Gibraltar - 99% say "NO!" to Spain.

[Giancarlo]

No, those are ours too. You see my double standards? Hehehe...

[Boris Godunov]

Give Gibraltar back to the Romans!

[Provost Harrison]

Hilarious

Now go away, the big boys don't want to play with you

[Chris 62]

A pointless comparisson Rich, we are talking about Gibraltar, not the US, once we get hold of it, it NEVER goes back, so why bring that up?

I have no idea what to do with Gibraltar, the only thing that I can think of is lettling the people living there decide, and they did.

[Plan Austral]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Yeah, both the Italians and Spanish are weird. Can you imagine what kind of freak would emerge if you were to crossbreed them?

Argentineans.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Plan Austral
Argentineans.

Case closed!

[Plan Austral]

Originally posted by Chris 62
As for the Falklands, they were NEVER Argentinian, when Britain claimed them there was NO Argentina, it belonged to Spain, and they never claimed the islands before the British.
The people living there are all British, but UNLIKE Gibraltar, there are no displaced decendents.

Argentina was already independent when the britons took the islands, it was not a unified country, it was a confederacy of states and the province of Buenos Aires was the province in charge of internacional relationships of the confederacy.
The argentinean rule of the island (The confederacy was known as Provincias unidas del rio de la Plata, United provinces of the river plate) lasted from 1810 to 1833, and there was argentinean population, but minimal.

Anyway, I dont care at all about the islands.

2 icy rocks inhabited by 4 old britons and their sheeps.
That sounds like hell to me.

[*End Is Forever*]

Anthony, you forgot fried bread.

As for Gibraltar, the simple truth is that the people of Gibraltar have a right to self-determination, and as such Gibraltar ought to remain British for as long as it's people do.

Of course, I could go on. Gibraltar has been a British territory for far longer than it was ever under Spanish control (the Spanish themselves "stole" the rock from the Morrocans previously). It is also completely and utterly hypocritical of the Spanish to demand Gibraltar back whilst maintaining their enclaves on the north coast of Africa - indeed, we saw earlier this year that they were prepared to risk a war over an uninhabited cliff.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Plan Austral


Argentineans.

You are forgetting all that Welsh blood.

[Plan Austral]

Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin


You are forgetting all that Welsh blood.

The welsh immigrants are in the far south, in the Patagonia.

[Dr. Nick]

I guarantee my country's military is better than yours. Without a doubt.

Like that destroyer run aground off Australia? Or the submarine run aground off the coast of Scotland?

As for the Falklands, they were NEVER Argentinian, when Britain claimed them there was NO Argentina, it belonged to Spain, and they never claimed the islands before the British.
The people living there are all British, but UNLIKE Gibraltar, there are no displaced decendents.

*ignorance sirens go off*

http://webs.sinectis.com.ar/mcaglian...administración

"Pero pronto las Provincias Unidas del Río de La Plata, por conducto de la Provincia de Buenos Aires, se ocuparon de la administración insular designando "permisionarios", "concesionarios", "comisionados", "comandantes" y "comandantes políticos y militares"."

Despite not taking charge as of 1810, Buenos Aires took care of the Administration and designated permissions, comissions and commanders to rule in their name.

"En 1829, por decreto del 10 de junio, Martín Rodríguez, en calidad de Gobernador delegado, crea la Comandancia Política y Militar con sede en la Isla Soledad y con un radio de acción que comprendía a las islas adyacentes al Cabo de Hornos en el Atlántico. Trátase de una organización institucional estable para el gobierno y la administración de las islas en el océano Atlántico. En aquella época, había intención del gobierno bonaerense de crear otra comandancia en "el Estrecho" y cuyo radio de acción comprendería las islas del Pacífico, lo que formalmente no se concretó.

El gobierno de Buenos Aires nombra a Luis Vernet como "Comandante Político y Militar", delegándose "en su persona toda la autoridad y jurisdicción necesaria" y con las instrucciones pertinentes.

Vernet, de simple empresario y concesionario, pasa a ser representante político del Gobierno bonaerense, timbrando la documentación con un sello que decía "Armas de la Patria. Comandancia de Malvinas y adyacentes".

Vernet levantó el Establecimiento, que estaba en ruina, y diez viviendas precarias para el cirujano, el almacén y el despensero, entre otros; y otras más modestas aún, para los gauchos; promovió exportaciones de cueros y carne salada; nombró agentes en el extranjero para que enviasen colonos; preparó mapas de las islas; dividió las islas en once secciones, cada una a cargo o bajo la inspección de un agente que debería obrar con independencia de los establecimientos que se fundasen; otorgó concesiones de tierras a colonos extranjeros, etcétera.

