How close is the US to becoming a totalitarian state?

Nubclear · November 15, 2002, 04:10

I posted a similar poll a few (months) ago and in light of recent threads, thought I'd post another one....

Robert Plomp · November 15, 2002, 04:24

as far as Iraque is from being a democratic state.

Mr. President · November 15, 2002, 05:09

All states are only a certain number of suicide bombings away from dictatorship.

Pandemoniak · November 15, 2002, 05:37

When elections are decided not by the total amount of votes but by circonsription and the winner takes it all even if he has less votes, thats quite confusing.
When the persons who commited small crimes are forbid to vote while people who commited more important crimes are able (Mr. Jeb Bush's wife was able to vote, sentenced to pay a fine for illegal import of jewelry for $29,000 though),
When the people of Florida who commited crimes in another state and therfore cannot be under the Florida law that prevent them from voting (list of such persons transmitted by kind permission of Mr. George W. Bush ),
When advantage of votes starts at #4000 and decrease at each recount, and is stopped by the Supreme Court (thanx to M. George Sr. Bush stepbrother),
When the victory is not sure but claimed by Fox News (President of Fox News : Mr. George W. Bush's cousin) and every channel followed for the hunt of breaking news,
When people up to five days after the end of the elections,
When people can vote twice,
When people can vote three times,
this is not totalitarism. This is Napoleonism.

and when people re-vote confidence two years after that, thats simply stupidity

Robert Plomp · November 15, 2002, 06:34

every fool can produce such a list in no-time.
It's mostly true though that only fools who disagree with the outcome of the elections do it.

it's a pitty that you do not post the counter-arguments, while you must know them.

If you don't know the counter-arguments you are such a fool, and not an exception to the rule I wrote above.
If you do know the rules, you're not a fool, but you are very evil.

Tell me what you are, evil or a fool?
And yes, I am evil

FrantzX · November 15, 2002, 10:16

History has shown that whenever the **** hits the fan, America becomes more totalitarian only to return to normal when the danger passes. For example, both Lincoln and FDR where near despots during the Civil War and WW2 and yet they are both regarded as our some of our greatest presidents.

DinoDoc · November 15, 2002, 10:17

You really need to let your rage over the previous election go. It's becoming quite sad.

Sava · November 15, 2002, 10:32

One party controls the entire country... that is totalitarian. zig hei!

Stefu · November 15, 2002, 10:54

Quote:

One party controls the entire country... that is totalitarian. zig hei!

Is Sweden totalitarian?

DinoDoc · November 15, 2002, 10:55

Yes! Finland must invade to bring democracy back to the country!

Pandemoniak · November 15, 2002, 11:24

Quote:

every fool can produce such a list in no-time.
It's mostly true though that only fools who disagree with the outcome of the elections do it.
it's a pitty that you do not post the counter-arguments, while you must know them.
If you don't know the counter-arguments you are such a fool, and not an exception to the rule I wrote above.
If you do know the rules, you're not a fool, but you are very evil.

Tell me what you are, evil or a fool?
And yes, I am evil

According to you, I guess I'm an evil fool.

I dont know any proper counter argument, though I'd be intersted to hear them. And I havent just made list : I put a list that shows one thing : people did vote, and the votes of these people hasnt be heard and applied.
When people vote and government elected is not representative of what the people wanted, I call that undemocratic. When all the powers of a single corporated family takes all the power, I call that totalitarism. I dont think I'm really wrong about that, though it could have been ein Fuhrer, a party, an emperor or whatever. The fact remains : Mr. George W. Budh has not been elected president, he's an usurper who took control of the USA with the whole support of his family !
England sent Napoleon to Ste Hélène, you should send Bush to Guantanamo !
So you american democracy-lovers, go and do your first revolution !

DinoDoc · November 15, 2002, 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Mr. George W. Budh has not been elected president, he's an usurper who took control of the USA with the whole support of his family !

He was elected. Get over it.

Chris 62 · November 15, 2002, 11:32

If democrats controlled both houses, and one were president, would you post such a poll?

Kontiki · November 15, 2002, 11:40

Is the US really any more of a totalitarian state now than it was before? Not to get into any US bashing, but the mythical degrees of freedom and democracy have always been just that - mythical. And the US is hardly the only country like that. Hell, most western states are far more totalitarian than we'd like to believe.

