Warring For Iron

RogueKnight · November 18, 2002, 13:24

I'm sure this has been said before, but reseaching Iron Working is very critical to the early game as it reveals iron deposits on the map.

Once the deposits are revealed, you can start wars to take over iron depsits. All civs need iron to make swordsman, and if you can deprive other civs of their iron you have a good chance of dominating that civ militarily.

This works well in the early game as most civs don't have trade routes established to trade for the iron they don't have. Later on in the game the civs will trade each other for iron.

Another big point in this game is initial starting position. I'm not referring to the type of tile squares you start on, although this can be a big game factor, I'm referring to what your position is on the game map.

Starting out on a small island or on a panhandle of a large land mass with other nearby civs, can put you way behind the AI civs. This chokes your expansion at a very early stage of the game and gives the AI a very big head start.

After you make 3 or 4 cities your postion on your continent should become clearer, if you're isolated, you might want to start over. If you want a real challenge, play on.

geoffbland · November 18, 2002, 14:08

Good points. Same is true near enough for horses.
Makes an even bigger different if you require iron/horses for your UUs. In the last game I had the pleasure of grabbing 3 irons and denying Rome the chance to build Legionnaries.

CiverDan · November 18, 2002, 18:23

I agree w/how starting on a small island can hurt u, especially in MP. I played a game last night where I was only on a island with room for 7 cities, with 2 other human and 3 AI civs on the mainland. What was worse, it worse impossible to reach them w/o going over ocean. My mistake in that game was not getting the lighthouse at all costs (I went quickly to Monachy instead). About your only option is to get the Lighthouse, and use 4+ galleys together to try to traverse multiple ocean squares.

With regards to iron, I generally reseach iron working before Horse, unless I have a early Horse UU, so I can see the iron.

ChrisiusMaximus · November 18, 2002, 20:33

geoffbland thats not fair, how dare you defy Rome and steal our iron. Why we shall send our Legions to, oh sorry our Wariors to be slaughtered by your Swordsmen.

Yes I play Rome mostly and iron is crucial. Dont you just love these strategic resources.

ducki · November 18, 2002, 23:45

Quote:

Originally posted by CiverDan
With regards to iron, I generally reseach iron working before Horse, unless I have a early Horse UU, so I can see the iron.

I find this sort of thing very interesting... what other people research first.

Personally, I can't remember the last time I research Iron, or Bronze for that matter - I buy those.

If I'm Commercial, I ignore all the "strategic" techs and go straight for Literature, starting a pre-build GLibrary as soon as I have Writing, unless I'm at war.

If I'm not commercial, I usually research The Wheel first.
I can easily buy/trade for Bronze and I don't need Spearmen for the first 40-80 turns anyway. Also, I'll try to trade for either Alphabet/Writing or CeremonialBurial/Mysticism.

I always try for either Library or Gardens in addition to Colossus, depending on whether I am driving the tech race or if I'm poor and playing catch-up.

If I have a UU that needs Iron, I don't really want to build it yet anyways, because I hate a Despotic GA.

Those that go for Ironworking first... do you build your Iron UU immediately and go to war, Despotic GA be damned, or do you just like the peace of mind of knowing you've got Iron?

How about if you had to choose either Iron or Horses for the Ancient Age...which do you pick?

I prefer horses, obviously, but I like to hear what other people think.

(I recently waged a successful war against Persia and their Immortals with only Horsemen and Archers, so I know you can survive until Chivalry without Iron. I wouldn't advise it, but it can be done if you use the terrain to your advantage.)

punkbass2000 · November 19, 2002, 00:12

I go for Iron Working when Scientific.

Playa del Carmen · November 19, 2002, 01:28

Nowadays, I tend to go for cheaper techs first, unless I happen to spot a couple of stupid AI settlers plodding through my territory to get to the once piece of permafrost encrusted arctic territory at the northern edge of my border. *sigh*

badams52 · November 19, 2002, 19:51

Usually my research is set to 0 and i'm researching a tech I don't want to get via goodie huts. I don't mind being behind during the entire ancient age and sometimes into the middle age as well. Once I get the lead and the AI isn't researching faster than I can, then I start researching the techs I want. Too often whatever I research the AI gets before me, so I don't bother. But sometimes I go for literature since the AI usually doesn't.

vmxa1 · November 19, 2002, 22:54

badams52, I find I have no trouble being behind all during the ancient age whenever I play deity. Well maybe not no trouble, it actually sucks, but I can't do much about it.

