Watch for multiplayer cheats

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 17:22

Just FYI - the new CyberMan trainer works in multiplayer mode. So if you have live opponent that seems to have ungodly amounts of cash, is rushing improvements (even wonders) regardless of city disorder status, and has an enormous tech lead, they're probably cheating.

MattH · November 21, 2002, 18:13

Say, uh... what trainer was this again?

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 18:47

I'm not sure it's prudent to post the location in public - but these things aren't too hard to find on the web if you're a determined seeker.

Maquiladora · November 21, 2002, 19:23

How did you find out?

The more people know the more people will use it in MP. Yeah youll be able to look for the cheats now, but people get good at using these things.

FNBrown · November 21, 2002, 19:35

How did I find out?

I was playing a LAN game at home with the wife. I usually treat her better than the AI when it comes to trade negotiations (for the sake of marital bliss), so, basically, I give her whatever techs I have at minimal cost so she can keep up with me during the game.

I had the trainer running on the pc that she was using, but I hadn't expected it to work in multiplayer mode, thinking, "There's no way Firaxis doesn't find a way to block this... "

Sure enough, right after I trade Monotheism to her, she completes the Sistine Chapel in the next turn. I ask, with some indignation, "Did you just rush the Sistine Chapel?!?

She just gives me the evil grin... so, naturally, I tested the trainer a bit further and discovered that it is indeed fully functional in multiplayer mode, even though the author of the program, to his credit, has posted all over the place that it's NOT designed for that sort of use.

Just figured I'd give a heads-up to everyone about it... although a clever cheater could use it and remain almost totally undetected (as long as he didn't get greedy with it).

Killerdaffy · November 21, 2002, 20:01

Quote:

Originally posted by FNBrown
Just figured I'd give a heads-up to everyone about it... although a clever cheater could use it and remain almost totally undetected (as long as he didn't get greedy with it).

Ouch!!! Fixing this should become top priority for any multiplayer patch (well, about 1.15, the next one is already in testing AFAIK).

Panag · November 22, 2002, 16:25

hi ,

, that could explain something , ....

but you have to be carefull to point the finger to fast , some players actually plan way in advance a wonder , so that the minute they get the tech , they have the wonder , ......

have a nice day

Zero · November 23, 2002, 00:42

yea wat panag said is true. you can work on palace then switch up to sistine once u have the tech.

Wittlich · November 23, 2002, 01:30

True, true....However, it would be nice if Firaxis could patch this "cheat" - This way ereryone would know that the player planned ahead and squirrel-away his/her production vice taking the way of the cheat.

Ming · November 23, 2002, 04:28

Sigh... MP games need as much protection against cheat programs as possible. One can only hope that Firaxis realizes this and tries to tighten security with future patches. If it take a genius to cheat, that's one thing... but when the average player can... it destroys the value of the MP experience... sigh...

notyoueither · November 23, 2002, 04:32

Unfortunately, precautions are only as good as the last version. Same with virii. The guardians move to protect, the hackers (cheaters, etc.) crack the protection.

It remains that we must play with those we know if we wish to be truely safe, and then...

Ming · November 23, 2002, 05:00

That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

notyoueither · November 23, 2002, 05:03

I don't see any way around it. The programmers could spend millions on trying to protect it, then some whiz bang kid cracks it.

It is not an area that is effecient for them to pay attention to, unfortunately.

btw, that's a bit of an exageration. However, if the codes are there to crack, the crackers will come. They live for the challenge.

Ming · November 23, 2002, 05:10

If it takes a hard core to crack it... fine. No software is really secure. But when the average person can do it with easily available software, or just use flaws in the game, that's a problem. People are generally honest... but let's not tempt them by making it easy

notyoueither · November 23, 2002, 05:16

True. They could change something to make this cheat ineffective. Then they would trust the author not to renew the assualt.

However, the game sold a million copies, PTW will probably sell 250K. Some of the crowd this game attracts are the serious egg heads.

How long before they decide to have a go? Not long. Hope they do not publish it.

Ming · November 23, 2002, 12:42

That's the big key... Will that hardcores want to keep it to themselves, or make it as common as some of the other cheat programs out there.

But again... playing with known people who you can trust still seems like the best solution.

Dis · November 23, 2002, 14:12

wonder if that editor works with PBEM's. I hope not. I have 2 going right now.

Panag · November 23, 2002, 14:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

hi ,

sounds logical , but what a waste of time , ......

some kind of feedback from firaxis would be nice , ....

have a nice day

MattH · November 23, 2002, 14:48

You know, I think that it's really sad that some people cheat at CIV III multiplayer. I mean... do you really have to? If you're loosing a game, end it, look at what you did wrong, and start a new one. Does your life really depend on a win? Isn't it boring to cheat?

