FAM Campaign Thread

[Arnelos]

Current Candidates (will be updated tomorrow to add any last-minute contenders):

Arnelos
adaMada

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Arnelos (that's me) and adaMada, please post your thoughts on running for Foreign Affairs Minister. Citizens, please ask us questions.

For referenece, job description of the Foreign Affairs Minister:

3 The Foreign Affairs Minister
(a) The Foreign Affairs Minister has sole power over exchanges and trade agreements with other nations.
(b) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold to establish embassies, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.
(c) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold on Espionage, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.
(d) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into Right of Passage Agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.
(e) The Foreign Affairs Minister negotiates peace agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.
(f) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away gold must be approved by either the Senate or the President.
(g) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away workers must be approved by either the Domestic Minister or the President.
(h) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away cities must be approved by either the Senate or the President.
(i) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into any Military Alliance, Trade Embargo, or Mutual Protection Pact, but only with prior approval by the Senate.
(j) The Foreign Affairs Minister may appoint deputy ministers.

[Arnelos]

(a) The Foreign Affairs Minister has sole power over exchanges and trade agreements with other nations.

I tend to be very aggressive with mapwhoring and techwhoring, however I will certainly not be the only person in the Ministry working on this (as I would CERTAINLY delegate at least double-checking all numbers on this to a deputy minister, like E_T and adaMada were under Togas).

As for tech buys, that will largely be something I'll have to do in conjuction with the President and the Senate, as the slider is decided by the President and the budget is decided by the President and the Senate. I can't very well be buying techs unless I'm consulting with the Senate. Personally, my STYLE in positions like this is to attempt to frequently consult with the legislative body where possible. I would expect that I would have to work closely with whichever Senators are involved in budgetary matters and foreign policy matters.

It is also my intention to promote the posting (as I can't post myself if I'm FAM) of official polls where possible on such matters (where time permits). This will also, obviously, mean I'll need a fairly good working relationship with members of the Senate particularly interested in budgetary, science, and foreign policy matters.

(b) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold to establish embassies, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.

We're eventually going to need embassies with the remaining civs, but I don't see it as a critical issue for now (with the notable exception of any civ that we need specific things from for which an embassy is required). I'm fully willing to be convinced differently on the matter, however. This is an issue that will obviously need a Senate discussion and bill under the NewCon, along with Presidential approval, so that's a lot more hoopes to jump through for the FAM . I believe I am MORE THAN CAPABLE of that part of the job... but this isn't really the controversial part of this position.

(c) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold on Espionage, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.

I'm tempted to run this area myself, as it's not terribly large (even AFTER we build our Intelligence Agency, which likely won't be in the next term) and because I happen to have personal interest in the area. I'm also quite open to using spies to incite a diplomatic incident that gets a civilization to declare war on us. Though that would mean a rep hit, it would give us that 5 additional turns with reduced war weariness while playing as a Democracy. That could be critical in the coming term. The rep hit is a major issue, however, which I assume is the reason why the Senate and the President get the final say on this.

(d) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into Right of Passage Agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.

This is more controversial and more likely what people are interested in hearing from me about.

I do not like RoPs.

The only time I will sign a RoP, would be in the following (very limited) circumstances:

1. We are at war with a civilization we can't easily reach and we can get a RoP with a civilization in between with a decent railroad network. This so incredibly unlikely that you can probably just discount it.

2. If we and an ally are at war with a civilization that is next to us, but not our ally (which is blocked by our empire). Especially if we have railroads, signing a RoP in this case would be dependent on whether we WANT our ally to help us out (we MAY not...). For instance, if we want total annexation of the enemy, we may not sign the RoP. On the other hand, if we're outmatched (though I fail to see how...), then a RoP would be seriously considered.

3. The RoP is with a civilization halfway around the world who for some oddball reason wants to sell us a critical tech and signing a RoP will reduce the cost by at least a respectable amount. This isn't terribly likely, either... but, just in case.

(e) The Foreign Affairs Minister negotiates peace agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.

While I really didn't like this rule when the NewCon because I didn't like how the FAM could just pick which one to listen to (SMC or President), I can partially rectify that here and partially just take advantage of the way the rule was written . First of all, I would (and you can hold me to this) consult with BOTH the SMC and the President. Ideally, the three of us could come to a consensus decision, but ultimately I may have to decide on my own (if all three of us disagree and the two of them end up split).

As for ending wars, I would consider the advice of the SMC to be paramount (he's the one running the troops around), though some may consider the coming administration to be an exception with Aggie the likely President . Ultimately, however, I am entirely comfortable making the call on my own.

Making a conjecture for a moment, I think it would be fair to say that Thud (the likely SMC) is more peace-friendly than myself and Aggie (the likely President) is perhaps more war-friendly. Ultimately, I could end up having to make the call and I'm entirely comfortable with that. And I would be willing to stand for the result of my decision either way. OBVIOUSLY, if the decision is to be made between chats, I would consider it the correct course to consult with members of the Senate where possible (and where they are interested in the specific turn the war ends on).

(f) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away gold must be approved by either the Senate or the President.

