WARRIOR);
NEW_UNIT_TYPE[37]=UnitDB(UNIT_HYPASPISTS);
PER_UNIT_UPDATE_COST[37]=400;

Make sure you have the exact name of the Advance. Check CRA_Advances.txt for that info.

Plus you need to make sure that the 2nd updating chance is later on the tech tree than the first - otherwise you can bypass the initial Advance and be able to have the unit before researching the tech. (though it does make a certain sense that info circulated in the world can allow civs to have a unit without understanding it) There's a pdf file in the readme folder that has the entire tech tree so you can figure out what you want to do.

Currently there are 36 entries, so you will need to make sure you change the numbers in the [ ] for each new entry.

That's all you need to do.

[Radical_Manuvr]

I DL'd and unzipped these files in this order:

Cradle 1.3 cradle_allfiles04_08.zip
update 1.32
update 1.34a
update 1.34b

I did not have any version of Cradle, I'm starting with 1.3.

I already had modswapper and I had the latest patch so I assumed I didn't have to reinstall them.

When I tried to load CTPII (800 turn option) (switched to the mod with modswapper) I got an error message that it couldn't find CRA_messageicon.txt and crashed the game. I didn't find any CRA_messageicon.txt files so I copied the original and renamed the copy. The game started okay then but when I get to the screen where you choose empire and leader name those read badstring for empire button and junkstring DECRIPTION_UNIT_CLERIC for the leader name. If I click the empire button I crash. I don't think the messageicon file controls those displays but I must be missing other files as well. Did I miss an update? Any other ideas as to what could be wrong?

Thanks.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Radical_Manuvr
I DL'd and unzipped these files in this order:

Cradle 1.3 cradle_allfiles04_08.zip
update 1.32
update 1.34a
update 1.34b

I did not have any version of Cradle, I'm starting with 1.3.

I already had modswapper and I had the latest patch so I assumed I didn't have to reinstall them.

When I tried to load CTPII (800 turn option) (switched to the mod with modswapper) I got an error message that it couldn't find CRA_messageicon.txt and crashed the game. I didn't find any CRA_messageicon.txt files so I copied the original and renamed the copy.

The CRA_messageicon.txt is in the 133_update_09_17.ZIP, actual there was no need to remove the new message icons.

Originally posted by Radical_Manuvr
The game started okay then but when I get to the screen where you choose empire and leader name those read badstring for empire button and junkstring DECRIPTION_UNIT_CLERIC for the leader name. If I click the empire button I crash. I don't think the messageicon file controls those displays but I must be missing other files as well. Did I miss an update? Any other ideas as to what could be wrong?

No that hasn't to do anything with the messageicon.txt. The problem is that Cradle has less civs than ApolytonPack or the default game and if you write protect your userprofile.txt then the game will crash if it shoiuld access a civ that doesn't exist. Therefore the solution is to disable the write protection for the userprofile.txt to be able to select a new civ and afterwards you can enable the write protection of the userprofile.txt again.

-Martin

[primemover]

I was thinking more along the lines of a global variable to keep track of whether an update has been completed or not.

If the update is made completely, a flag is cleared. If not, then the process is redone at the beginning of the human player's turn (or even all players turns if the AI did not have enough gold to do it the first time through).

Have you done anything along this line, or is this a bad idea?

[Lou Wigman]

My second game is now at 1550 AD. I am constantly at war with a neigbour who is rated the most powerful in the game. It is marginally more advanced in science and I am holding my own. I do, however have 40 cities all around size 30, all surrounded by latifundia, ports etc. (Am running caliphate at the moment). Despite this I am not catching up in science. The really worrying part is that a civ that I can't see, and so must be reasonably small, is building the Penicillin wonder!!! It just rocked up with a battleship. Another small civ nearby has submarines mingling with my dromons. Something is definitely out of kilter here. My own timeline is holding reasonably true from a historical perspective.

