Expanded city, leader lists for PTW

[Purple]

Sorry to disappoint those who thought I would provide the lists here.

Actually, I'm asking you to help expand (and correct, if necessary) the default lists of cities and leaders for the PTW civs. This thread could be a clearing house for suggestions.

[Alfonso]

España (Spain):

Madrid
Barcelona
Valencia
Sevilla
Zaragoza
Toledo
Bilbao
Salamanca
Córdoba
Santiago de Compostela
Vitoria
Alicante
Valladolid
San Sebastián
Granada
Santander
León
Vigo
Jaén
Albacete
Oviedo
Mallorca
Murcia
Ourense
Teruel
Pamplona
Málaga
Segovia
Huelva
Burgos
Lugo
Guadalajara
Girona
Castellón
Cádiz
Ávila
Huesca
Logroño
Lleida
Ciudad Real
Tarragona
Soria
Almería
Cáceres
Zamora
Cuenca
Palencia
Badajoz
Gran Canaria
Tenerife
Ceuta
Melilla
A Coruña
Alcalá de Henares
Sagunto
Tordesillas
Cartagena
Gijón
Cazorla
Almansa
Calatayud
Irún
Amposta
Mérida
Palos de la Frontera
Aranda de Duero
Elche
Avilés
Talavera de la Reina
Sant Cugat del Vallés
Dos Hermanas
Baracaldo
Aranjuez
Terrassa
Alcoy
Algeciras
Xátiva
Bailén
Ponferrada
Pontevedra
Reus
Jerez de la Frontera
Écija

[Alfonso]

In PTW it appears a called city Asturias, that city it does not exist, it is a province.

[Purple]

Mil gracias, Alfonso!

Are you satisfied with the default list of Spanish Great Leaders?

[Alfonso]

Originally posted by Purple
Mil gracias, Alfonso!

It does not have importance, Purple.

Originally posted by Purple
Are you satisfied with the default list of Spanish Great Leaders?

No, I am not nothing in agreement with the list of Spanish leaders in PTW.

I propose:

Viriato
El Cid Campeador
Jaume I el Conqueridor
Critóbal Colón
Hernán Cortés
Pizarro
Fernando de Magallanes
Juan Sebastián Elcano
El Gran Capitán
El Duque de Alba

[Alfonso]

I have left one: Agustina de Aragón

This is the final list:

Viriato
El Cid Campeador
Jaume I el Conqueridor
Cristóbal Colón
Hernán Cortés
Pizarro
Fernando de Magallanes
Juan Sebastián Elcano
El Gran Capitán
El Duque de Alba
Agustina de Aragón

[Purple]

Thanks again, Alfonso.

I'm curious about your reasons for replacing

Cordoba
Bartolome
Zuniga
Olivares
Zumalacarregui

Would you mind explaining to the rest of us who don't know very much about Spanish history?

[jasev]

Córdoba is the same as El Gran Capitán (Gonzalo fernández de Córdoba)
Olivares was a polititian (see J.H. Elliot: The Count-Duke of Olivares), not a general or so.
Bartolome de Las Casas was a religious who defended the natives in the spanish court, so it's not very logic to have him as a military leader.
I think Zumalacárregui deserves to be one of the Spanish Leaders (see my Carlist War civ2 scenario for details ), but maybe there are better options.

And nobody really knows who's that "Zuniga" (In fact, Zúñiga). Zúñiga is a very old and honorable name in spanish history, and there are many possibilities:
Baltasar de Zúñiga y Acevedo: Ambassador of Philip III in France, The Netherlands and the German Empire. Later Prime Minister with Philip IV.
Baltasar de Zúñiga y Guzmán: Viceroy of Navarre and Sardegna. He fought for Philip V during the spanish succession war; when Philip V won the war, he became viceroy of New Spain; during his rule, the spanish colonized Texas.
Luis de Requesens y Zúñiga. One of the best generals of Philip II, he fought against moors in Granada (see J. Muñoz Civ2 scenario about Alpujarras ), against turks in Lepanto and against protestants in the Netherlands. He tried to achieve the peace with protestants but failed and was replaced.