I would certainly consult with the President, but my personal bias would be (if possible) to consult with the Senate. Obviously, the Senate isn't likely going to care about the VAST MAJORITY of trades with AI civs, so I'd see the President for most of them. However, I would consider it my duty to post the plans publicly for comment at the very least. I happen to be a big sticklery for what is called "institutional transparency", meaning that the people in the rank-and-file know what's going on at the top and why. I think my report on events from the last turnchat is a good example of how I at least ATTEMPT to get down all of the relevant information.

(g) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away workers must be approved by either the Domestic Minister or the President.

This is pretty non-controversial. Quite frankly, whether it's GhengisFarb or E_T, I'd be willing to defer largely to their wishes in regards to whether we should be selling workers or buying workers and how many, etc.

(h) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away cities must be approved by either the Senate or the President.

I cannot forsee us EVER giving away cities, though it is remotely possible (there were some oddball strategies posted somewhere a while back on cultureflipping a city and selling it different civs over and over... I'm not a fan of this oddball strategy, though I'm always open to being convinced by hard data).

Don't plan on EVER seeing a city sold under my tenure unless there's a VERY COMPELLING reason for it. Obviously, the Senate and the President are in this for that reason .

(i) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into any Military Alliance, Trade Embargo, or Mutual Protection Pact, but only with prior approval by the Senate.
(j) The Foreign Affairs Minister may appoint deputy ministers.

This is by far the most controversial area of the FAM job. Thankfully, even if you don't like what I think about this issue, it's the Senate that ultimately decides this issue.

That said, I would propose to the Senate signing MPP's only in the following situations:

1. We (or someone else) are/is within 1-2 turns of completing the United Nations. If this is the case and we want a diplomatic victory, we just get as many MPP's as humanly possible in that last turn before the U.N. is done - game victory. This obviously won't be happening in Term VI

2. I would consider asking the Senate if they want an MPP if it looked like we could use said MPP to manuever ourselves into doing something like being allied with Germany in a war against Greece (or the other way around). For instance, it would be possible to sign an MPP with say Germany (if they're willing) and cause a diplomatic incident with Greece to start the war, causing Germany to be allied with us against Greece. This, in my opinion, is really the one and only true use for MPPs when you are the dominant power (divide and conquer).

3. If, by some horrible turn of luck, we end up being markedly inferior in military force, it may be valuable to sign an MPP with at least one of the other major powers in Abananaba Major for the following reason: If either of us are attacked, we fight *together* agiainst other powers. The best allies would be Germany and Greece (hoping to pit one against the other, as with #2). I highly doubt this possibility, however.

-----------------------------

This all said, however, the most important factors about me to consider:

1. I am strongly committed to transparency in democratic government. You can count on extensive reports on any decisions made by the Ministry.
2. I have no difficulty with delegating authority. I believe that I would likely make AT LEAST my primary Deputy Minister (the Vice Minister) responsible for double-checking all numbers on trades (so that two of us are doing it). I have a v1.21 because I'm currently filling in for President MrWIA as the executive at turnchats (through the end of this term).
3. It is my intention to work closely with the Senate. This is not merely rhetoric, as I specifically plan to help bring together a group of Senators to serve as an advisory body for the FAM as well as the group I would turn to in order to post polls (Senate Bills) and conduct discussions on options. As stated above, it is also my intention to work with any leaders that eventually arise in the Senate to organize budgetary policy. Though obviously all of the ministers would need to consult with them.
4. It is also my intention to consult with the other elected members of the cabinet on any pertinent policy that may impact them. I generally try to always consult every possible official party affected by a decision before I make it. I think those present at the turnchat this weekend can vouch for that My approach to executive leadership is very much a consensus-building approach over a confrontational approach (which differs to some extent from my legislative leadership style ).

I am open to questions, as I'm not quite sure what else I'm going to add to such a long post at this point . So, fire away with the questions

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Well, I posted first... However, that does give my opponent the benefit of being able to respond

[Arnelos]

This is the SECOND election where I'm up against the publisher of the Gazette.

I'm getting the impression that someone must think I'm the reincarnation of Skyalker (meaning the Apolyton poster who used that name)

[Arnelos]

adaMada, I just tried to respond to your PM, but your inbox is full.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Arnelos
adaMada, I just tried to respond to your PM, but your inbox is full.

Sorry Arnelos, I'll empty it.

Expect longer statements and answers to questions from me later today .

-- adaMada

[UnOrthOdOx]

Both: What are your feelings towards the proposed war on Germany? (see war academy thread, too hung over to get the link)

Both: Shaka wishes to know what your plans are to improve relations with him personally.

[E_T]

Both: What would be your Monitary maximum limit per tech to purchace Technologies from the AI? Minumum to Sell? The same with WM, TM, Luxes & Resources?

E_T

[joncnunn]

Also to both, what would be your time frame for buying the techs we need to finish the middle ages?

And how muich of a priority would you make buying Nationalism once we can?

And would we make buying in a GPT deal prefered for a civ we are trying to get to declare war on us, or else purposely advoid doing so, or else just buy from whoever we can get it the cheapest?

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Both: What are your feelings towards the proposed war on Germany? (see war academy thread, too hung over to get the link)

While I have typically been opposed to wars, I can see the merit in going to war with Germany. I agree with many, however, in that I believe that we need more than 20 cavalry for this job - should it be done.

