PRESIDENT BUSH should be tried for war crimes!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

http://www.nme.com/news/103541.htm

Tom Morello former Rage Against the Machine guitarist:

TOM MORELLO, the politically charged guitarist formerly of RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE and now AUDIOSLAVE, says PRESIDENT BUSH should be tried for war crimes if he launches a new attack on Iraq.

In a scathing broadside, Morello added that Bush was destroying America, allowing the economy to "go down the toilet" for the sake of his war on terrorism.

"The war on Iraq never stopped," Morello told NME.COM. "The US have been bombing and maintaining no fly zones for the last ten years. Look at the UN figures - at least one million dead because of bombing and sanctions, half a million of them children.

"If he goes into Iraq now, it'll be a war crime and Bush should be tried in an international court as a war criminal. This renewed sabre rattling is both dishonest and disingenuous. The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East. I believe the true 'Axis Of Evil' is pandemic poverty and an arms race that is continued at great profit for a few. Does he seriously believe bombing Iraq is going to counter terrorism?

"What better way to win an election than to focus on this war on terror. The economy in America is going down the toilet and he is ignoring it completely." Morello added that he believed opposition had to rise from the streets through people power. He also challenged high profile stars such as Bono who have gone to the White House to plead for aid for developing countries, ravaged by war and disease and burdened with massive debt.

"To me change doesn't come by engaging the White House, it comes from the street. I don't think you can go with your cup up to the back door of the White House and say 'Please sir, can I have some peace and justice?' That just doesn't work."

I know the peaceful and president loving Apolytoners wouldn't want to see Dubya in an international court, (even though some might ) he is anyway a stage bloke who does what his cabinet and ministers advised him to do, still lets focus on is part:

The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East. I believe the true 'Axis Of Evil' is pandemic poverty and an arms race that is continued at great profit for a few. Does he seriously believe bombing Iraq is going to counter terrorism?

I think he is right there.

[MarkG]

even the most extreme group of people are buying cd's you know. someone's got to make music for them(and sell it to them)....

[Arrian]

Another idiot who thinks the President runs the economy. Sorry, OFITG, that's a pet peeve of mine.

"**** you I won't do what you tell me!" Fight the Power! Etc.

-Arrian

[Winston]

Never heard of the guy, but he seems to be frightfully important in his own mind. I just love it when people sell some records and wake up one day thinking they're statesmen.

[BlackStone]

Sounds about right to me.

I think that instead of taking him to an international court we should put him in the front lines when it kicks off. See how tough the little tird is then.

[Th0mas]

Never heard of the guy, but he seems to be frightfully important in his own mind. I just love it when people sell some records and wake up one day thinking they're statesmen

I think it's jolly lucky that when you finally become famous you magically aquire all the wisdom and knowledge you missed out on whilst concentrating on you career in showbusiness.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Th0mas
I think it's jolly lucky that when you finally become famous you magically aquire all the wisdom and knowledge you missed out on whilst concentrating on you career in showbusiness.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Oh come on... attacking the messenger again, go and attack the message.
Attack what he said not him.

The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East. I believe the true 'Axis Of Evil' is pandemic poverty and an arms race that is continued at great profit for a few. Does he seriously believe bombing Iraq is going to counter terrorism?

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
...I know the peaceful and president loving Apolytoners wouldn't want to see Dubya in an international court.

I wouldn't want to see George go down, let's keep him if only for his comedy value.

[Ming]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
Oh come on... attacking the messenger again, go and attack the message.
Attack what he said not him.

There is this Wino that hangs out in a park in Chicago...
He claims that Mayor Daley is the reincarnation of the Devil... he offers up just as much evidence as this bozo does... I don't take him seriously either

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Ming


There is this Wino that hangs out in a park in Chicago...
He claims that Mayor Daley is the reincarnation of the Devil... he offers up just as much evidence as this bozo does... I don't take him seriously either

What kind of evidence do you want? This is just an opinion, or a political observation.