Alfonso's suggestions:

Viriato: Lusitan (portuguese) warrior who fought against roman invaders.

El Cid Campeador: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar. The spanish medieval hero. He's for spanish the same as Roland for french or Arthur for english.

Jaume I el Conqueridor: King of Aragon and Count of Barcelona, he conquered the moorish Kingdoms of Valencia and Mallorca.

Cristóbal Colón
{Hernán Cortés
Pizarro
Fernando de Magallanes}
I think there is no need of an explanation here.

Juan Sebastián Elcano: The second at command of Magallanes, he completed the voyage when Magallanes died.

El Gran Capitán: Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba, the best spanish general in living history. He defeated moors, italians, french, and everybody who fought against him.

El Duque de Alba (i.e, the Duke of Alba): A great general, an awful politic. He's responsible of the "black legend" of Spain in the Low Countries.

Agustina de Aragón: She is the spanish heroine of the peninsular war. She was the widow of an artillery officer who used cannons to fight against napoleonic troops.

[Alfonso]

Great work, jasev.

For that they do not know it, Jasev is one of the wisest historians of Spanish Civilization Site.

[Purple]

I found another list of Spanish cities that had the following ones that were not on your list, Alfonso. Do you think any of these deserve to be added:

Ibiza
Totosa
Igualada
San Roque
Las Matas
Mojacar
Montellano
Pasajes
El Campello
Villaviciosa
Montefrio
Medina del Campo
Segovia
Palma
Castellon de la Plana (same as Castellón?)
Mahon
La Coruna (same as A Coruña?)

Sorry for the lack of accent marks on this list; the source did not have them, and I didn't try to check).

[Alfonso]

Ibiza: It is appropriate to include it in the list.
Totosa: Tortosa: I do not consider good contribution
Igualada: I do not consider good contribution
San Roque: I do not consider good contribution
Las Matas: I do not consider good contribution
Mojacar: I do not consider good contribution
Montellano: I do not consider good contribution
Pasajes: I do not consider good contribution
El Campello: I do not consider good contribution
Villaviciosa: I do not consider good contribution
Montefrio: I do not consider good contribution
Medina del Campo: I do not consider good contribution
Segovia: it is in the list
Palma: Is Mallorca or Palma de Mallorca
Castellon de la Plana (same as Castellón?) Yes
Mahón: Mahón: I do not consider good contribution
La Coruna (same as A Coruña?) Yes

[Purple]

Thanks for your comments, Alfonso. I'll add Ibiza only to my Spanish list.

You may have already noticed that Bonaparte just posted a new thread "Cities, cities, and more cities" in the Civ III General forum. He attached files of city names for all the old and new civs (zipped together). The Spanish list has 194 names (and it's not the longest one). I haven't looked at it closely yet, but it probably has many that you wouldn't consider proper additions (it retains Asturias, for example). However, it might be worth checking out.

[Alfonso]

The list of Bonaparte has many errors. Asturias does not exist, is not no city.

[Pinochet]

How do you actually modify the default list of cities?

[Purple]

Use the editor (Civ3XEdit.exe) located in the CIV3PTW folder. It is specifically for editing .bix files.

First of all, make a backup of the civ3X.bix file.

Then open the civ3X.bix file.

On the Civilizations tab you select the civ you want to modify and you'll see a box with cities and one with leaders. You can edit these lists, cut and paste works.

Some prefer to give the newly modded file a new name and treat it like a scenario, leaving the original file intact.

Be warned that games played with a modded .bix file will not be recorded automatically in the Hall of Fame (you can add them manually). This applies to even trivial changes like placename changes or additions.

If you don't have PTW, you can use the editor in the main Civilization III folder.

[FNBrown]

Are you posting lists for any other Civs?

[Purple]

I was hoping for input from knowlegeable people (you are out there, aren't you?).

