November 19, 2002, 11:46
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#1
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Time for democrats to admit they underestimated President Bush
Bob Woodward has been making the rounds of the talk shows touting his new book Bush At War. What is particularly interesting to me about that has been Woodwards descriptions of Bush's dominance of the cabinet meetings.
Similarly, in Bob Novaks column we get more evidence that Bush is the guy in charge.
There has been a lot of slurs aimed at Bush's (lack of) intelligence and that it was Cheney who was actually running the country. Given these new indications that Bush really is a "leader" (if not a rocket scientist), isnt it time for the democrats (and some republicans) to admit that they've underestimated Bush's abilities and to re-assess him in this new light?
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November 19, 2002, 11:50
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#2
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Deity
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"Misunderestimated" him, you mean.  I agree that it is false to say that the man is stupid.
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November 19, 2002, 12:01
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#3
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Deity
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I would say the Dems underestimated his appeal, and more importantly, overestimated THEIR appeal.
-Arrian
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November 19, 2002, 12:07
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#4
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I had this discussion elsewhere, many like to call bush "Dumbya", and other such nonsense, while in the mean time, he gets what he aims for, his popularity is through the roof, and he shows REAL leadership.
If he is so stupid, and he keeps thwarting them, what does that make him opposition? 
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I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG
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November 19, 2002, 12:30
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#5
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Well I think the difference is that this is more than just opinion one way or another. Now there is clear evidence that while he's not an 'intellectual' he is a leader (just as Reagan was).
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November 19, 2002, 12:41
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#6
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Emperor
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No, he's no genius, neither was Clinton, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, LBJ, JFK....
I think the point is made along those lines, we didn't elect him to be a genius, he's there to lead the nation.
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I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG
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November 19, 2002, 13:38
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#7
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Emperor
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Many people do underestimate the man. He isnt stupid, but he is also not intellectually curios, which is not a good thing.
He is personable and likebale, but places too much emphasis on strict loyalty (look at how he treats Schroeder now) as the most important virtue.
The Americna people have always liked him, even when he came in he had an approval raing higher than what he got in the election.
All this said, I still despise this admin. from the depths of my soul, and think that in 10 year, IWe all will be paying a high price for their actions today.
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November 19, 2002, 14:23
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#8
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Deity
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I'm not a democrat.
And I did not underestimate. I'm still not impressed with President Bush's actions.
One thing I will admit is I thank god (sometimes satan) that Bush is in the white house and not Gore. But there are many other men that could have handled this terrorism thing better. Republicans are really starting to piss me off. The only thing I like about republicans is keeping the goverment small and not passing a bunch of bullshit laws. But here they are doing that very thing with regards to national security.
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Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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November 19, 2002, 15:29
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#9
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Deity
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Preface: Choices for Americans in the last Presidential election were pathetic.
If the ability to use tragedy to undermine the bill of Rights and boost one's popularity, all while deflecting attention away from woeful economic performance and disdain for the environment is what now passes for leadership, then I guess Bush was uderestimated.
BTW, no one I know ever thought Cheney was in charge. But Bush Sr's ongoing vendetta against Saddam has always struck me as suspicious...
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November 19, 2002, 15:32
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#10
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dissident
I'm not a democrat.
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Great! A lot of liberals have put out a lot of crap about how stupid Bush is and how he's just a puppet. AFAIK this is the first time we get to see just whats really what in the White House. Bush is the one pulling the strings (as he should).
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November 19, 2002, 15:36
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#11
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Emperor
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I couldnt stand Bush when he was campaigning in 2000, but now I have to admit he has shown real leadership. He is also more down to earth than Gore.
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...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
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November 19, 2002, 15:43
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#12
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Prince
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There's the small matter of him actually having lost the 2000 election, but we'll pass over that...
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"Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman
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November 19, 2002, 15:46
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#13
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Emperor
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0.000001
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November 19, 2002, 15:48
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#14
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Guest
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Quote:
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If the ability to use tragedy to undermine the bill of Rights and boost one's popularity, all while deflecting attention away from woeful economic performance and disdain for the environment is what now passes for leadership, then I guess Bush was uderestimated.
