Election: Domestic Minister (term 6) - Page 3

nz_upy · November 15, 2002, 00:32

Maybe a Poll on the issue with informed debate in the senate as opposed the court becoming involved.

Aggie · November 15, 2002, 00:47

Thats the beauty of it, its perfectly legal as is with the deputy system. It reminds me of the early days of the empire, when men where men, women were women, and green fury creatures from alpha centauri where green furry creatures from alpha centauri. Also as adamada pointed out it would make news hilarious.
Aggie

Togas · November 15, 2002, 01:19

Quote:

Originally posted by adaMada
Hmmm... Interesting excerpt. I think part seven was probably intended to deal with a tie after a runoff, but I'd have to talk to the other ConCon members to be sure -- I don't remember it being explicitly discussed (Togas, who authored the majority of the document, could probably shed more light into it than I could). Having said that, the matter would probably be in the hands of the court anyway, as we have potentially conflicting sections. Personally? I'd do a runoff before turning to the courts. You'll note that NewCon doesn't say that there must be three canidates or more for a runoff; just if neither gets more than 50% of the vote.

The way I view it is that if there's a tie, either now or after the run-off, the Court resolves the tie in any mannor they choose.

But that's just me. Regardless, the Court would handle a tie in one manor or the other.

Also, my opinion doesn't mean much at this point since I'm not the Court.

After the New Con was ratified, any issues that present themselves are for our beloved Justices to struggle over.

--Togas

Meshelic · November 15, 2002, 06:20

Rock-Paper-Scissors for it!

GhengisFarb™ · November 15, 2002, 09:02

If we're doing this we need to decide how its going to be split up and where the new capital will be.

Macross City? How quickly can we build a palace there?

Maybe we could assign adaMada and Arnelos to the two Empires also. Its a shame we couldn't actually split them up cause it would be cool if there was a UN vote with our two halves as the choices.

Imagine if the Eastern Empire goes to war with England and the Western Empire goes to war with Greece.....

Aggie · November 15, 2002, 11:22

Actually, we could do that Ghengis in some way. The east and western halves could produce forces dedicated to attacking england and greece respectively. Then they could declare war and have a simultanious attack. Then the forces could unite for a combined attack on germany from the sw and e respectively. We could even make alliance with the aztecs and russians and romans since in such a war we would be fighting for over 20 turns. We could call such a war "operation 1 into 2 back into 1" or something about dividing then conquring and then recombining. Actually the name I was thinking of has potentially bannable conotations so I can't use it.

Aggie

E_T · November 15, 2002, 13:16

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
If we're doing this we need to decide how its going to be split up and where the new capital will be.

Macross City? How quickly can we build a palace there?

Maybe we could assign adaMada and Arnelos to the two Empires also. Its a shame we couldn't actually split them up cause it would be cool if there was a UN vote with our two halves as the choices.

Imagine if the Eastern Empire goes to war with England and the Western Empire goes to war with Greece.....

In about 50 some od turns, with current infrastructure (needs more mines to shorten).

E_T

E_T · November 15, 2002, 13:21

Now I'm on the right day....

It's about 6 hours until the Polls close

Make your vote

E_T

E_T · November 15, 2002, 13:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Aggie
. We could call such a war "operation 1 into 2 back into 1" or something about dividing then conquring and then recombining. Actually the name I was thinking of has potentially bannable conotations so I can't use it.

Aggie

You have to tell me what the name is, either through PM or during turnchat today.......sounds like a possible ROLDWL!

E_T

Arnelos · November 15, 2002, 15:25

Splitting the empire in two does not sound like an appealing idea to me (joking aside

). If it really looked like the empire was going to be SPLIT as a way to resolve a tie, I'd count on at least one of the candidates "withdrawing from the race" so that the candidates could work out a mutually acceptable better option.