Here's a list for Scandinavian cities. Sorry, but I don't know the compiler (does the author recognize it?). I do not assert that it's better than the default list, but it's longer, at least.

Trondheim
Uppsala
Oslo
Reykjavik
Göteborg
Birka
Roskilde
Odense
Bergen
Linköping
Ribe
Sigtuna
Lejre
Jellinge
Haithabu
Lund
Jorvik
Tonsberg
Kalmar
Visby
Brattahlid
Gardar
Hvarf
Falun
Torshavn
Kvivik
Sandur
Sandavagur
Jarlshof
Veigsfjordur
Vikingalo
Hlymrekur
Dyflinn
Kaupang
Stockholm
København
Jarrow
Knared
Helsingør
Thingvollur
Maeshowe
Thingvellir
Vedrafjord
Fyrkat
Kjönugard
Holmgard
Jomsborg
Nonnebakken
Lade
Borg
L'Anse-aux-Meadows

The following even longer list was compiled by Calgacus (posted in this thread on CivFanatics):

Trondheim
Hladir
Kaupang
Uppsala
Roskilde
Stockholm
Goteborg
Malmo
Vasteras
Odense
Aarhus
Viborg
Norrkoping
Linkoping
Orebro
Jonkoping
Hedeby
Linkoping
Jarlshof
Udal
Alesund
Koping
Tampere
Sigtuna
Lunde
Ravning Enge
Skara
Harstad
Hammerfest
Birka
Jorvik
Westness
Jarrow
Helsingborg
Karlstad
Umea
Lulea
Kiruna
Kalmar
Karlskrona
Ronneby
Solvesborg
Groenbjerg
Nykoping
Brumunddal
Vordingborg
Ringerike
Tune
Askerkarr
Paviken
Kristianstad
Trelleborg
Ystad
Vanern
Vaxjo
Varberg
Eskilstuna
Morrum
Koping
Enkoping
Gronkoping
Kramfors
Ostersund
Skuldelev
Ladby
Larne
Nyborg
Holmgard
Nonnebakken
Thwaite
Askrigg
Trelleborg
Risby
Vorbasse
Fyrkat
Kvivik
Aldeigjuborg

Comments?

[Purple]

Also, Bonaparte has posted a file "all cities" containing lists for all 24 civs. It is in this thread here on Apolyton.

It is the source of the very long list of Spanish cities in the latest post on that subject in the current thread, but aside from Ibiza, Alfonso doesn't think the added cities are worth including, and I respect his opinion on this subject. I haven't had time to examine the other civs in Bonaparte's list, but it includes the following Scandinavian cities:

Trondheim
Bergen
Copenhagen
Reykjavik
Oslo
Stockholm
Birka
Aarhus
Stavanger
Odense
Hareid
Molde
Ålesund
Bodø
Karasjok
Tromsø
Vadsø
Farsund
Risor
Fauske
Karistad
Batsfjord
Hammerfest
Honningsvåg
Svölvær
Haugesund
Sarpsborg
Lillehammer
Elverurn
Falun
Helsinki
Keflavik
Thunderfall
Viborg
Mære
Lade
Øreting
Vang
Oseberg
Tune
Gokstad
Harfrsfjord
Furness
Holar
Ølgod
Hjardarholt
Borg
Thingvellir
Althing
Reykjanes
Skålholt
Sudrøyene
Stamford
Jellinge
Heidaby
Borgundarholm
Gotland
Uppsala
Holmgard
Jomsborg
Miklagard
Tønsberg
Alta
Harstad
Sandnessjøen
Mosjøen
Namsos
Steinkjer
Florø
Mo
Narvik
Andalsnes
Gudvangén
Kristiansand
Växjö
Jönköping
Vänersborg
Kristianstad
Marlestad
Örebro
Kariskrona
Visby
Nyköping
Gävle
Hudiksvall
Ange
Östersund
Umea
Storuman
Luleå
Jokkmokk
Kiruna
Mo i Rana
Gjermundbu
Spangereid
Stovagen
Ringeriki
Veien
Løgstør
Hjørring
Nykøbing
Ringkøbing
Næstved
Vordingborg
Brønderslev
Neksø
Køge
Hillerød
Tilst
Båtsford
Hafnarfjördhur
Isafjördhur
Thôrshöfn
Höfn
Bolungavik
Blönduós
Akureyri
Vopnafjördhur
Hvammstangi
Kópavogur
Grunderfjördhur
Eyrarbakki
Måløy
Kongsvinger
Drammer
Evje
Finnsness
Skien
Flekkefjord
Nordfold
Malmö
Lycksele
Strömsund
Ólafsvik