That said, the decision on whether to go to wardoesn't seem to be under the FAM in the NewCon, but rather exclusively a decision of the Senate (and the President). Obviously, if FAM, I'd hope to be consulted (not like they could get me to shut up even if they tried ), but ultimately this is the Senate's decision.

The area where the new FAM will have a lot more impact is in setting up the conditions for war. This is an area that is likely to be controversial for some:

Especially if we are unable to field more than 20 cavalry, or some other inadequate number, for the purpose of such a war (should it be fought at all), then I would certainly consider signing alliances against Germany with neighboring states such as the Aztecs, England, and Greece. Perhaps even sign such agreements with Russia and/or Rome (even though they cannot help out). The reasoning is rather simple: To prevent Germany from getting other AIs to declare war on us, the best option (especially if the war objective is to WIPE OUT Germany) is to ally with those same AI civs against Germany. This both prevents them from allying against us AND gives us diplomatic bonus with those civs during the duration of the war.

The only downside to such a diplomatic strategy is that some German cities could end up falling to Greek, Aztec, and English forces rather than to our own. This IS a disadvantage and one we should consider. HOWEVER, it is my belief (though the Senate does get the final word on this stuff ) that the risk of having Greece, England AND Germany all at war with us at the same time is far worse than ending up with 1-3 German cities under Aztec, English, or Greek rule when we get all of the rest.

The only other matter that concerns a potential war with Germany that would concern me, as FAM, would be when the war would END. I am of the opinion that such a war should only end when:

1. The military objectives have been met. I assume the military objective is to remove Germany as a technology leader and to completely annex it quickly (to reduce time with rising war weariness as much as possible). As such, I would only end the war when Germany is COMPLETELY ANNIHILATED.

2. When it becomes clear that the stated military objectives (I assume German annihilation) are impossible or highly improbable of being accomplished. IF we allied with Germany's other neighbors, this would be near on to impossible, but ANYTHING is possible and I'd be willing to consider an early peace if it looks like the war is going to turn against us and our attack completely and utterly failed (the SMC in disgrace, etc, etc, etc.).

If I was to attempt to continue wars beyond their usefulness in obtaining the stated military objectives or trying to end them pre-maturely before the stated military objectives are met, I'd just be messing with the SMC's war plans as well as messing with national interest (especially if we'd end up taking a HUGE reputation hit for cancelling any alliances against Germany).

Both: Shaka wishes to know what your plans are to improve relations with him personally.

Shaka should know that Apolytonia is interested in bringing his people some of the benefits of the Apolytonian enlightenment. We are interested in his supply of gems and MIGHT be willing to provide tidbits of enlightenment in return. Just how that would take place is something that will have to be decided in conjunction with the Senate.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by E_T
Both: What would be your Monitary maximum limit per tech to purchace Technologies from the AI?

MAXIMUM TO PURCHASE TECHS

Togas' current level of 600 gold has been good for the Middle Ages, but the inflation in the price of techs as we enter the Industrial Age will make (and indeed already has made) this number far too low.

I believe that the answer to this question will be highly dependent upon the decision of the populace in the official science slider poll. Should the populace tie, of course, I happen to be in the unique position (as acting president in the turnchats) to break that tie under the current term until likely Aggie takes over as President for the next term and can make a more permanent decision. However, I find it unlikely that I will end up breaking that tie (and don't know yet which way I'd decide if I did - both arguments are very compelling...)

Ultimately, it is quite likely that we will have to choose a course where we research some technologies in the Industrial Age (most likely ones the AI typically does not go after) and trading for or buying others.

IF WE HAVE 0% SCIENCE SLIDER:

Obviously, we're going to be needing to buy technologies. With the prevailing price of the average tech right now exceeding 1200 Gold and the price to likely skyrocket in the early Industrial Age to over 2000 Gold, I would not consider a maximum of 1500-2000 unreasonable, especially if we're making over 900 gold per turn as E_T claims. That said, I would hope that we would every other available bargaining chip (especially resources and luxuries) to reduce the price where-ever possible.

IF THE HAVE 60% SCIENCE SLIDER:

It would be reasonable to keep the limit at under 1000 Gold for now in order to research either Theory of Gravity or Magnetism and purchase the other one. As for Nationalism, the gold limit would have to be raised unless we could get it cheaper as part of a deal for an alliance against presumably Germany, luxury sale, resource sale, or other deal. I would think that research would be toward Medicine or Steam Engine, which if we got first (there's always a chance...), we could trade to the AIs for a vastly reduced price on something like Communism.

ULTIMATELY:

My goal would be to get us to the point where we have tech parity with the AI around the time that Corporation, Sanitation, Replaceable Parts, and Scientific Method, and Atomic Theory are being researched. At this point, it would be POSSIBLE to research and establish UNSELLABLE TECHNOLOGIES, such as Atomic Theory and Electronics (especially if we can use Theory of Evolution to get them first... though I sorta doubt it). If we did that, we could have a very high maximum on tech buys and buy stuff like Corporation, Refining, and Steel while researching up to Electronics and start construction on Hoover Dam.

However, I doubt this possibility and believe that we will likely have to research technologies and use every tech we reserach to bargain in trades for additional technologies (which will certainly GREATLY reduce the maximum I'd allow for tech buys).