Now that you mention it... why do you even ask for evidence? I never see any of the politicans or talking heads back up any of their brovado and war mongering with any evidence. Bush says something, and it's automatically assumed to be true... someone questions it, and he's assumed to be a lunatic?

[Arrian]

Ok, fine. I'm feeling fiesty this morning.

The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination

US economic and military domination is part of the picture, but to say they are the "principal causes of terrorism" is very simplistic.

The way I see it: rage + disenfranchisement + propoganda + fanatical religious doctrine = terrorists.

Rage is generated by injustice, both at home (brutality, corruption, etc) and in the world at large (US foreign policy).
Disenfranchisement is simple: lack of democracy. Without a legitimate political role, some turn to other means.
Propoganda: many governments, particularly in the ME, deflect criticism/rage about the way they runs things by blaming anything and everything on Israel and/or the US.
Fanatical religious doctrine: the promise of glorious martyrdom for killing people.

You will note, perhaps, that I didn't include poverty. The 9/11 terrorists weren't poor. They were middle-class, educated individuals. So it wasn't lack of money that drove them to kill & be killed.

The arms race thing isn't a cause of terrorism. It exists (some call it the military-industrial complex), and I'm no fan of it, but it doesn't really fit in here.

Bombing Iraq won't cut down on terrorism, no. He's got that part right.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

One Head Up The Ass outdoes himself.

[DinoDoc]

Was Barbra Streisand too busy?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Osweld
This is just an opinion, or a political observation.

Anybody that thinks that President is "allowing the economy to go down the toliet" obviously has no clue what he is talking about...

When I look at opinions, I judge the source for the Bias they may have... And what I see here is a guy who might profit from selling a few more cds if he stays in the limelight... So no... I don't take him seriously, and I wonder why anybody would

[DanS]

"Was Barbra Streisand too busy?"

She has minions.

[Winston]

She's too busy finishing her conspiracy theory on the GOP role in Sen. Wellstone's plane crash.

[Arrian]

Yeah, but aren't her minions off trying to find the magic triangle thingies that will allow her to become MekaBarbaraStreisand and rule the world? [/South Park reference]

-Arrian

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Ming


Anybody that thinks that President is "allowing the economy to go down the toliet" obviously has no clue what he is talking about...

When I look at opinions, I judge the source for the Bias they may have... And what I see here is a guy who might profit from selling a few more cds if he stays in the limelight... So no... I don't take him seriously, and I wonder why anybody would

I would

Not too seriously, but at least to see what he has to say.

So on count one... -The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East - involment with Israel, opposition to Iran/ economic embargoes, struggle for cheaper oil etc... there is nothing new there.

For two - I believe the true 'Axis Of Evil' is pandemic poverty and an arms race that is continued at great profit for a few - well pandemic powertymight not be a direct cause, but uneducaded and poor are more likely to provide for a base for the educated few who will come from there and actually organise the terror strikes, and those that will sacrifise themselves (i guess they can be bot educated and not educated - it is just their faith for the cause that is imortant). As for the arms race, it is surely good at the moment that the US is winning, but the arms race does as well generate the great profit for few who can influence and do influence the goverments to go to war/s... anyway - who said that if noone bought US weapons that the ecopnomy would collapse ?

Anyway he reffered it to the "axis of Evil" , unlike Bush's Iraq/Iran/NK - that is what he would think needs to change.

And for three - Does he seriously believe bombing Iraq is going to counter terrorism? - well do you think so?

Here is something to think about

Accordingly, terrorism clearly needs to be stopped and prevented in the
long- as well as short run. While there seems to be a plethora of short-term
military and law enforcement responses to terrorism, there does not seem to be
much in the way of long-term "conflict transformation" or "peacebuilding" (see
Cohen, 2002; Wright, 2002; Boutros-Ghali, 1992; Lederach, 1997). Quite
simply, this means that the "War on Terror" as presently waged is not only not
likely to succeed, but is likely to "self-fulfillingly" exacerbate the
problems it is meant to address. Hence, the comments by Udo Steinbach (2002,
p. 48), director of the German Orient Institute in Hamburg, that:
The fight against terrorism, especially as it is currently
being waged by the US administration, will in all likelihood
radicalize increasing numbers of people in the Muslim world and
heighten their approval of the use of violence in fighting the
West and all those associated with it in Islamic societies. In
the arc from North Africa to Indonesia the resort to terrorism is
rooted in a series of complex, decades-old crises -- over regional
conflicts, internal ethnic problems, or, more broadly, democratic
deficits. It is therefore impossible to solve the problem of
terrorism without simultaneously addressing the underlying
political problems.