RogueKnight · November 20, 2002, 17:02

I originally posted this thread becuase it was a discussion of early game stratagies.

I was getting my butt kicked on Warload until I focused on Iron.

I research to iron first so I can reveal the iron deposits and then I plan my war strategy.

I successfully used the iron strategy as the Persians to take over a large continent, with my starting position strung out in a vertical line of 4 cities on the short side of a lake. I had the Romans right next to me, and 3 other civs on the other side of the lake.

I was palying in Regent difficulty.

After wiping out the Romans, and owning 2 iron deposits, I went to war to take over the other 3 iron deposits on the continent.

I fought short wars against the other 3 civs by making peace with them when I controlled their iron, or when they were about to overwhelm me.

I didn't understand the rules for breaking peace treaties, so I broke them all the time, and the other civs were pissed at me until the modern age.
Of course, after you take a couple of cities from them, they will usually want a peace treaty regardless of how you have treated them.

I also kept all their slaves as workers and didn't give any back (another thing that tics off the AI come to find out), as I didn't have time to make workers.

I finally took over the continent, had five iron in total, and changed governments to Republic.

I built up my infrastructor then, libraries, universities, cathedrals, and then factories. I fought with the AI whenever it tried to start a city on my continent. The AI never successfully invaded my continent and I wound up beating the AI to Hoover Dam.

This game is almost over, which I will probably win by domination, as only 2 major civs are left, one of which I'm currently absorbing in my modern age war.

I've successfully used the same warring for iron tactic playing as the Egyptians and as the French.

I don't know if this tactic will work on higher levels, however if you are in need of a strategy for the early game, it will definately work up to Regent difficulty.

As far as horses go, I have never gone to war over horses, however I will cut the AI off from them as a secondary objective. I will usually research to disclose horses after revealing iron, as horses are necessary to make knights. Then I usually research to Knights.

PS. A good tactic to use on the AI is to engage the AI in one spot with your main force, and send a faster horse unit around them to cut their roads to their iron. If possible, destroy the road on the iron tile.

ChrisiusMaximus · November 20, 2002, 18:05

I couldnt agree more with your strategy, Ive had success doing much the same in one monarch game but my preference is to play regent, its a nice balanced game that can sometimes surprise.

Sheik · November 20, 2002, 20:36

I have found getting iron to be even more essential in PTW because of medieval infantry. I am currently playing a game where I am struggling to get iron because I did not research it soon enough.

Lucarse · November 21, 2002, 04:46

I have a question!.
If you develop Iron working before a neighbouring CIV AI, and the resource appears why does the CIV know its there? or am i wandering stupidly into 'the AI knows where all resources are, and where you live, and you mothers name etc...' thing.

bongo · November 21, 2002, 09:29

The AI will not know that a particular tile has iron before it has the tech. However it WILL know that a tile has SOME kind of resource which will appear later. This strategy sometimes backfires when it place a city on a resource that will not appear for another 3000 years...

Kingof the Apes · November 21, 2002, 19:29

Yes, pay attention to those pointless colonies on islands, they most likely contain late game resources.

Theseus · November 21, 2002, 20:36

A Sword-level early and aggressive strategy is perhaps one of the only reasons to put up with a Despotic GA. It doesn't make sense all the time, but when it does, watch out... much less considering the uber-Sword UUs, and the upgrade to MedInf.

Rome is not my favorite civ, but with the Legions it is pretty indomitable on a not-too-spread-out map.

Changmai Beagle · November 21, 2002, 22:29

Strangely, being that my full Hash name is the Steel Beagle of Changmai - I always used to go straight for Literature every time.

More recently I have switched to going for iron to be able to identify and protect the iron resources. They are just too valuable. I need them for swordsmen for any culture, and if I can keep them away from the Romans and the Persians it makes a big difference in my chance of survival.

Then I mass and attack. The downside, of course if a despotic GA, so I generally hold my fire until I become King if I'm Roman