[gnome]

I have my own list that I have compiled into a 1.14 bix file here:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=69576

The next time I get a chance I will most likely incorporate Bonaparte's city list into it for the Koreans, as that still has not been expanded in my version.

[Purple]

gnome, I think you are the source for the uncredited Scandinavian cities I posted above. I remember downloading your .bix and finding the Korean cities unchanged.

I apologize for not remembering earlier.

Another source for Korean cities might be the Apolyton Extra Pack. I haven't downloaded the package (it's about 40 MB, IIRC), but someone who has might post those cities. I posted a request in one of the Korea threads in the Civilizations forum, but so far no one has replied.

[gnome]

No apology necessary, my list is the Calgacus list.

[Quasar1011]

IMHO, the city list for America that came with the game deserves a lot of work. Firstly, the major cities of Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Houston and San Antonio are not on the list at all. Some historically significant towns like Hartford, Providence, Savannah and Charleston ought to be high on the list too. Miami, Seattle and Denver all appear higher on the list than they ought to. And you can't build a Birmingham if the English have beat you to it.

[Purple]

Originally posted by Quasar1011
IMHO, the city list for America that came with the game deserves a lot of work. Firstly, the major cities of Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Houston and San Antonio are not on the list at all. Some historically significant towns like Hartford, Providence, Savannah and Charleston ought to be high on the list too. Miami, Seattle and Denver all appear higher on the list than they ought to. And you can't build a Birmingham if the English have beat you to it.

Yes, I've made a lot of changes to the American list. I hadn't thought about the Birmingham duplication, though. How does it work? I thought I read somewhere that duplicate names (in different civs) are allowed.

Here's my personal American list (50 cities, not including Birmingham):

Washington
New York
Boston
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Chicago
Seattle
San Francisco
Miami
Houston
St. Louis
Detroit
New Orleans
Baltimore
San Antonio
Denver
Cincinnati
Dallas
Memphis
Los Angeles
Ft.Worth
Cleveland
Kansas City
San Diego
Buffalo
Richmond
Austin
Las Vegas
Phoenix
Albuquerque
Portland
Minneapolis
Pittsburgh
Oakland
Tampa Bay
Orlando
Tacoma
Santa Fe
Olympia
Springfield
Palo Alto
Spokane
Providence
Montpelier
Des Moines
Jacksonville
Tallahassee
Albany
Rochester
Columbus

Here's Bonaparte's American list (112 cities, also omits Birmingham):

Washington
New York
Boston
Philadelphia
Jamestown
Los Angeles
Atlanta
Chicago
San Francisco
Houston
St. Louis
Jacksonville
Detroit
New Orleans
Salt Lake City
Baltimore
Denver
Dallas
Miami
Kansas City
Cleveland
San Diego
Richmond
Nashville
Sacramento
Santa Fe
Las Vegas
Phoenix
Seattle
Indianapolis
Memphis
Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Portland
Cincinnati
Orlando
Tucson
Albuquerque
Colorado Springs
Hartford
Syracuse
Columbus
Norfolk
Albany
Oakland
Milwaukee
Austin
St. Paul
Oklahoma City
Baton Rouge
El Paso
Minneapolis
Des Moines
Springfield
Spokane
Newark
Fresno
Fort Worth
Tampa
Boise
Berkley
Grand Rapids
Carson City
Tacoma
Cheyenne
Helena
Omaha
Dayton
Raleigh
Columbia
San Antonio
Madison
Lincoln
Topeka
Lexington
Knocksville
Savannah
Jefferson City
Little Rock
Charlotte
Worcester
Honolulu
Tulsa
Louisville
Corpus Christi
Wichita
Lansing
Salem
Erie
Jersey City
Jackson
Winston Salem
Fort Lauderdale
Huntsville
Montgomery
Rochester
Tallahassee
Bismarck
Mobile
Augusta
Frankfort
Lexington
Annapolis
Concord
Fargo
Charleston
Georgetown
Dover
Trenton
Eugene
Key West
Pierre

