This pack's AI's fighting ability sucks

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Turambar

Would it not be better to reduce the AI's science advantage and get it to press itself to it's fullest ability fight wise?

I'd rather see an AI with only a slightly higher tech lead fight as well as it can then a more reserved AI with a huge tech lead.

I think i have to agree with this in reguards to the SP game. On the higher difficulty settings(which i guess most people play with), It does seem a bit.....unbalanced to have the AI so far ahead in the tech/science race. I know the whole idea is to give the AI a big head start as no AI can as yet compete with a human player in these kind of games. But.......I sort of get a bit dismayed when i never get much of a chance to build any wonders or am always last on that tech list.
I think war over pillaging should be a priority if at war(or about to go to war) with another nation.
There must be some way to:

A: get the AI to build a few reasonable defensive units and keep them in it's cities(set some kind of minimum limit).

B: Build and combine units(which we have already) and send them to area's of threat(like when you send an army into it's territory) or a location if it plans on attacking a city.

C: Use multiple stacks when attacking a city(To create a front in it's war effort) if it has them available.

D: Make it attack cities more often when it has acheived these goals.

I know all this has been looked at (and from playing various Mods over the last year or so been addressed in some)but we still get a reluctant AI when attacking cities for the most part or in a situation where it will ignore an undefended city and pillage instead!

I think my most humiliating experience to date has come with WAW, when i got completely taken out. So whatever Dale had been tweaking did show that it was possible to make a real fighting AI.
Now to balance that with a good diplomatic game from the AI and a good tech goal from the AI........and combine it to be used with all Mods, this would be sweet!
Please let me know if it has been done already - i might have missed it

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
You will have to manually change the settings in the SAP strategies. If you simply rename my file, the game will crash because there are different governments in Cradle.

This is what I have done as I suspected the Craddle file would display some differences with the APOL file and could perhaps not be read adequately. Thanks for the tip anyway.

[hexagonian]

In looking into the problem, it seems that the AI has a variety of bonuses that have a cumulative effect, and I'm guessing that the PW bonus SLIC is the main culprit.

I did reduce the gold bonus from the PW booster SLIC, because that boost, along with the normal PW boost was probably the main culprit for the huge science race. (Reduced from 5 gold per pop to 2 gold per pop.)

One thing that does always work in the human player's advantage is that generally, the human player builds more cities, so over the long haul, he can surpass the AI. (BTW, this issue is being addressed in a unique way in the upcoming Ages of Man Mod by Dale.) What I have noted in my games is that the small civs are actually very powerful for a long time - eventually they do fall behind though. Actually, the same concept of bonuses/handicaps is used in EU2 to keep the small civs competitive. Its just that there is always a couple of civs that do an all-too-good job with the bonuses.

I have not done any changes to the CRA_Diff.Db.txt file for bonuses for a long time either - probably pre 1.3... Actually, my adjustmenst were more along the lines of eliminating the handicap that the AI was giving to itself when in the lead and giving it a bonus instead. (go figure...)

And I also just noted another setting in that file that handicaps the human player on higher levels - that setting I had never touched from the default game.

I do remember getting a good competitive game before that SLIC file was added and the AI did not seem to have such a great lead - so hopefully, the combo of a more warlike AI that attacks and seiges, and a reduced AI gold bonus will help balance things.

One final thing - I had tried to set up 'Impossible' in Cradle to be just that. I guess I was sick of hearing about players beating the game at 0AD on that level...

I always play at 'Very Hard' - exception being my current game at 'Hard'

[Adriano]

In order to reach the perfect balance between attack and pillage attitude of A.I. seems to me Cradle is the best.
I 'm playing 1.34 version( Hard Level) with a wonderful iper map and ultra wonderful Leo graphic pack.
Through 7000 years A.I. is showing several change of strategy, attacking my city with 5,8 , 12 units or simply pillaging or disappearing to concentrate the forces!!.
It keeps a good tech vantage!!.
The question is : which effect about changing the level to Hard or impossible ??
P.S.
Hex if you realize the pack with visible w. and city exp. you should call it 2.0 version!! ( at least 1.4......)

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian I did reduce the gold bonus from the PW booster SLIC, because that boost, along with the normal PW boost was probably the main culprit for the huge science race. (Reduced from 5 gold per pop to 2 gold per pop.)

I will also try this modified setting for my future SAP2 game.

[Dale]

About AOM:

From Hex:
One thing that does always work in the human player's advantage is that generally, the human player builds more cities, so over the long haul, he can surpass the AI. (BTW, this issue is being addressed in a unique way in the upcoming Ages of Man Mod by Dale.) What I have noted in my games is that the small civs are actually very powerful for a long time - eventually they do fall behind though. Actually, the same concept of bonuses/handicaps is used in EU2 to keep the small civs competitive. Its just that there is always a couple of civs that do an all-too-good job with the bonuses.

In Ages of Man, I'm trying a new concept I'm calling "Colonisation". Basically, at the start of the game you can't build settlers. When a city increases by 1 (call it Home City), there's a chance that the pop increase will instead settle a new city (call it Col City) somewhere in the vicinity of the Home City. The colonisation script I've created will search around the Home City for a good square to put the Col City. So instead of increasing by one, the Home City will spawn the Col City. This is how cities are created in the beginning of Ages of Man. However, after a certain tech is reached (This tech will be near the end of Epoche 2 before 0AD) a settler will become available. But once the Dark Ages arrive, it's all different again. You may only have a window of about 50 turns before the Dark Ages kicks in (depending what the AI is doing). I don't want to say much about the Dark Ages as it's a surprise.

On SAP2:

From Hex:
You will have to manually change the settings in the SAP strategies. If you simply rename my file, the game will crash because there are different governments in Cradle.