La pesca, la caza y sus utilidades constituyeron una preocupación constante para los administradores de las Malvinas. Los apetitos económicos de pesqueros extranjeros no podrán obviarse con "las reglamentaciones" de la Provincia de Buenos Aires, ni la significación estratégico-militar de las islas podía defenderse con una modesta dotación naval de un país en gestación. Por ello, todos los esfuerzos de Vernet y del Gobierno de Buenos Aires fueron a la postre insuficientes.

A comienzos de 1831 Vernet elaboró un plan para la organización de la caza de focas y ballenas y la defensa del litoral dependiente de su Comandancia, en aplicación de la ley de pesca. Las medidas punitivas afectaron a tres goletas norteamericanas, "Harriet", "Superior" y "Breakwater", de las cuales dos fueron capturadas, cuya suerte generó graves problemas diplomáticos con los Estados Unidos y con su cónsul en Buenos Aires, Jorge W. Slacum, que de paso representaba los intereses económicos de los pesqueros.

El cónsul mandó utilizar la fuerza de la corbeta de guerra de los Estados Unidos Lexington, a cargo del Comandante Silas Duncan, que desembarcó en las Malvinas y vandálicamente ocupó los principales edificios, apresó a los culpables de la detención de las Harriet, Superior y Breakwater, destruyó construcciones, incautó el almacén, cargó cueros y prisioneros y, luego de tamaño atropello al "derecho de gentes", regresó a Montevideo en febrero de 1832.

Vernet formuló una nueva propuesta para reconstruir la Colonia, que había quedado con sólo veinticinco habitantes, solicitando equipamiento y material humano para su expedición reivindicatoria. No tuvo respuesta ministerial formal.

A fines de agosto de 1832 se informó que el buque de guerra nacional, la corbeta "Sarandí», se estaba alistando para dirigirse al archipiélago. La noticia se confirmó el 10 de septiembre al darse a conocer el decreto emanado del Ministerio de Guerra y Marina, por el cual se nombraba Comandante Civil y Militar interino de las Islas Malvinas y sus adyacentes al Sargento Mayor de Artillería Don Esteban José Francisco Mestivier.

El 14 de septiembre de 1832, Rosas imparte las instrucciones al nuevo Comandante Mestivier y faculta al Comandante de la "Sarandí para darle posesión del mando con las formalidades de la ordenanza. Se le encomienda orientar a los habitantes en cultivos agrícolas y defender el honor de la República respondiendo con las fuerzas a los invasores. Desembarcaron el 10 de octubre de 1832 y ante la tropa y los habitantes asume Mestivier la Comandancia. El 30 de noviembre de 1832 una sublevación de parte de la guarnición no pudo ser reprimida por el Comandante, el que murió en la contingencia.

Durante la sublevación, José M. de Pinedo, comandante de la "Sarandí", se hallaba en el litoral de las Islas, fuera del Puerto. Cuando retorna reconviene a la tropa por sus excesos (quedaban sólo dieciocho hombres) y el homicidio de Mestivier.

El 2 de enero de 1833 se presentó en el puerto un navío de guerra de bandera inglesa, la "Clio", al mando de John James Onslow. La misión de J. M. Pinedo había terminado. La defensa era imposible. Reembarcó la tropa existente en el Establecimiento, dejando izado en tierra el pabellón argentino al cuidado de Juan Simón, a quien nombró Comandante Político y Militar de las Islas. El 4 de enero puso proa hacia Buenos Aires.

De allí en más, pasaron 149 años y nueve meses de reclamos diplomáticos hasta el 2 de abril de 1982. El 7 de abril de ese año con la designación del General de Brigada Mario Benjamín Menéndez, como Gobernador Militar del Territorio Nacional de las Islas Malvinas, se inicia en el archipiélago la segunda época de Gobierno y Administración argentinos."

Too lazy to translate that, but it proves that the Malvinas were illegally usurped by Great Britain since there was an Argentine administration in the Islands.

[Kontiki]

Isn't the British government trying to negotiate joint custody with the Spanish for Gibraltar? I don't think it's necessarily a case of Spain wants it back (although it does), but also Britain doesn't consider it vitally important anymore.

I also seem to recall that many Gibraltarans(?) work and shop over in Spain. And I know that Spain has shut the border down a few times, screwing some people over.

As for Hong Kong, again I may be incorrect, but I thought that most of the people actually wanted it to be part of China. They just feared the Chinese economic system. I thought it was pretty much the same deal as Taiwan - want to be a part of China, but on their own terms.

[Datajack Franit]

I never liked Spain and never will

[Giancarlo]

Good for you datajack, now can you provide a damn point for that?