Minumum to Sell?

This will also inflate as we head into the Industrial Age and, as I said above, we MAY (just may, crossing my fingers!) be able to eventually establish UNSELLABLE technologies. However, in the near future, I believe the current value of 75 gold is reasonable, though will need to be inflated to a figure between 100 gold and 200 gold in the Industrial Age. Personally, I would be biased toward a high figure. Exceptions could be made if we can get luxuries (such as gems from the Zulus) or critical resources out of an AI civ for an older tech.

Ultimately, we MAY want to establish a civ as one we will sell NO TECHNOLOGY TO as a means of attempting to halt their development while we prepare to invade them. If it looks like the populace is in favor of a Zulu invasion, I may very well do this with the Zulus until just before a war starts (to perhaps sell a tech to empty out their treasury).

The same with WM, TM, Luxes & Resources?

The current minimum of 50 gold to sell luxuries or resources has worked for the late Middle Ages (for the most part), but is far too low for the Industrial Age. If we're selling a luxury for 50 gold and then we could have used the same luxury to reduce the cost on a critical technology by a few hundred gold, we've made a mistake.

In my opinion, as we enter the Industrial Age, the minimum should be at least partially dependent on the size of the empire we're selling to and a reasonable minimum would be 100 gold for now. That may very well rise as we move later into the game, as most luxury and resource deals later on will garner us as much as 20-50 LPT in the late Industrial Age. It would be a wate to sell a luxury to the Iroquois for 5 LPT when we could have sold the same one to the Romans for 35 LPT. A large part of how low I would be willing to accept a trade deal will be dependent upon the international demand/supply of the luxury/resource.

As for worldmaps, at this point it's really just a simple matter of mapwhoring. There is no longer (unless we find an island with oil on it no-one else knows about) any compelling strategic reason to withold our worldmap from people. As such, we should just continue exploring with those boats, buying up a bunch of worldmaps, and then selling our worldmap to every single civ in the game.

The reason to sell to ALL civs (if they give us even 1 gold for them) is that you prevent the AI civs from then selling to each other and moving gold from the smaller civs to our competitors (instead, we get it). It's important to deny our major competitors every drop of gold that we can.

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Also to both, what would be your time frame for buying the techs we need to finish the middle ages?

I think I partially already answered this question in my answer to Unorthodox, but here's a go on the timing question:

Regardless of whether we end up with 0% or 60%, I would heavily lobby for the FAM to get the needed funds for us to enter the Industrial Age at the earliest possible date. The sooner that we are able to research a tech that no-one else already has, the better.

If we have 0% science, we buy both.
If we have 60% science, we buy the one we aren't researching.
In either case, I'd be happy with paying as much as 1000 Gold to get them - we need to get out of the Middle Ages and start researching something they don't have (probably Medicine).

And how muich of a priority would you make buying Nationalism once we can?

Depends on how fast we get out of the Middle Ages. If we're slow at it, buying it may be the best option (and the price will certainly be over 1000 Gold - perhaps as high as 1500 or more).

If we do this right, however, we could research Medicine on our own and trade for Nationalism and Steam Engine (to different AIs on the same turn) and dramatically reduce the price. We'll probably still have to pitch in some cash for it, but it'll be worth it.

We need nationalism for riflemen and we need steam engine for rail roads. Both are military NECESSITIES.

And would we make buying in a GPT deal prefered for a civ we are trying to get to declare war on us, or else purposely advoid doing so, or else just buy from whoever we can get it the cheapest?

Ultimately, we should buy from whomever offers us the cheapest price. However, if we're about to declare war on Germany and they'll give us a decent LPT deal on a tech we want (say Communism or Industrialization), then why not? Especially if it means we don't have to sell them one of our own techs (likely Medicine or by that point Electricity) to get it.

[adaMada]

Campeign Statement:

NewCon
3 The Foreign Affairs Minister

In general, I think Togas has set a good example for the FAM. I don't mean to say that I won't innovate or try new things, but I think he was a good example of an efficient, effective FAM, and I plan to bring a lot of his philosophies with me from my time serving under him.

(a) The Foreign Affairs Minister has sole power over exchanges and trade agreements with other nations.

In general, I'd like to continue our current policy. Our trading has combined with our military might to make us a dominant force; I want to see this continue. We should continue to liberally trade our excess luxuries and resources -- through this strategy, we've become a rich nation, which has allowed us to prosper in other areas.

(b) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold to establish embassies, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.

In general, I'm for embassies. We have them with almost everyone now, but I think they're quite important for a diplomatic nation. I would continue Togas' policy of spreading establishments out over time until .

(c) The Foreign Affairs Minister may spend gold on Espionage, but only after the approval of either the President or Senate.

Espionage is, in general, very expensive and risky. Having said that, we are a rich nation. Any espionage decisions will have to be made in consideration of the situation, the nation we'd be spying on, and the state of our nation. As such, I really can't say much meaningful about it now .

(d) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into Right of Passage Agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.

I was a proponent of signing a RoP agreement with Persia to ensure peaceful relations with them, back before the French war.

I'm not above admitting I was totally wrong. As those who were around then know, Persia declared war on us anyway, leading to a very long and painful conflict.