Except for half a dozen or so cities that are producing military units the rest are pretty well permanently on capitalization. I have about 100,000 PW points so there is little point accumulating more. Rush buying soon eats away the cash. I understand the reason for not allowing scientists too early. Just discussing what this does to the game overall, whether it be good, bad or indifferent. Getting the balance right is the key here.

I managed to build a few early wonders but haven't been able to get near one since about 1000 BC.

The unit updater SLIC still doesn't update ships in port but eliminates them instead. Saves on maintenance I guess.

How difficult would it be to allow the building of ports only next the city tile(s)? At the momemt I have ports everywhere which seems a bit excessive.

EDIT
I was wrong. The Byzantines have now slipped into first place. They have 20-30 cities. One of their bombers just flew over my territory. The Kushites are smaller but still substantial. They just attacked one of my coastal cities with 12 submarines. Methinks this game is defunct. Definitely something not right here. Makes my arquebus and trebuchet look rather sick.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
My second game is now at 1550 AD. I am constantly at war with a neigbour who is rated the most powerful in the game. It is marginally more advanced in science and I am holding my own. I do, however have 40 cities all around size 30, all surrounded by latifundia, ports etc. (Am running caliphate at the moment).

This is good - the larger civs are (and should be) maintaining a lead, and it appears that it is not a drastic one.

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
The really worrying part is that a civ that I can't see, and so must be reasonably small, is building the Penicillin wonder!!!

Based on the tech tree and your status, this is not a huge gap.

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
It just rocked up with a battleship...submarines...bombers

This is though...

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
Except for half a dozen or so cities that are producing military units the rest are pretty well permanently on capitalization. I have about 100,000 PW points so there is little point accumulating more. Rush buying soon eats away the cash. I understand the reason for not allowing scientists too early. Just discussing what this does to the game overall, whether it be good, bad or indifferent. Getting the balance right is the key here.

Are you using the suggested changes I made earlier in this thread for Latifundias (0 food) or still using the 1.34b setup? Are the bulk of your cities grown by slaves, or normal pop growth?

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
The unit updater SLIC still doesn't update ships in port but eliminates them instead. Saves on maintenance I guess.

Just trying to clarify - When you say Port, do you mean within a city or on a Port Tile Improvement?



[QUOTE] Originally posted by Lou Wigman
How difficult would it be to allow the building of ports only next the city tile(s)? At the momemt I have ports everywhere which seems a bit excessive.[/SIZE]
Probably not easily, because Ports are built on specific tiles (Beaches), so if you have a city blessed with a lot of them, you will get to build a lot of them. You should not be able to build them on open water.

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
I was wrong. The Byzantines have now slipped into first place. They have 20-30 cities. One of their bombers just flew over my territory. The Kushites are smaller but still substantial. They just attacked one of my coastal cities with 12 submarines. Methinks this game is defunct. Definitely something not right here. Makes my arquebus and trebuchet look rather sick.

I can tone down the bonuses in CRA_DiffDB.txt - I'm already going to reduce the science penalty for the human player on the highest level - this will allivate the gap, though I will probably have to refigure the timeline down the road. And I can reduce the bonus for the small civs in technology/gold, but increase the production/food bonus for them so they will stil have a presence.

I do have some questions...

Are the small civs that are way ahead scientifically civs that started the game or are they splinter civs that arose because of a revolt? This will help me determine where to make the changes.

Are you still playing on the same settings in this second game? (very hard, gigantic, 12 civs)

Can you attach a (zipped) gamefile to this thread? I'll go into cheat and take a look around.

[Lou Wigman]

Sorry, didn't mean port. Ships in a city are eliminated when you upgrade. Peter acknowledged that there was a problem here. Just wondering if something has been done about it.

I quite enjoyed my struggle against the cive that was marginally ahead. This makes for a good game. Generally you need two armies to tackle one opponent. A lot of manouevring and some good tactics required. When the gap gets too large its not so much fun any more.

I am still using the the standard 1.34b settings. I experimented earlier having Latifundia with no food. The AI seems happy to build these in forests, deserts and sand dunes. I have no slaves. Never have in any of my games. Goes against the grain I guess.