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this is exactly why the Dems and Reps are one and the same- carreer-mongering figureheads. The Dems should have took a pit-bull approach and attack the Bush administration on all of the fronts you mentioned, but instead they acted like emasculated pups whose only concern was a nice, safe issue like prescription meds for the elderly. 
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November 19, 2002, 15:55
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#15
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by SpencerH
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Truth not troll. Simple statement of fact.
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November 19, 2002, 15:56
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#16
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Clear Skies
There's the small matter of him actually having lost the 2000 election, but we'll pass over that...
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He didn't lose. He got the most electoral college votes.
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...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
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November 19, 2002, 15:59
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#17
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Emperor
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Like most people who push this crap you seem to have a strange version of 'truth' and 'fact'. Bush collected the most electoral votes, ergo he won.
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November 19, 2002, 16:00
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#18
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Caligastia
He didn't lose. He got the most electoral college votes.
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I'm forced to disagree with both your statement and SpencerH's. He only won Florida by dishonest means - to wit, the illegal disenfranchisement of literally thousands of black Floridian voters
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November 19, 2002, 16:01
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#19
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Warlord
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Clear Skies
Truth not troll. Simple statement of fact.
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You seem to belong to those group of people who simply don't understand the US election system.
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November 19, 2002, 16:04
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#20
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Emperor
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November 19, 2002, 16:06
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#21
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Emperor
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Clear Skies
I'm forced to disagree with both your statement and SpencerH's. He only won Florida by dishonest means - to wit, the illegal disenfranchisement of literally thousands of black Floridian voters
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Do you have any evidence of this?
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...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
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November 19, 2002, 16:13
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#22
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Caligastia
Do you have any evidence of this?
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Evidence that you would accept? Probably not. I can quote a book, but it was banned in the USA for being 'unpatriotic'.
I have online links, if you like. Will CNN do?
http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/...rida.election/
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/nation/934283
I won't quote for fear of taking it out of context. If you don't accept these that's fine, I can't force you to. We may just have to agree to disagree.
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November 19, 2002, 16:17
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#23
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Prince
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__________________
"Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman
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November 19, 2002, 16:20
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#24
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Deity
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It was two years ago. The country has moved on long ago.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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November 19, 2002, 16:22
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#25
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Emperor
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You're right, I won't accept that 'evidence'. All you have are allegations, nothing concrete. If Bush's people really had illegally excluded these voters, don't you think we would know about it by now? You know the dems would love to charge him with something like that, so why havent they? Because they have no evidence.
To say he didn't win the election is just silly.
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...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty
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November 19, 2002, 16:24
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#26
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
It was two years ago. The country has moved on long ago.
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Do I see an admission in the face of evidence, or am I being too optimistic...
Anyway, that isn't the point. The fact is that the wrong man is in the White House, and while I don't doubt Al gore could have (and most likely would have) done a much worse job than Bush, that doesn't make Bush right.
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November 19, 2002, 16:25
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#27
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Deity
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Clear Skies
Do I see an admission ...
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That I just don't care anymore and got tired of listening to this long ago? Yes, you do.
If Gore had won his home state, Florida wouldn't have mattered at all.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
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November 19, 2002, 16:27
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#28
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Prince
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Caligastia
You're right, I won't accept that 'evidence'. All you have are allegations, nothing concrete. If Bush's people really had illegally excluded these voters, don't you think we would know about it by now? You know the dems would love to charge him with something like that, so why havent they? Because they have no evidence.
To say he didn't win the election is just silly.
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I'd like better reasons why you don't accept it. I'm quite prepared for you not to, I'd just like some more justification. And some evidence the other way, if possible.
And IIRC there was a case brought to the attention of the Supreme Court where someone did try and do something about it. Palm Beach Springs Electoral Commission, IIRC. The people who delivered that report that you won't accept, for reasons you haven't given. If an official report isn't enough for you, what is?
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November 19, 2002, 16:28
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#29
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Prince
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__________________
"Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman
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November 19, 2002, 16:28
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#30
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Emperor
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Wonderful evidence! Did you actually read any of it or were the titles enough?
Please be sure to show me where on any ballot (spoiled or otherwise) it has a space to indicate race.
Try again. 
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