In general, I see little use for RoPs. They are an invitation for enemy units to go running through our lands, while also giving the AI the ability to get in our way. As such, I'm generally against them. I might be willing to make exception for some of the Lost Civs, as there is little chance that they'll be able to use this to their advantage, but I'd have to see profit in it first, which I don't see now. And, as Arnelos pointed out (and reminded me ), there are always situations where we might want a civilization to pass through our territory to reach another. Either way, I’d probably take any such plans as they came.

(e) The Foreign Affairs Minister negotiates peace agreements, but only after the approval of either the President or Supreme Military Commander.

On war and peace, in general: (I understand that the power to declare war is given to the Senate, but the power to end war is equally important, so here's what I think in general)
I'm an independent. I favor war when I see the gain, and peace when I do not. I will always take the time to hear the will of the people, the Military, and the Presidency before making any decision on the matter. In general, I'm a strong believer in keeping our options open. For the immediate future, I'd like to see us build up our nation more, but I'd always be willing to consider a just war (one they started ), or any war with clear gain for our nation, beyond a few more cities.

(f) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away gold must be approved by either the Senate or the President.

I plan to make many trades. We have a strong economy, and as long as we do, I intend to pay cash for many things, within the confines of the budget and needs of the other ministers. Gold is quickly replaced, and it is pointless to have unless we plan to use it (with the possible exception of after we have Wall Street ).

(g) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away workers must be approved by either the Domestic Minister or the President.

In the past, I've seen several trades where we've saved serious amounts of money by including a worker. As such, I plan to request that we use them whenever there is benefit to doing so. On the flip side, if we can get a worker for a good amount of money, I will be strongly in favor of acquiring it -- we can always use a stronger workforce. By both selling workers when it is worthwhile and buying workers when it is possible, we can use our Workers to our advantage while also reinforcing our worker force.

(h) Any trade, exchange, or gift that involves giving away cities must be approved by either the Senate or the President.

In 1.21f, giving away cities is practically useless. If we ever were in a nasty military conflict which we were loosing, I could see myself considering giving the enemy a small (perhaps just created) city for peace -- but I doubt that'll happen this term, and I don't see the need to focus on any such plan anyway .

(i) The Foreign Affairs Minister may enter into any Military Alliance, Trade Embargo, or Mutual Protection Pact, but only with prior approval by the Senate.

I have mixed feelings about Military Alliances. If we ever want to destroy a nation more then we want to take something away from a nation, a Military Alliance will be very useful.

I am generally against Mutual Protection Pacts. I don't like putting ourselves at the risk of war at any time, and the AI doesn't have an especially good track record for not pulling its allies into war . I could see it as a possibility – but a remote one. Perhaps if we had the strongest military, were bloodthirsty, and didn’t care who our target was…

I have few feelings about Trade Embargos at this time. If one ever seems appropriate, I'll consider the merits at that time.

(j) The Foreign Affairs Minister may appoint deputy ministers.

I have many plans for organizing the Foreign Ministry. Primarily, I plan keep the Department split into Intelligence, Advisory, and Executive branches. The Intelligence Branch should be largely concerned with tracking and analyzing raw data for the public and department. The Advisory Branch should be responsible for planning and assessment of situation. The Executive Branch's job is to coordinate between the other two branches, write orders, and make final decisions. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the organizational system I have in mind, with the understanding that it will be similar to Togas' and I haven't totally ironed it out yet. I will also consider the merits (or lack of) of appointing a Representative to the Senate and/or a Representative to the Executive. Under the new CoL, the Foreign Minister (rightly) must defer to other bodies in many instances, and if I believe that there is sufficient work to appoint a full time representative, I will gladly appoint one.

I ask everyone to remember that my comments here are only my first brush thoughts. I am a very strong believer in assessing each situation as it occurs, and I obviously can’t say that the opinions expressed above won’t change. I feel that we utilize our strengths as a group best by keeping open minds and listening to each other, and this will be a guiding policy if I am elected FAM.

I will do my best to answer any questions in this thread. Best of luck to Arnelos, who would also be wonderful for the position, and all the other candidates .

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

Any more questions from the citizens?

----------------

At this point (given that the election polls will be posted today), I only have one question for my opponent (everything else I believe voters can already see from our two statements and my answers to citizen questions):

What impact will your becoming FAM have upon your new position as the publisher of the Jungle Gazette (or the other way around)?

(the same question was asked of Unortho when he ran against me)

[adaMada]

First thing first: Let me go ahead and say that my answers will not be as long as Arnelos' are . I'm not sure if this is good or bad .

Now, answers to questions:

UnOrthO,
I'll answer your questions as soon as I've had a bit more time to examine the discussion and situation .

Originally posted by E_T
Both: What would be your Monitary maximum limit per tech to purchace Technologies from the AI? Minumum to Sell? The same with WM, TM, Luxes & Resources?