Its does not appear that the splinter civs are the main problem. Although I have only played two games so far it seems that some civs just advance much more rapidly than others. Based on their position and size there appears to be no obvious reason for this.

One posibbility. If there is a bored SLICer out there perhaps a 'technology leakage' module could be created. If an adjacent civ has the advance that you are researching then there will be a small change each turn that you will discover it.

I tried to attach the last autosave but it tells me that it is too large.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Lou Wigman Its does not appear that the splinter civs are the main problem. Although I have only played two games so far it seems that some civs just advance much more rapidly than others. Based on their position and size there appears to be no obvious reason for this.

Are the civs that are technologically advanced ahead or behind you on the composite powergraph, because the tech bonus for them is greater if they are behind you.

You can email me the gamefile - email address should be in the readme or in my profile here.

[Radical_Manuvr]

Thanks Martin. Your info should help if Hex will re-post 1.33 on his site so I can DL it.

I checked the thread on 1.33 but the DL link just leads to the land of Hex.

[hexagonian]

1.33 had been pulled because of some problems with the new SLICS. The file you want is going to be part of 1.35, once I can nail down the tech disparity problems.

[hexagonian]

Radical

This should fix the problem

[celicakydd]

ACK...after taking a year long break I wanted to get back in to CTP2 using your fantastic mod...but it appears you have some major balance issues to work out. Is there any way to eliminate the bonuses for someone that falls behind? As far as I am concerned if someone is that backward they deserve to have their head handed them on a plate (even if it is me)

[hexagonian]

Thanks for the files Lou. I had a look at them. Some observations...

I can only access the first 8 civs on the list in cheat Several look to be defunct civs - have they been eliminated? Did you start with 8 or 12?

Out of the civs I can access, the Byzantines have a good lead, but they are also in a democracy, which is a powerful government for science/growth, and they are on a continent by themselves, so they have little resistance. So their lead is not totally unexpected to see. My guess is that they had been able to maintain a good science lead (not huge though) and once they hit democracy - boom!!!

I would suggest that in future games that Democracy should be a priority. I did try to make it hard to maintain in a war state but in looking at the setup, Byzantine is in an ideal situation to do good in a democracy.

Looks like they've been upgrading their Tile improvements too... This is good to see. All of their cities have a good setup of buildings.

The rest I could access (Indus/Greece/Babylon/China) are all about your level scientifically - some are behind too.

The ones I could not access are the question though - are they civs that started the game or civs that sprouted up from a revolt? If they are a result of a revolt, then they do get all of the advances of the civ they revolted from. Most of the splinters are gone too, by the look of things.

I did want to see the Kushites too - but based on what I can see with the map, it looks like they have the same benefit as the Byzantines - a large continent all to themselves, so I'm guessing that they are benefitting from that.

On your next game, give a try with less ocean, larger landmass - this may help level the playing field.

Nevertheless, I have reduced some of the gold/science bonuses that have been in place for the next update.

[Lou Wigman]

I always head for Democracy as quickly as I can. But because of my situation I needed a government that allowed 40 cities. Hence my diversion to caliphate. Also, since the civ next door won't leave me alone some diversion into military matters was also required.

I did start with 11+barb. I guess there has been some serious 'rationalisation' going on. Unfortunately this all happened in the 'dark' and so I can't really tell.

As for the tile improvements, I thought this was all done by the AItileimp.slc. You are aware that there is a problem with this. There is no point pillaging your enemy since the SLIC code simply puts back the tile improvements anyway. Am I right here or am I misinterpreting what is happening?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
As for the tile improvements, I thought this was all done by the AItileimp.slc. You are aware that there is a problem with this. There is no point pillaging your enemy since the SLIC code simply puts back the tile improvements anyway. Am I right here or am I misinterpreting what is happening?

As long as the AI has enough PW it can put back the tile improvements, that is true for every type of improvement. The Commerce Improvements For AIs slic file put a commerce tile improvement on a free square. The latest version doesn't contain any cheat about it. No prefinished tileimps anymore.

