custom faction discussion and comparison thread - Page 2

Alinestra Covelia · February 22, 2000, 01:05

re: the Starwars modpack factions...

Shouldn't the Jedi Council be a Secret Project, buildable only to certain factions? I don't think that they really count in terms of population as another faction at all. They have special powers and fulfill different sociological roles (such as may exist in an admittedly ficitious society), but they should be a bit more like Transcendi or Empaths.

Then again, I have to admit I can't think of anything that would fit nicely into the final slot...except perhaps for the Chiss (even though they are a minor race, so are the Naboo, and you've included them happily). If nothing else, the Chiss do have Grand Admiral Thrawn, who is an unexcludable character and has to be in there somewhere!

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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

Alinestra Covelia · February 22, 2000, 14:26

Oh dear oh dear oh dear...them's fighting words!

VV: If you know me, then you know you're not going to get away with a comment like that scot-free... although I don't know much about this so I can't argue, I will, in true Magic: the Gathering style, *tap* our resident TIE Fighter expert Hu Man Bing, who has the following to say: [meanwhile Allie Cove goes off to make some tea]

1 Well, let's look at performance specs: TIE/D has heavy shielding and slight hull. MIS has heavy shielding and heavy hull (as it is built on the Cygnus Spaceworks Assault Gunboat model). One point to the MIS.

2 Speedwise, TIE/D has top speed of roughly 332 MGLT, with all systems redirected to engines. MIS has top speed of roughly 250 MGLT, but with the SLAMs activated, the speed is more like 430 MGLT. Of course, the MIS cannot maintain this speed for long, unless you use the Hu Di Ti trick:

The Hu Di Ti trick
To achieve high performance on MIS speeds, simply pressed N to activate SLAMs. However, before laser charge is drained, press N to switch off, then press N again quickly to switch on. This means that, whilst you never quite accelerate to top velocity, you never slow down quite to normal either. Best of all, your single laser will never fully run out of charge.

So, two points to MIS.

3 Maneuverability wise, MIS loses out with lower turn rate than TIE/D, although TIE/D has a significantly lower absolute maneuverability than a TIE/Advanced. (Note: although no maneuverability rate actually given, deduce the following: even with identical relative turn rates, TIE/Ad will take tighter absolute turns than TIE/D simply by virtue of having lower velocity.)

Two points to MIS, one to TIE/D.

4 Weapons: TIE/D possesses two ion cannons, two missile launchers, four laser cannons. MIS possesses one laser cannon, no ion cannons, and four warhead launchers. Tiebreaker: TIE/D can carry up to six concussion missiles per launcher. MIS can carry 20 concussion missiles per launcher, giving total of 80 concussion missiles.

Three-one, advantage MIS.

5 Compare craft amenities: TIE/D has no atmosphere, life support for 3 days, susceptible to ionization. MIS has internal atmosphere, life support for 1 week, and susceptible to ionization.

Four-one, final score. Game, set, and match to Allie Cove. Who is a wuss and can't fight her own online battles. Hence her soft texture.

... and there you have it! A succinct, powerful, and compact argument provided by a housemate. Isn't that nice?

[Note: this single post means that I had to give HMB a stint on the computer, and my best can-opener. So I hope you're satisfied.]

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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

"I cannot cope with HTML tags" - Hu Man Bing, general gam extraordinaire.
[This message has been edited by Alinestra Covelia (edited February 22, 2000).]

Vi Vicdi · February 23, 2000, 01:48

While Thrawn's Missile Boat is admittedly more effective I have always preferred the finesse of Zaarin's Defender.

Vi Vicdi · February 24, 2000, 05:14

The MIS, as I said before, is more effective, but it flies like a clunker.

A MIS will dominate as long as you've got missiles and long enough pauses to reload. A T/D will run virtually forever.

A MIS has one gun, which means it recharges both ammo and shields slowly.

A T/D has 6 guns, meaning it can get itself back into fighting trim in very short order. The T/D's higher shield recharge rate (xfering guns to shields) blows away the MIS' superior hull strength.

I'm surprised you didn't point out the single biggest survivability advantage of the MIS: it can outrun missiles!

A MIS, lacking Ion Cannons, has no choice but to reduce the battlefield to a smoking ruin or rely on undependable wingmen to disable stuff. T/D's, in capable hands, can turn a killing field into a looting ground of disabled but otherwise undamaged cargo-laden capital ships.

My trick for using the afterburner is to max it out then "coast" on max recharge then max out engines again for another "burst". Your method sounds a bit more energy-efficient, sort of the equivalent of tapping the Tab key in Privateer.

With a T/D you can run flat-out as long as you need, max recharge rates as you get within 4m of your target, coasting on your leftover speed, and be ready to fight -- with power restored to engines -- by the time you get within range. In terms of getting to your mission-critical targets quickly with some nominal level of combat effectiveness both craft excel.

T/A's, on the other hand, are clunkers, because of their acceleration. I tend to be "hands-on" when it comes to the throttle; for me good dogfighting means draining off speed when turning and accelerating when pursuing or evading. In a T/A "hands-on throttle" is something of a token gesture -- I haven't seen acceleration that bad since the Y-Wing, but the Y-Wing was so slow you hardly noticed.
The T/A also can't take a hit from an advanced missile more than once. The T/D and MIS both have the shielding to take it without suffering hull damage.

The MIS, to its credit, accelerates quite well on afterburner, and not being a dogfighter doesn't really need to decelerate quickly (in fact to "coast" you don't want fast deceleration).

Now as to why I prefer the T/D: I like to dogfight. I like to get in close and keep the guns blazing, usually all 6 of 'em, for as long as it takes. In a T/D you're amped up and in the zone and stay that way for the whole mission. It is a joy to fly.

In a MIS you're either shooting missiles or running like hell. In the thick of it you have to find a target at nominal range while dodging the stuff that's too close to engage -- unless you want to shoot your one gun at 'em, which in a MIS wastes valuable time you should be using to perform your mission.

The best setup of course would be a MIS with a T/D on its wing -- both are extremely fast and have complementary tactical profiles -- and in that situation I'd rather fly the Defender.

It's all about finesse: what good is a Big Gun if what you really need to dish out is a wrist lock or a knee to the groin? "It ain't what you do, it's how you do it ..."

P.S. I am quite pleased your housemate was succinct, powerful, and compact given your textural pliability -- I would hate to see your best can-opener underutilized. So I hope you're satisfied ...

Alinestra Covelia · February 24, 2000, 08:40

Right then, VV, I suppose you think you're clever, do you? I suppose you reckon you've forwarded a cognant, coherent argument, well-presented and difficult to argue against, eh? And I suppose that you estime yourself as being a bit of a Star Wars TIE Fighter knowledgey person extraordinaire, right?

Well, um... okay. Yeah. And don't you forget it!

By the way if you're into having a "melee des mots" with a self-reckoned TIE Fighter intelligentsi, throw everything you've got at HMB. He'll give you a run for your money, pretentious pseud that he is.

You can get his email address from our shared website, should you choose to brave its turpid depths and fey shadowy bits.

Meanwhile, back to the thread title...

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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

Vi Vicdi · February 25, 2000, 07:47

Right then, VV, I suppose you think you're clever, do you? I suppose you reckon you've forwarded a cognant, coherent argument, well-presented and difficult to argue against, eh? And I suppose that you estime yourself as being a bit of a Star Wars TIE Fighter knowledgey person extraordinaire, right?

Naw, I just know what I like.