Maquiladora · November 23, 2002, 15:03

Just make it as hard as possible to cheat, thats all they can do. The more copies PTW sells the more chance youll meet one of these cheaters online, thats if they dont make it much harder to cheat.

Like the CtP2 rush buy bug, you can do that on a whim, without leaving hardly any evidence, just rush anything in one turn. It didnt even need an external program so that pretty much killed MP. You cant totally block cheats like someone said they just improve, but you can make it harder, thus less people will bother to cheat.

sabrewolf · November 23, 2002, 15:10

i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub), that such things cannot happen!

it's ok if you cheat alone - you're just cheating yourself, but in MP or other comparative gamestyles (e.g. GotM@CFC) cheating is a shame.

MattH · November 23, 2002, 15:15

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub)

Whats that you're saying? You'd like some more lag? Imagine the time it would take to send the file, check the file, and then resend the file!

Panag · November 23, 2002, 15:38

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
i'm surprised and shocked firaxis hasn't programmed something against cheating. every MP game must be checked and calculated at different positions (e.g. local and at the hub), that such things cannot happen!

it's ok if you cheat alone - you're just cheating yourself, but in MP or other comparative gamestyles (e.g. GotM@CFC) cheating is a shame.

hi ,

they where to occupied with adding the "only possible to play with CD in drive" feature , .....

it would be nice if they could fix this cheating problem , ....

have a nice day

sabrewolf · November 23, 2002, 15:57

it isn't easy to add something like this later on. it would need a complete reorganisation of the calculations --> impossible that they'll do that.

maybe it's possible to check over gamespy or have a patch that detects trainers (never completely safe, but at least it gets rid of those script kiddies and amateur crackers)

Panag · November 23, 2002, 16:02

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf
it isn't easy to add something like this later on. it would need a complete reorganisation of the calculations --> impossible that they'll do that.

maybe it's possible to check over gamespy or have a patch that detects trainers (never completely safe, but at least it gets rid of those script kiddies and amateur crackers)

hi ,

if they really want they can do a lot , ......

instead of making patches , they should start to burn what is new onto the next cd , instead of still burning old stuff , ......

have a nice day

sabrewolf · November 23, 2002, 20:18

Quote:

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

if they really want they can do a lot , ......

instead of making patches , they should start to burn what is new onto the next cd , instead of still burning old stuff , ......

have a nice day

burn what new stuff?
do you mean the new patch? i expect it'll be included in the non-US versions (as of december 6th). but the US-version is published, they can't go selling a different build (ok, they COULD, but they won't)

as for patches: as long as there are serious bugs and missing things, they'll have to bring out patches... otherwise the sales for the next game will be a lot lower (only hardcore players will tolerate a game crashing after 40 hours of civin')

Panag · November 24, 2002, 07:36

Quote:

Originally posted by sabrewolf

burn what new stuff?
do you mean the new patch? i expect it'll be included in the non-US versions (as of december 6th). but the US-version is published, they can't go selling a different build (ok, they COULD, but they won't)

as for patches: as long as there are serious bugs and missing things, they'll have to bring out patches... otherwise the sales for the next game will be a lot lower (only hardcore players will tolerate a game crashing after 40 hours of civin')

hi ,

its not impossible , its done before , so why on earth could it not be done again , ......

they should have a kind of factory recall and fix the thing , sell that and they are going to make loads of money , .......
one , maybe two patches is all that any game needs , that is if its build correctly from the start , .....
without having infogreed wanting this and that every five minutes , .......

have a nice day

sabrewolf · November 24, 2002, 09:46

of course, we'd prefer a perfect game from the beginning on. then no patches would be needed. but as long as the game isn't perfect (or at least very good), i want patches and i want them asap. because the programmers can't do all at once, the patches will be coming out every few weeks to months. that's perfectly fine for me.

just: next time better not release the game until you've got the standard of at least the first patch...!

FrustratedPoet · November 24, 2002, 19:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
That's what we have done with Civ II MP... we only play with people we trust. When new members join "the club", we save every turn and look at them later to see if anything looked "funny"... I guess the same will hold true for Civ III... sigh...

Fortunately us 'poly people have a large and ready supply of like-minded people to play online with, and you can easily tell who's likely to be honest and who it might not be smart to trust just from looking at the forums (mentioning no names

).

we'll be ok, but it's the poor souls who aren't part of a big online community and have to play random games that will suffer from the cheaters.

the best way to check for honest players: if they keep losing all the time it's unlikely that they're cheating.

that's why I'll be the most honest player around.

Ming · November 24, 2002, 19:46

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
if they keep losing all the time it's unlikely that they're cheating.

that's why I'll be the most honest player around.

Truely an honest man...