If Gibraltar won't accept our rule we won't let them into our country. I know that is kind of nationalistic but if they want to spit in our country's face like this then they will get screwed.

To the Argentines here:

Why does your country claim a big portion of Antarctica? The land isn't your's. Infact it shouldn't be anybodys.

[Dr. Nick]

Why does your country claim a big portion of Antarctica? The land isn't your's. Infact it shouldn't be anybodys.

Everybody claims a piece of the Antarctica. Not just Argentina. Better inform yourself better Fuzzy Fezzie.

[Plan Austral]

Fez:
Because everybody does.
Chile, England, Australia, Argentina, and some more countries, they all claim a portion of Antartica and give different excuses like, geographic proximity, or having established cientific missions there very early.

I agree with you, Antartica shouldnt belong to any country.

Awrence, there is no need to be aggressive to Compañero Fez.

[Giancarlo]

Okay, okay, I was just wondering if there was history behind it...

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by El Awrence

Quote:

I guarantee my country's military is better than yours. Without a doubt.

Like that destroyer run aground off Australia? Or the submarine run aground off the coast of Scotland?

Quote:

As for the Falklands, they were NEVER Argentinian, when Britain claimed them there was NO Argentina, it belonged to Spain, and they never claimed the islands before the British. The people living there are all British, but UNLIKE Gibraltar, there are no displaced decendents.

*ignorance sirens go off*

I'd like to point out that neither of those statements was made by a Brit. A response to them as if they were British is kinda pointless.

Too lazy to translate that, but it proves that the Malvinas were illegally usurped by Great Britain since there was an Argentine administration in the Islands.

The British were there first, but were expelled by Spain in the 1770s. The Argentinians took over control of the islands in 1820. The US (not UK) attacked the fortifications in the Falklands and declared the Falklands as being "free of government". The British returned in 1833 based on claims of sovereignty dating back to before the Spanish expulsion.

Ignoring any legal claims, as both side can believe what they want, the only logical thing to do is to let the people of the island decide what to do. At last count almost no-one wanted to be ruled by Argentina.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Fez
If Gibraltar won't accept our rule we won't let them into our country. I know that is kind of nationalistic but if they want to spit in our country's face like this then they will get screwed.

How on earth is it spitting in anyone's face to vote that you don't want to be a part of a country to which you have no national ties? If a resolution was defeated in California that stated it would be given back to Mexico, would that be spitting in the face of Mexico?

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


How on earth is it spitting in anyone's face to vote that you don't want to be a part of a country to which you have no national ties? If a resolution was defeated in California that stated it would be given back to Mexico, would that be spitting in the face of Mexico?

This is Gibraltar we are talking about, not California or Mexico.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Fez


This is Gibraltar we are talking about, not California or Mexico.

It's called an ANALOGY Fez.

Now answer the question--how is it spitting in the face of Spain for British subjects to want to remain British subjects?

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by El Awrence
Like that destroyer run aground off Australia? Or the submarine run aground off the coast of Scotland?

See, we have a navy

[*End Is Forever*]

Fez,

If Gibraltar won't accept our rule we won't let them into our country. I know that is kind of nationalistic but if they want to spit in our country's face like this then they will get screwed.

Spain will have to withdraw from the EU it wants to do that... in fact, to be honest, I'm surprised the border arrangements aren't under scrutiny from Brussels already.

[Dauphin]

Is Gibraltar considered part of the EU?

If it is Spain could just send settlers in no problem - freedom of movement laws 'n' all. 25,000 or so would be able to swing the vote.

I'm surprised the border arrangements aren't under scrutiny from Brussels already.

Apart from the tax haven status of Gibraltar why would you think the EU would get involved?

[Japher]

Brits are always spitting in ppls faces and causing problems, you'd think Spain would be use to it by now.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Japher
Brits are always spitting in ppls faces and causing problems, you'd think Spain would be use to it by now.

Thats the French.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
It sucks to be Spain right now...

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Because Spain sucks ass.

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
I never liked Spain and never will

Some (or all) of this post can be jokes, but it's sad to read them

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Japher
Brits are always spitting in ppls faces and causing problems, you'd think Spain would be use to it by now.

Just quoted.

[yaroslav]

It's also sad to read attacks on british people, paiktis22. But as far as there is many english people they can defend themselves, much better that I can defend them
(My english is not very good)

[Bereta_Eder]

I am also the only Greek here and we have differences with the English and they are hoardes.

Kind of like it though. The sole defender against the brainless myriads of screaming hoardes. Like Constantinople.

Seriously, don't take anything seriously here except what YOU find interesting