E_T

I will probably wind up setting some maximum limit for decisions by deputies in the chat, but in general I don't plan to obey a set maximum limit. The amount we are willing to pay will vary from tech to tech, based on what we need and what the tech is worth. For example, if we're planning to go to more, I'd generally be willing to pay much more for Military Tradition then I would for Free Artistry -- simply because Military Tradition would be a more pressing concern. Though I'm sure that a practical maximum limit will have to be set, I don't plan on picking a number and going with it -- I feel that any such limit should be flexible, and based on what people are asking for and the worth of the tech. I feel similarly towards luxuries -- I'd be more willing to sell cheaply a luxury that isn't in demand and we have a surplus of than one that we have one extra of and are the only person on our continent with. When it comes to selling items, I agree that we cannot afford to sell things at a loss simply because the AI doesn't have enough money to pay us the worth of the item. We should combine as many deals as possible, even if it means delaying some renewals until a given turn. If we can synchronize our renewals, we'll be able to extract the maximum value from the AI.

Originally posted by joncnunn
Also to both, what would be your time frame for buying the techs we need to finish the middle ages?

And how muich of a priority would you make buying Nationalism once we can?

And would we make buying in a GPT deal prefered for a civ we are trying to get to declare war on us, or else purposely advoid doing so, or else just buy from whoever we can get it the cheapest?

I plan to make all important tech trades as soon as is possible. In this case, it depends a lot on what happens with the Science slider -- I could see us buying some of the last Middle age techs within the next few turns if the science Slider is put to 0%. Again, I'm not terribly fond of giving exact numbers because so much depends on the situation -- I do plan on making buying these techs a top priority, as soon as we are either willing to pay exuberant prices for them or the price drops.

Nationalism is a very important tech -- and would receive a good deal of attention from the Foreign Ministry. Again, I'd be willing to put a significant amount of money into it so that we can get it as soon as possible.

In general, I prefer hard gold to GPT deals. Having said that, I'd clearly consider exceptions. If we believe a Civ may declare war on us in the near future, I'd probably go with GPT. If we're trying to get a civ to declare war on us, then going with GPT could cause the Civ to not declare war on us, so we'd have to consider carefully. If we're going to declare war on a different civilization, then GPT must clearly be avoided at all costs. As I've said, I'm flexible -- if someone can give a good reason for GPT over gold, I'd always be willing to consider it.

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Arnelos
Any more questions from the citizens?

----------------

At this point (given that the election polls will be posted today), I only have one question for my opponent (everything else I believe voters can already see from our two statements and my answers to citizen questions):

What impact will your becoming FAM have upon your new position as the publisher of the Jungle Gazette (or the other way around)?

(the same question was asked of Unortho when he ran against me)

Clearly, life is a balance. Within the Demogame, I shed and accept responsibilities each Term.

I feel that FAM is a very important position. It will clearly cut into my time for the Gazette, and I can't deny that I'll wind up with a lot more time to funnel into the Gazette should I loose. Having said that, I hope to balance both. Though I publish the Gazette, Meshelic is the primary Editor, meaning that I don't play nearly as large a role as UnOrthOdOx did. Circumstance demanded that I write many articles for this Gazette, but if I don't have much time in the future, I hope to see most of the articles being written by others, with my major job becoming publishing the gazette itself. Furthermore, several old Gazette staffers have returned and recently announced that they could resume publication, meaning that I may be able to take an even less active role in the future.

If push comes to shove, FAM has to come first. It is the elected position, and I can always turn to help for the Gazette. Having said that, the Gazette is a community project -- not mine. I hope that all of my (and UnOrthO's) projects can continue to live, with the guidance and support of the community.

People have been known to achieve more as a result of working with others than against them.
-- Dr. Allan Fromme

-- adaMada

[adaMada]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Both: What are your feelings towards the proposed war on Germany? (see war academy thread, too hung over to get the link)

Both: Shaka wishes to know what your plans are to improve relations with him personally.

I've read the threads on war with Germany. As of now, I'm still undecided. I see the benefit of war with Germany, but I also see the benefit of a peaceful buildup. I'd have to consider the issue and it's ramifications much more deeply before making a personal decision as to my support. Having said that, the public seems to support war on Germany, and I will obviously make preperations for such.

I'd love to have better relations with Shaka, as long as he doesn't mind Thud landing the military on his island and taking his luxuries. He's just gotta understand, there's no controling those warmongers after they taste blood .

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

[completley non-serious for a moment]

adaMada is uneasy about war with Germany and he has a German Panzer as his Avatar.

I've said I don't consider war with England to be worth the trouble as much as war with Germany and I have an English Prime Minister as my Avatar.

hmmm.....



[/completely non-serious for a moment]

[adaMada]

Originally posted by Arnelos
[completley non-serious for a moment]

adaMada is uneasy about war with Germany and he has a German Panzer as his Avatar.

I've said I don't consider war with England to be worth the trouble as much as war with Germany and I have an English Prime Minister as my Avatar.

hmmm.....



[/completely non-serious for a moment]

. Didn't notice that at all .

Any more questions from the public?

-- adaMada

[Meshelic]

Yes are you both spies?

[joncnunn]

Ada Mada, on GPT deals and AIs willingnesss to go to war:

I've never seen the AI take how much GPT they are getting in a deal into consideration on their war decisions. I have litterly had the AI declare war on me the same turn that they signed a GPT deal that gave them 23 GPT for a middle age tech. (This of course gave me a tech absolutely free.) Basically, I noticed that they had a unit inside my territory, but checked out what techs they had first, and bought it with a pure GPT deal and then told them to get out or declare war and they chose war.