from here
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/ICAR/sept11/Terrorbk.pdf

and Arrian

[DanS]

"-The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East - involment with Israel, opposition to Iran/ economic embargoes, struggle for cheaper oil etc... there is nothing new there. "

Which is a stream of liquid BS.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by DanS
"Was Barbra Streisand too busy?"

She has minions.

Oooo that sounds painful

Do you think she can get ointment for that?

[Ming]

Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
I would

And I bet you think that some posters here should have their opinions broadcast around the globe as well...

It doesn't make the opinions any more valid or worth listening too

[DaShi]

Didn't the machine chew him up and spit him out?

[Chris 62]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Was Barbra Streisand too busy?

I was going to say the same thing.

We should make this guy president, and Ozzy should be the Brit PM, THEN things would get done!

Sharrrrrrrrrrron, where the *#@& is Iraq???

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by DanS
"-The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East - involment with Israel, opposition to Iran/ economic embargoes, struggle for cheaper oil etc... there is nothing new there. "

Which is a stream of liquid BS.

?



What about this?

More important, the US, specifically, the Washington elite, has shown little inclination to address the root causes of terrorism. When people are dispossessed – deprived of their land and denied their sovereignty – and oppressed and suppressed by alien rule, they sometimes resort to acts of violence and terror in order achieve their goal.3 In the aftermath of September 11, a number of Arab, Muslim and even non-Muslim leaders had conveyed this message to Washington: the dispossession and disenfranchisement of the Palestinians has created a huge reservoir of anger, frustration and hatred not only towards Israel, the aggressor and the oppressor, but also towards the US, Israel’s protector and benefactor. It may well have been the primary reason why a number of Arabs allegedly piloted the hijacked aircraft into the World Trade Centre (WTC) in New York and the Pentagon in Washington on that fateful day.

http://www.just-international.org/cm...onic-power.htm

not really a pro US article but still it might tell you something.

That was for Israel.. just a quick one...

And I bet you think that some posters here should have their opinions broadcast around the globe as well...

It doesn't make the opinions any more valid or worth listening too

Ming... maybe not... but admittedly you have voted for Libs... man this forum is making you soft

So maybe it makes some sense. Open your eyes, it is nice to voice your own opinion now and than. Sometimes we can change them (opinions) as well if we find the reasons why... I guess we are always out on the search...
Most of the time holding out in our forts until something clicks, and we change it (opinion)

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Chris 62

Sharrrrrrrrrrron, where the *#@& is Iraq???

[DinoDoc]

not really a pro US article but still it might tell you something.

Not really. Israel is nothing more than a side issue for Al Qaeda.

[MikeH]

That reminds me, I should get the Audioslave album.

[Th0mas]

Originally posted by DanS
"-The principal causes of terrorism are US economic and military domination, or perceived domination, in the Middle East - involment with Israel, opposition to Iran/ economic embargoes, struggle for cheaper oil etc... there is nothing new there. "

Which is a stream of liquid BS.

.....I disagree. I believe that that statement covers the principle reasons for why terrorists may be targetting US concerns. You would obviously disagree with their conclusions.

The question is whether these terrorists would be terrorists if the US was not involved.

I think for these terrorists the US has become the 'convenient' enemy. (although the US is not entirely blameless, like any of the top 8 nations)

Not that I am an expert

[DanS]

"What about this?"

It's a flawed analysis. The Arab public in general is fixated on Israel, but the 9/11 hijackers and subsequent non-Palestinian terrorists haven't been.

Have you ever read their stories? US policies have had precious little impact on them.