-Martin

[Lou Wigman]

I am currently working on some new/different tile improvements. As I said earlier, it makes for a better game if the tile improvements are strictly divided into Food/Commerce/Production. We know that the AI favours food production. My question is, just how sophisticated can we make the AI tile improvements SLIC?

For example, can we have the AI place more commerce improvements if it has lots of food and more food improvements if it is in a poor position? This is what I tend to do myself. I aim for a particular growth rate, usually 500-1000 per turn and maximise commerce (and hence science) with the rest. Is anything like this possible with SLIC?

On a similar topic, I would like to discuss the role of mines in CRADLE. I build very few of these. They are expensive and cause masses of pollution. In CRADLE 1.34b most of my cities are not doing anything most of the time anyway. I have lots of gold and lots of PW points. Why would I need mines?

[Azeem]

I'm having a bit of trouble with loading Cradle 1.34a.
Everytime I play a new game, I get this message that pops up: Slic Error - In object CRA_PiracyTest, function_Random: Value out of bounds

Any suggestions on how to get around this?

[Immortal Wombat]

Find and open userprofile.txt, find the line DebugSlic=Yes and change it to DebugSlic=No.

[Azeem]

It already has been and I'm still getting the same error.

It has something to do with the CRA_Piracy file.

[Peter Triggs]

There may be more than one version of that file. Try this one.

[Azeem]

It finally worked!

Thank you very much for your help.

There's still another problem though - the game still crashes whenever moving a unit (player or AI) onto a tile with Ruins.

[Immortal Wombat]

It shouldn't actually be a crash, but the game does hang for a long while.

If you wish to change this, go into risks.txt, and set the chance for getting a unit or advance in a hut to 0 for each difficulty level. Of course then you wont get units or advances, but it will stop the lag.

[Adriano]

Cradle 1.34 b
Ultra g. map
medium level
barbarians nasty
1130 AD
Ranking 6° / 8 but near other 3
N° city 23
bigger city: 36
Last unit discovered: trebuchet
3 wonders built: Olympic games, Crhistianity, Appian Way. ( Real world I live in appian way! )
Funny: I had christianity exactly 0 year..

Epic marvellous balanced game!
I love the great cultural sense of this new wonders

Two small questions:

1) I ve discovered dark ages and some turn later I change dictatorship goverment in tribunal empire.
So what's the meaning of
"Tribunal empire obsoletes: Dark ages?"
I missed smth?

2)AI CIVS are all expanding borders with many fortifications, so I've built a city inside their border.
Then I terraformed the fortification mining it, but the AI civ borders are not completely disappeard but they close a no-sense zone...........

[Azeem]

I had an SLIC Error come up - CRA_diplomod.slc:468:Array index 1 out of bounds.

Is there a way to fix this?

[Pedrunn]

Azeem,
Call to Power 2\ctp2_program\ctp\userprofile.txt

In the line 73 should be must be written

DebugSlic=No

This is a procedure that has to be done to all mods

If the DebugSlic is equal to 'Yes' slic errors will show up when playing the mods.

[SMIFFGIG]

does this mean there are alot of errors in the SLIC codes that people make ??

[J Bytheway]

Unfortunately, yes. They are, however, usually necessary errors to make the code work properly... Such is programming in SLIC.

[Peter Triggs]

Hmm, that bit about 'necessary errors' is not really correct.

Setting "DebugSlic=Yes" puts you into Debug mode. Every SLIC programmer should do this while he's writing and testing his program. It uses a bit more memory but you get much better and more complete error messages. If you get, for example, an 'out of bounds' error message while in debug mode and then set 'DebugSlic=No', you won't get the error message but the error does not go away. The game just ignores your code so it's not doing what you wanted it to do. These errors are always correctable: it's just a matter of tracking them down.

Azeem,

What's the date on the CRA_diplomod file that you're using? I looked at that code and can't see how, in the version I've got, you could get such an error.

[Azeem]

The date for CRA_diplomod is April 22, 2002.

I've already set "DebugSlic=Yes" to "DebugSlic=No" yet the SLIC errors continue to become a nuisance.