As E_T said (my own joking aside

), I don't think any true Apolytonian patriot would like to see the empire split in two or us to lose

E_T · November 15, 2002, 15:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos
Splitting the empire in two does not sound like an appealing idea to me (joking aside

). If it really looked like the empire was going to be SPLIT as a way to resolve a tie, I'd count on at least one of the candidates "withdrawing from the race" so that the candidates could work out a mutually acceptable better option.

As E_T said (my own joking aside

), I don't think any true Apolytonian patriot would like to see the empire split in two or us to lose

About 3 hours 15 munutes unti the polls close. This is almost as bad as some of the past 'real' Presidential races (Dewey vs. Truman for one).

Hmmmm, maybe the Gazette could publish a piece that shows the other canidate winning and the actual winner would get to quote it and make fun of it. Just an Idea.

E_T

joncnunn · November 15, 2002, 16:45

Hum, if the empire is split in two, it could be done where one of the candidates gets the Palace centric cities and the other gets the Forbiden Palace centric cities.

GhengisFarb™ · November 15, 2002, 18:16

One hour and 10 minutes left, somebody vote.........

GhengisFarb™ · November 15, 2002, 19:50

In order to avoid controversy and to prevent the game from halting for the court to make a decision I am hereby following Arnelos' suggestion and withdrawing as a candidate from this election.

To all those who voted for me, I would like to express my appreciation for your support and hope you will support the elective government in the next term.

I wish the citizens and government of Apolytonia all the best wishes and hope to see you all again in the MultiSite Democracy game.

-GhengisFarb

Thud · November 15, 2002, 19:50

The poll is over. There was a tie. I am truly shocked, though pleased that these forums are safe for democracy.

It's the court's show now. Also the President's, as he must appoint a temporary minister.

GodKing · November 15, 2002, 20:24

GF... wait one, please. Lets just work this out with the courts.

E_T · November 15, 2002, 20:26

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
In order to avoid controversy and to prevent the game from halting for the court to make a decision I am hereby following Arnelos' suggestion and withdrawing as a candidate from this election.

To all those who voted for me, I would like to express my appreciation for your support and hope you will support the elective government in the next term.

I wish the citizens and government of Apolytonia all the best wishes and hope to see you all again in the MultiSite Democracy game.

-GhengisFarb

I am speachless with this news.

E_T

Aro · November 15, 2002, 20:48

Wait, Ghengis, the court IS for this kind of matter! I'm sure that E_T will be a great minister, but let the court decide... All those legal procedures, the comments, the discussion, the gossips... This will be fun!

mrmitchell · November 15, 2002, 20:59

Wow.

Me cannot believe this

GhengisFarb™ · November 15, 2002, 21:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Aro
Wait, Ghengis, the court IS for this kind of matter! I'm sure that E_T will be a great minister, but let the court decide... All those legal procedures, the comments, the discussion, the gossips... This will be fun!

That is exactly what I want to avoid, many people do not realize how much work and time the judges have to put in for every case. It could take them 70 to 100 hours of real time to discuss and debate what to do and then they would still upset several people.

I had proposed splitting sections and allowing each candidate to manage a specific area and if I had won I think that would have worked well. But key participants in that concept did not like the idea and would not support it and I did not win, so the decision was not mine to make.

I firmly believe this path will allow the game to continue in the smoothest fashion. I wish either E_T or I had actually won so as I wouldn't have been put in this postion (I suspect many members will accuse me of quitting and worse) but this was the result and this is my decision.

GodKing · November 15, 2002, 22:53

GF, I urge you to reconsider. I think this is something the courts should look at. I am not conserned with the position. Both of you can and will do an excelent job here.

We have had many cases where there was "almost a tie"... trip vs ninot is the best known one. This time, it actually is a tie. with all the controversey that has occurred in the past regarding this type of issue, I think that procedures need to be established.

No mater the outcome, you cannot please everybody. Nobody can. That should not be a concern.

In terms of the game, it will continue. By your leave, either ET can take over until the courts decide, or Aggie can name a temp person. He mentioned in the chat that he would ask me, and if so I would have no problem doing it for a couple of chats (about 1 week or so I would guess is about all that should be necessary.) Therefore, halting the game, or even slowing it down, is not a concern.