[Yurt]

Here is a Mongols list that I made.

Karakorum
Samarkand
Neyshabur
Ta-Tu
Kazan
Almarikh
Tabriz
Ulaanbaatar
Hovd
Darhan
Dalandzadgad
Mandalgovi
Choybalsan
Erdenet
Tsetserleg
Baruun-Urt
Dzamïn Uüd
Ereen
Batshireet
Choyr
Ulaangom
Tosontsengel
Altay
Uliastay
Bayanhongor
Har-Ayrag
Nalayh
Tes
Hutag
Arvayheer
Öndörhaan
Saynshand
Tumentsogt
Bokhara
Kashi
Kabul
Ormuz
Khanbalyk
Khorasan
Shangtu
Tsagaannuur
Halban
Mörön
Bulgan
Chadaasan
Dzuunmod
Javarthushuu
Jargalant
Tamsagbulag
Ihbulag
Hövüün
Hujirt
Chadaasan

[Dimension]

Purple:

There are 33 states with cities named Springfield, and I don't really see how any of them are that significant.

Springfield, Illinois = population of 115,000
Springfield, Massachusetts = population 165,000
Springfield, Missouri = population 150,000
Springfield, Ohio = population 75,000

I don't think any of them were even founded until the early 1800's. It just seems a little odd to put Springfield on the 50-city list when there isn't even a city named Springfield that stands out enough to make it clear what you're talking about.

I suppose it's worth putting in just for fans of The Simpsons

Anyway, I certainly don't see any need to have over 100 cities, but let me give some data to help you refine the list a little.

Here are the cities in the top 30 by population that didn't make it on your 50-city list:

Charlotte (#26 - pop 541,000 - settled 1750)
El Paso (#23 - pop 564,000 - claimed 1598)
Fort Worth (#27 - pop 535,000 - founded 1849)
Indianapolis (#12 - pop 782,000 - settled 1820)
Milwaukee (#19 - pop 597,000 - settled 1795)
Nashville (#22 - pop 546,000 - founded 1779)
San Jose (#11 - pop 895,000 - founded 1777)
Tuscon (#30 - pop 487,000 - prehistoric, as old as 300 B.C.)

Phoenix was also founded on the ruins of a prehistoric city.

Jacksonville FL (more than twice the size of Miami) and Columbus OH are the 14th & 15th largest cities, and they show up near the end of the list. You might not want to bump them off if you're trying to keep it down to 50 cities.

Officially, the five oldest cities in the US are:

St Augustine FL (1565)
Santa Fe NM (1609)
Hampton VA (1610)
Newport News VA (1610)
Albany NY (1624)

I'm not sure why those are considered the oldest cities, because it's obviously not giving any credit to many settlements that later became cities.

I'm thinking of making my own list with some of the historical names, like:
Atlanta = Terminus (1837), renamed Marthasville (1843)
Austin = Waterloo (1838)
Chicago = Fort Dearborn (although it was razed in 1812 by the Ottawa and mostly vacant until 1830)
Cleveland = Connecticut Western Reserve (1662)
Columbus = Franklinton (1797)
Denver = Cherry Creek (1858)
El Paso = Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe (1659), Ysleta (1682)
Kansas City MO = Westport Landing (1833)
Los Angeles = Reina de Los Angeles (1781)
Memphis = Chisca (founded by the Chickasaw, pre-1500)
Nashville = Fort Nashborough
New York = New Amsterdam (1614)
San Diego = San Miguel (1542)
San Francisco = Yerba Buena ("Good Herb" 1777)

And what about all the cool cities? Pennsylvania and Alabama both have cities named Intercourse, and 17 states have cities named Climax.