[adaMada]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Ada Mada, on GPT deals and AIs willingnesss to go to war:

I've never seen the AI take how much GPT they are getting in a deal into consideration on their war decisions. I have litterly had the AI declare war on me the same turn that they signed a GPT deal that gave them 23 GPT for a middle age tech. (This of course gave me a tech absolutely free.) Basically, I noticed that they had a unit inside my territory, but checked out what techs they had first, and bought it with a pure GPT deal and then told them to get out or declare war and they chose war.

I greatly appreciate the insight.

To be honest, I've never been able to figure out some of the weirdnesses of the Civ 3 AI . I'm not sure if the AI does take GPT deals into account at all when declaring war, so I totally believe you when you say they don't. Either way, if the situation ever arose we'd figure it out, and then use it to our advantage .

Having said all of that, thanks a lot for mentioning it -- I would have probaby wondered around not knowing for the next few terms otherwise .

-- adaMada

[Arnelos]

I thought that was how the AI worked (noticed the same thing myself in single-player), but I've never really been sure. Firaxis doesn't exactly publish that type of stuff

[Arnelos]

As posted in the FAM Election Poll thread...

-------------------------------------------------------

Since I think both adaMada and I would like to avoid making this race about us personally, since we both highly respect each other, the following is an attempt to give (as Togas requested) a reason why one would vote for one or the other of us based upon the issues.

I offer my apologies in advance if I have in any way mischaracterized any statement by adaMada, as it has certainly not been my intent to do so. Several of the differences below may lead certain voters to vote for me and other voters to vote for adaMada. My intent is to make it easier for voters to ascertain where each of us stand on issues that may or may not be important to them.

Thank You.

---------------------------------------------------------------

ARNELOS AND ADAMADA ON THE ISSUES

Issues Where a Clear Difference Exists
(in order of significance in difference)

Collaboration with Senate:
Arnelos: Intention to work closely with Senate. States that this is not just rhetoric, as specific plan is to help form a FAM advisory board of Senators who have the dual role of advising FAM and introducing Senate legislation on FAM issues (giving them oversight of FAM).
adaMada: Is thinking about appointing a Senate rep.

Peace Agreements:
Arnelos: Would consider whether the stated war aims have been met as the primary determinant of signing any peace treay. Pledges, however, to consult both SMC and President, even though only required to consult one of them. Would ulimately consider SMC's advice more important than President's if otherwise undecided.
adaMada: Declares himself an independent: favors war when he sees gain and opposes war when he doesn't. Would try to follow the will of the people.
(issue requires President or SMC consultation)

Military Alliances:
Arnelos: When war was declared with a specific target, would suggest to Senate the signing of these with the target's neighbors to prevent the target for getting its neighbors to ally against us. Would also consider suggesting these be signed with other powers to prevent the target from getting them to declare war on us as well. Would attempt to get better tech deals (if possible) in the process. Considers this a useful tactic for executing a "divide-and-conquer" strategy against the AI civs.
adaMada: Has mixed feelings about them. Would consider them if our goal was to destroy a nation rather than completely annex them.
(issue requires Senate approval)

Embassies:
Arnelos: We may eventually need them with all, but embassies with some nations are not critical at the moment because we need no deals with them that require an embassy. Saving money (at least for now) for critical tech purchases and other needs is the better choice.
adaMada: Would like to complete all embassies.
(issue requires President or Senate consultation)

Campaign Themes:
Arnelos: Thinks Togas did a wonderful, wants to build on it under NewCon: Institutional Transparency, Consultation with Senate, Willing to play Machiavellian politics with the AI, willing to delegate authority
adaMada: Plans to borrow a lot of Togas' ideas, would keep organization of FAM basically the same with potential addition of Senate rep, "a very strong believer in assessing the situation as it occurs"

War with Germany:
Arnelos: Is not a warmonger, but sees the merit of war with Germany due to their tech leader status. Would consult with SMC on whether alliances with other civs against Germany would be useful and suggest them to Senate if so. Would also suggest alliances to Senate against Germany for civs we don't want allied to Germany during the conflict ("divide-and-conquer" strategy). Would only support ending such a war when the war objectives have been met, which he assumes would be either (1) annihilation of Germany or (2) elimination of Germany as at technological contender. Considers it paramount for the Senate and SMC to establish this before the war so that he has a basis for determining whether it is time for peace.
adaMada: As of now, still undecided. Sees benefit, but also sees benefit of peaceful buildup. Would have to consider the ramifications more deeply before making a decision as to support. Sees that public seems to support it, however.

Issues Where a Partial/Technical Difference Exists

What Each of us would Delegate:
Arnelos: Vice-Minister, Deputy for Researching trade possibilities (at least double-checking them), Deputy for Information/Intelligence, and a Senate committee with FAM Advisory and Oversight ability
adaMada: Plans to have deputies for (1) Intelligence, (2) Advice, (3) Executive (vice-minister). Would consider merits of appointing a Senate representative.