Yes, SAP2 has the default game's governments where Cradle uses it's own. It's probably best to VERY CAREFULLY check the current SAP2 strategies.txt as I made a LOT of other changes that will be effected. There's also extra STRATEGY_****'s in SAP2's strategies.txt to Cradle because of the warbuilder SLIC.

On WAW:

I think my most humiliating experience to date has come with WAW, when i got completely taken out. So whatever Dale had been tweaking did show that it was possible to make a real fighting AI.
Now to balance that with a good diplomatic game from the AI and a good tech goal from the AI........and combine it to be used with all Mods, this would be sweet!

You'll probably find this is more frenzy than strategies. WAW's frenzy is a lot more aggressive than Cradle's. Also, the warbuilder SLIC enables the AI to build massive armies, whereby Cradle needs to spread production over buildings, wonders and units.

[hexagonian]

Tales from the front regarding new settings... (1.34b)

Barbarians are really nasty now. I lost one game on turn 44 to a barb stack and had another game where they picked off another city early on. I ditched that game when I put together all of my military and was soundly smacked trying to retake the city.

I have to rethink my early game now...

Peter, I read through your analysis - good stuff... It clears up some questions I had. Wish I had it when setting up Cradle.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Dale
About AOM...

The colonisation concept is very interesting Dale, when do you expect to release the mod ?

Yes, SAP2 has the default game's governments where Cradle uses it's own. It's probably best to VERY CAREFULLY check the current SAP2 strategies.txt as I made a LOT of other changes that will be effected.

I have only changed the values for ATTACK, DEFEND and PILLAGE.

There's also extra STRATEGY_****'s in SAP2's strategies.txt to Cradle because of the warbuilder SLIC.

What are those extra strategies ?

[Dale]

Tamerlin:

Hopefully I can get an alpha out soon. I have so much to do that AOM is going to be released in a long while. I've almost finished up to 1500AD though. 700 years to go. *sigh*

What are those extra strategies ?

STRATEGY_BUILD_OFFENSE &
STRATEGY_DEFAULT_WAW

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Dale
Hopefully I can get an alpha out soon. I have so much to do that AOM is going to be released in a long while. I've almost finished up to 1500AD though. 700 years to go. *sigh*

Real life takes us too much time !

STRATEGY_BUILD_OFFENSE &
STRATEGY_DEFAULT_WAW

Thanks, I will have another look at them.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Tales from the front regarding new settings... (1.34b)Barbarians are really nasty now. I lost one game on turn 44 to a barb stack and had another game where they picked off another city early on. I ditched that game when I put together all of my military and was soundly smacked trying to retake the city.

On the flipside, barbarians have taken several AI cities, and this is not such a good thing. I had made some changes to cut down on so many splinter civs from popping up during the game, and this seems to be working, but when a city is conquered by the Barbs, it stays in Barb hands.

So using 1.34b changes the dynamics of the game in a way that I do not like. Others may feel differently about it though.

Impressions, anyone???

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
So using 1.34b changes the dynamics of the game in a way that I do not like. Others may feel differently about it though.

Impressions, anyone???

I'am currently using the ATTACK, SIEGE and PILLAGE settings of the 1.34b (I have not changed the settings of the Barbarians) for a Super Apolyton Game. I'am closing year 0 and the AI Civs are more aggressive, I have been attacked thrice and I have even lost a city as I had been caughed unprepared. Retaking the city was not easy as a 12 units stack was lingering between the fallen city and the closest of my cities The game is actually entertaining and I appreciate the changes. As Hexagonian suggested it I have also lowered the 5 gold bonus per citizen to 2 which allows the human player to build more military units to fight against a more aggressive AI without being utterly distanced in the Science field.

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by Dale
Tamerlin:

Hopefully I can get an alpha out soon. I have so much to do that AOM is going to be released in a long while. I've almost finished up to 1500AD though. 700 years to go. *sigh*



STRATEGY_BUILD_OFFENSE &
STRATEGY_DEFAULT_WAW

Dale, how do you get the AI to use your new strategies? Since the five non-Default strategies are determined by the "Diplomatic" flag in the personalities.txt file, what value are you putting there to get the AI to use your new STRATEGY_BUILD_OFFENSE for instance.

I created my own strategy, but cannot figure out how to make the AI use it.

according to the docs: "Diplomacy: Scientist" loads the STRATEGY_MILITARIST_DEFAULT and "Diplomacy: Ecotopian" loads the STRATEGY_ECOTOPIAN_DEFAULT.

For expmale, entering "Diplomacy: STRATEGY_BUILD_OFFENSE" or "Diplomacy: BuildOffense" will not work and the game will not run.

Thanks

[Locutus]

Using SLIC code, I presume.

[BurntHostage]

Hey thanks fer all tha feedback!
My settings have pillage of 3000 max eval 5 max exec 1
for all civ types.

They can only pillage once per turnn now.

Now my problem is goddamn Dr. Watson errors crashing my ctp2 games just when they're gettin good.

I did recently have to upgrade to win2k pro. any tips?

Thanks!!

[ahenobarb]

I use neither Dr. watson or Win2K for CTP2, so I can't be of much help. Perhaps just shut down Watson while you play?

Glad you have benefitted from the discussion. Also, until your most recent post, I never considered that "Max Exec" meant maximum number of times per turn the event could occur! Now we've both learned something!

"Max Eval[uate]" must mean maximum times per turn the computer should consider the move?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by ahenobarb
"Max Eval[uate]" must mean maximum times per turn the computer should consider the move?

You should visit

this page , there you find something like this:

MaxEval - Number of times this goal should be considered per turn
MaxExec - Maximum number of time this goal can be executed per turn

-Martin