GF. Just so you know, my vote is not what counts here. I would gladly change it to resolve this had I known it would happen like this. I think like aro does that this will be fun for us. Also, I think this is an issue that has occurred to often, and a procedure needs to be established once and for all.

Your graciousness in this matter is understood and appreciated. But because of the above I hope you reconsider. If not, I am sure that all will understand that you do what you do because you feel it is the correct thing. Thanks.

GodKing

notyoueither · November 15, 2002, 23:03

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb

That is exactly what I want to avoid, many people do not realize how much work and time the judges have to put in for every case. It could take them 70 to 100 hours of real time to discuss and debate what to do and then they would still upset several people.

I had proposed splitting sections and allowing each candidate to manage a specific area and if I had won I think that would have worked well. But key participants in that concept did not like the idea and would not support it and I did not win, so the decision was not mine to make.

I firmly believe this path will allow the game to continue in the smoothest fashion. I wish either E_T or I had actually won so as I wouldn't have been put in this postion (I suspect many members will accuse me of quitting and worse) but this was the result and this is my decision.

Please wait. The court will be considering the issues of this election ASAP. It will not require a long hearing AFAIK.

Thank you

notyoueither · November 15, 2002, 23:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Aro
Wait, Ghengis, the court IS for this kind of matter! I'm sure that E_T will be a great minister, but let the court decide... All those legal procedures, the comments, the discussion, the gossips... This will be fun!

This will be (would have been?) short. At the very least we can tell people what process we would have followed in this case.

E_T · November 16, 2002, 01:41

I'm willing to let the courts decide

E_T

notyoueither · November 16, 2002, 01:44

Thank you E_T. Very much.

We are examining the issue.

kring · November 16, 2002, 02:44

notyoueither and kring, members of the Supreme Court, have issued an injunction (per Article III.4 of the Constitution), staying any results, until the Court has examined the issues and the voters list.

Arnelos · November 16, 2002, 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by kring
notyoueither and kring, members of the Supreme Court, have issued an injunction (per Article III.4 of the Constitution), staying any results, until the Court has examined the issues and the voters list.

A recount!

GhengisFarb™ · November 16, 2002, 03:14

If the courts wish to develop a system for ties, then so be it, but I am perfectly willing to stand aside. I stated I would do so and stand by that statement.

A concern I have is that there were some fairly negative statements made about E_T and I don't want this to cause anybody to get banned or sanctioned which is another reason I am willing to stand down.

E_T is a major contributor to this Demo game and I don't want anything to drive him away either.

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos
A recount!

This is why I withdrew.

E_T · November 16, 2002, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Arnelos

A recount!

Is that a CHAD in your hand???? Was it hanging?

E_T

E_T · November 16, 2002, 05:38

Quote:

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
A concern I have is that there were some fairly negative statements made about E_T and I don't want this to cause anybody to get banned or sanctioned which is another reason I am willing to stand down.

I can handle them, I've had MUCH worse thrown at me in the past. They are just words, although they can hurt, they do no physical damage (though I sometimes want to STRANGLE people sometimes

, I calm down and find my center and focus again soon

)

Quote:

E_T is a major contributor to this Demo game and I don't want anything to drive him away either.

Thanks, I appreciate that. Especially after what happened at the end of last term. I don't think I'm going anywhere yet (unless my DP takes a sledhammer to my computer that is because I spend TOO much time at this game).

As for what some others have said about me, I am very serious about getting help with this position (if it does go to me). THe CP job by itself is getting too much as it is, and the new con has added more for one person to have to do.

In the past, if something happed to keep us from doing our jobs, your Workers could be moved by Pres and I had the Q's to work from, so it wasn't a big deal. If it happens with the new con rules, all hell would break loose and things could get really ugly fast.

It's late and I'm going to bed. Hopefully, this will be resolved shortly.

E_T