Espionage:
Arnelos: Will likely delegate the mechanics and the "intelligence side", open to using spies to incite wars against us (for democracy war weariness benefit as well as any MPP benefit if we ever have one) if other options are unavailable.
adaMada: Considers espionage very expensive and risky. Otherwise, "I really can't say much meaningful about it now".
(issue requires President or Senate consultation)

Giving Away Workers:
Arnelos: Would largely defer to the judgement of the Domestic Minister on whether that individual feels it is in the national interest to be buying workers or whether he can spare workers for sale. However, would (if Domestic Minister agrees) be willing to sell workers to reduce the monetary costs of techs.
adaMada: Seen trades where we've saved consider money by selling workers. Plans to request that we use them whenever there is a benefit to do so. Would also actively look to buy workers from other civs.
(issue requires President or Domestic Minister consultation)

Tech Purchases:
Arnelos: Willing to pay large sums for needed tech. Considers it critical to be able to research tech no-one else already has... willing to pay extra for techs that will get us toward that ability.
adaMada: A lot of these decisions will be case-by-case depending on the value of things at the time. Strongly believes in flexibility.

Resource/Luxury Sales:
Arnelos: Would like to consider supply and demand more. Considers selling a valuable commodity to a small civ for 4 GPT when it could have been sold to a larger one to reduce the price on a tech or for more money down the road to be a mistake. Would also consider denying key resources to some civs (such as potential military targets) valuable to do, even if we lose GPT income to do it.
adaMada: Thinks we should continue "to liberally trade" our excess luxuries and resources.
(FAM has exclusive authority)

GPT deals -vs- Cash Deals:
Arnelos: Generally prefers Cash to GPT, but would make GPT deal with a civ we're about to go to war with in order to skip on payment.
adaMada: Prefers cash to GPT deals. If we're just about to go to war with a civ, would consider GPT. But considers this risky because of possibility we actually won't end up at war with the civ. If going to war with a different Civ, GPT must clearly be avoided at all costs.

Issues Where It is Unclear if a Difference Exists

Institutional Transparency:
Arnelos: A campaign theme. Considers it his duty to post any plans made ahead of time for public scrutiny. Is a "stickler" for institutional transparency, meaning that the people know what the people running things are up to and why. Sites how he handled last turnchat's report as example.
adaMada: Did not comment on issue

Collaboration with Cabinet:
Arnelos: Considers it critical to consult with any elected official potentially impacted by a policy and, at the very least, obtain their opinion on the issue. Executive leadership style is "focused on consensus-building", in contrast to legislative leadership style
adaMada: Doesn't mention it specifically

Tech Sales:
Arnelos: Would like to establish unsellable technologies in the future (suggests Atomic Theory and Electronics as the top candidates), but unsure if this is possible. Would consider putting any military target on a list of civs not to sell ANY tech to (such as potentially the Zulus) until just before war (to empty their treasury).
adaMada: Doesn't address issue directly.

Issues Where No Substantial Difference Exists

Right of Passage Agreements:
Arnelos: Does not like RoPs. Would only sign one if an ally we NEED cannot reach the battlefront (highly unlikely), if a civilization halfway round the world would give us a significant cut on buying a tech for one.
adaMada: Was a proponent of the RoP with Persia and says he has learned by experience do refrain from RoPs. Willing to make exceptions for the Lost Civs or an ally in war.
(issue requires Presidential and SMC consultation)

Giving Away Cities:
Arnelos: Cannot ever see it happening, count on it not happening under his watch.
adaMada: Considers it useless.
(issue requires President or Senate consultation)

Mutual Protection Pacts:
Arnelos: Does not like them. Would only suggest to Senate if about to (1) Build U.N., (2) If about to incite a target to declare war on us and we want target's neighbor to be allied with us for sure (although singing military alliance after war starts would be less risky, it's also harder to accomplish), (3) If the SMC does a deplorable job and we need the protection (consider this to be near on to impossible)
adaMada: In general against them, thinks they involve an unecessary risk of being dragged into unwanted wars.
(issue requires Senate approval)

Time/Availability Issues
Arnelos: Currently taking college courses and very free for the foreseeable future.
adaMada: Would prioritze FAM over the Gazette if they came into conflict for needing time. However, does not believe they will be a problem because he only publishes the Gazette, while Meshelic does much of the editorial legwork. This is in contrast to Unorthox, who was both publisher AND editor.

Relations with the Zulus:
Arnelos: Luxuries for Enlightenment. What form that "enlightenment" will take is up to the Senate
adaMada: Would love to have better relations with Shaka, as long as he doesn't mind Thud landing our military there.

Worldmap Sales:
Arnelos: No more strategic value to maps (all land masses discovered), thus map is useful as monetary source alone. Would mapwhore to whatever extent we can. Would like to keep all civs having the same WM so that trades between AI civs become (slightly) less likely.
adaMada: (Although not addressed specifically, I assume Continue liberal sale of WM's)

Getting us out of Middle Age:
Arnelos: At the earliest possible date. Will spend what is necessary of available funds to get out of the Middle Ages and to a point where we can research something no-one else already has.
adaMada: Wants to buy ourselves out as soon as possible. A lot depends on the science slider vote.

Priority of Nationalism:
Arnelos: Would probably purchase it, but might use Medicine to reduce cost (IF we can get Medicine before everyone with Nationalism does). Considers Nationalism and Steam Engine to both be military necessities before our next war.
adaMada: An important tech. Willing to put a significant amount of money toward it as soon as possible.