BTW, Bonaparte spelled Knoxville wrong...

[Purple]

Thanks, Yurt. Your's is the longest I've seen (53 cities?). For comparison, here is TimScen's list of (50) Mongolian cities:

Karakorum
Samarkand
Ta-Tu
Bokhara
Kazan
Nishapur
Almarikh
Kashgar
Tabriz
Merv
Ulaanbaatar
Aleppo
Hovd
Kabul
Darhan
Ormuz
Basra
Mandalgovi
Khanbalyk
Khorasan
Erdenet
Shangtu
Tsetserleg
Quinsay
Baruun-Urt
Kerman
Ereen
Batshireet
Darkham
Choyr
Bulgan
Ulaangom
Sukhbaatar
Tosontsengel
Choibalsan
Atlay
Sainshand
Arvaikheer
Bayanhongor
Har-Ayrag
Nalayh
Dalandzadagad
Tes
Altai
Hutag
Uliastai
Khovd
Ondorhaan
Olgii
Tumentsogt

[Purple]

And here are Calgacus's (49) Mongolian cities:

*Karakorum
Khanbalyk
Dund-Us
Ulan Bator
Uliastay
Moron
Darhan
Dzuunharaa
Suhbaatar
Bulgan
Tsetserleg
Choybalsan
Dalandzadgad
Baruun Urt
Erdenet
Gushun Usu
Agaratu
Tamsog
Biger
Numurge
Muren
Darbi
Kerulen
Lung
Tamchi
Noyon
Obotuin
Ikhe Ude
Chikurting
Bayanhongor
Ulaan-Uul
Arvayhee
Ulaangom
Olgiy
Dzuunmod
Hodrogo
Erenhot
Eg
Bulag
Hatgal
Altraga
Bugat
Togrog
Rashaant
Talshand
Bayanteeg
Onjuul
Avraga
Ogoomor

[Purple]

Originally posted by Dimension
I'm thinking of making my own list with some of the historical names, like:
Atlanta = Terminus (1837), renamed Marthasville (1843)
Austin = Waterloo (1838)
Chicago = Fort Dearborn (although it was razed in 1812 by the Ottawa and mostly vacant until 1830)
Cleveland = Connecticut Western Reserve (1662)
Columbus = Franklinton (1797)
Denver = Cherry Creek (1858)
El Paso = Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe (1659), Ysleta (1682)
Kansas City MO = Westport Landing (1833)
Los Angeles = Reina de Los Angeles (1781)
Memphis = Chisca (founded by the Chickasaw, pre-1500)
Nashville = Fort Nashborough
New York = New Amsterdam (1614)
San Diego = San Miguel (1542)
San Francisco = Yerba Buena ("Good Herb" 1777)

Very cool idea.

[Dimension]

Of course, there's always the problem that America is a pretty crappy civ, so I probably won't get around to it. Expansionist/Industrious would make them great for large or huge maps, but I've never really felt the need to play a game that would take a month. For Industrious, I'd much rather play Egypt or China, and if I want an Expansionist civ, I'd much rather play the Zulu or Iroquois.

[Underseer]

Originally posted by Dimension
Of course, there's always the problem that America is a pretty crappy civ, so I probably won't get around to it. Expansionist/Industrious would make them great for large or huge maps, but I've never really felt the need to play a game that would take a month. For Industrious, I'd much rather play Egypt or China, and if I want an Expansionist civ, I'd much rather play the Zulu or Iroquois.

I'm sure some people feel the need/urge to play as their own country at least once. Even if the tribe isn't particularly good or doesn't match your playing style.