Pandemoniak · November 15, 2002, 12:11

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
He was elected. Get over it.

Or so you've been told.

DinoDoc · November 15, 2002, 12:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Or so you've been told.

Le Pen's party was the rightful winner of your last election. It's only been a horrible conspiracy by Chirac that has kept him from claiming his rightful post. It's time for another revolution to restore democracy in your country!

The Andy-Man · November 15, 2002, 12:31

The whole democratic ideal is a joke. In reality it is a more subtle form of totalatarianism.

Zkribbler · November 15, 2002, 12:46

The U.S. is moving closer all the time.

I reported during the 2000 Democratic National Convension in L.A. how there were police helicopters constantly hovering over downtown L.A. during daylight hours, how police sirens were going off every 15 minutes (and you knew there was not an emergency every 15 minutes) and how there were police on virtually every street corner.

No dissent of any kind was tolerated. At demonstrations, people with cameras who were not even participating were targetted to be shot with rubber bullets. And more than one peaceful demonstration was broken up.

The FBI has been using "carnivore" to routinely search e-mails without a warrant.

Since 9-11, the governments been given broad new powers to conduct phone taps with no probable cause.

With the Washington snipers, the miliary began running spy planes over Maryland, which was keeping everyday citizens under survaillence.

In regards to Iraq, Congress unconstitutionally passed its power to declare war to the President.

The trend is clear. If Americans feel their security is threatened, they will jettison their freedoms faster than a sinking ship will jettison ballast.

DinoDoc · November 15, 2002, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Zkribbler
With the Washington snipers, the miliary began running spy planes over Maryland, which was keeping everyday citizens under survaillence.

I don't really see how this can be seen as a violation of Posse Comitatus or a violation of Constitutional provisions.

Quote:

In regards to Iraq, Congress unconstitutionally passed its power to declare war to the President.

How so?

The Andy-Man · November 15, 2002, 12:56

[quote]I don't really see how this can be seen as a violation of Posse Comitatus or a violation of Constitutional provisions.[/quote

It isn't, but it sets a trend, I mean, why not put every citizen in the UA under constant survalence a la 1984? That way its a garantee you will catch criminals.

DanS · November 15, 2002, 13:20

What a frickin' joke. Totalitarian states cost too damn much money. We will never have one.

Imran Siddiqui · November 15, 2002, 13:30

Exactly Dan, a big joke.

I wonder who are these loser who say the US is totalitarian. Just goes to prove anti-Americanism will say or do anything.

TheBirdMan · November 15, 2002, 15:37

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Yes! Finland must invade to bring democracy back to the country!

As long as you stay north of Stockholm, then it is ok.

But we still wants our old provinses back: Skåne, Halland and Blekinge (well, let Blekinge go if it can't be different

).

If it is going to be part of a greater deal, most danish are ready to give the Faroe islands away for free. Anybody interessted?

chequita guevara · November 15, 2002, 15:46

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
What a frickin' joke. Totalitarian states cost too damn much money. We will never have one.

So they'll privatize it.

They've been increasing police budgets forever while decreasing social services. Furthermore, the drug war is self-financing. Police departments can auction off anything they seize, and since property has no rights, they can simply charge your property and leave you with nothing and no recourse to the courts. They can also sell the services of prisoners.

The Andy-Man · November 15, 2002, 16:21

Quote:

So they'll privatize it.

Nubclear · November 15, 2002, 17:40

Quote:

You really need to let your rage over the previous election go. It's becoming quite sad.

DinoDoc, I do believe your intelligent enough to know the difference about when I'm complaining about the election and when I'm not. However, if your not....simply inform me and I will lower my expectations.

Quote:

If democrats controlled both houses, and one were president, would you post such a poll?

If they were threatening to take civil liberties away, yep. Definately.

Lord Merciless · November 15, 2002, 17:53

America is far less totalitarian than Russia. Russia will get there long before us.

Nubclear · November 15, 2002, 18:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
America is far less totalitarian than Russia. Russia will get there long before us.

For the most part, I agree with you (Unfortunately). But Russia (and any other country for that matter) is irrelevant to the subject at hand.

Happy?

Ogie Oglethorpe · November 15, 2002, 18:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000

But Russia (and any other country for that matter) is irrelevant.

So you agree with Bush's comments to the UN do you?

Nubclear · November 15, 2002, 18:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

So you agree with Bush's comments to the UN do you?

Happy?