November 22, 2002, 17:52
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#1
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Settler
Local Time: 11:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Providence
Posts: 24
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how a leader is born....
My question is whether there are any factors that influence the promotion of troops, specifically generateing leaders, besides the militaristic civ trait and the epic.
I am working on the premise that when an elite unit would upgrade instead a leader generates. Is this assumption always true?
Does the opponent influence whether an upgrade happens?
ex. does it matter whether my cavalry is fighting a warrior of muskateer?
Does the lenght of the battle matter?
ex. if it is a long close battle does that improve the chances?
Does whether your unit is attacking or defending prove relevant?
Any other causes you guys have come up with.
Is there anything in the code to better help us understand this process?
Thanks guys!
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November 22, 2002, 18:21
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#2
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Emperor
Local Time: 06:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Maryland Heights, MO
Posts: 6,188
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If an attack with an elite results in a leader, it's always the case that if you had instead attacked with a non-elite, the unit would have been promoted. But the converse isn't neceesary true. This has more to do with pueso-random number generation than anything else.
Military attribute only increases odds of promotion. It helps a lot geting Elite units but doesn't help them produce leaders.
The Epic only improves the odds of leaders. It doesn't increase promotition rates.
There's one important factor though, if you have a leader, you can never get another leader until you use that leader for something.
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November 22, 2002, 18:23
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#3
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,120
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Re: how a leader is born....
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Originally posted by Mr. T
My question is whether there are any factors that influence the promotion of troops, specifically generateing leaders, besides the militaristic civ trait and the epic.
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No, with one exception noted below. And the militaristic trait does not directly increase the odds of leader generation -- it increases the odds of unit promotions (which may indirectly increase the odds of ultimately getting a leader). Only the Heroic Epic chancges the "base" odds of leader generation.
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I am working on the premise that when an elite unit would upgrade instead a leader generates. Is this assumption always true?
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No. At the conclusion of a successful battle a "die is rolled" -- i.e., the random number generator (RNG) is consulted to determine if the relevant test (odds) have been met. The chance of a leader generation is 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, or 1/32, depending on circumstances (discussed below). The odds for pormotion are different -- against another player (not a barbarian) the odds of a veteran being promoted to elite are 1 in 4 (militaristic civ) or 1 in 8 (non-militaristic).
Quote:
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Does the opponent influence whether an upgrade happens?
ex. does it matter whether my cavalry is fighting a warrior of muskateer?
Does the lenght of the battle matter?
ex. if it is a long close battle does that improve the chances?
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No and No.
Quote:
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Does whether your unit is attacking or defending prove relevant?
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Yes - this is the exception. Odds for a leader on defense are halved compared to offense. So, with the Heroic Epic, attacking is 1/12, defending is 1/24. Without the Heroic Epic, attacking is 1/16, defending is 1/32.
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Any other causes you guys have come up with.
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There are a variety of other related rules. You cannot generate a leader battling barbarians. Armies cannot generate leaders. The same unit can generate only one leader -- and such unit will be identified by a "*" next to its name (but, if upgraded to a "new" unit, the "*" goes away and it can again generate another leader). Only ground units generate leaders (no leaders from naval or aircraft units). Although I haven't seen it myself, I understand that if you play with modified rules to allow lethal bombarment, then a bombarding ground unit (i.e., artillery) can generate a leader. Only one leader at a time - so if you have one already waiting, no unit will produce a second leader.
I may have missed something - doing it from memory.
Catt
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November 22, 2002, 22:05
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#4
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Emperor
Local Time: 07:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm!
Posts: 8,907
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You can, however, generate a GL by an elite killing an Army.
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November 23, 2002, 00:27
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#5
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King
Local Time: 06:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Halloween town
Posts: 2,969
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artillery cant generate a leader they have no hp thus no status
__________________
:-p
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November 23, 2002, 10:12
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#6
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,120
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Calc II
artillery cant generate a leader they have no hp thus no status
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I'm told they can with lethal bombard enabled. I played a few games with lethal bombard enabled, and even though they never had HPs, I did see several artillery promoted to elite (but never got a leader).
Catt
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November 23, 2002, 12:25
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#7
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Deity
Local Time: 13:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
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Catt, when are you going to make the definitive FAQ for this game. If anyone should and can, it's you
And if not, Firaxis would do themselves a favor, by letting you write the manual
Ahh avatar, very good, makes your posts easier to spot now, if only theuseus an Arrian would do the same thing 
Any info on it?? Is it a link to California or something??
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Come along and take that ride
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November 23, 2002, 13:27
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#8
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King
Local Time: 04:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: California - SF Bay Area
Posts: 2,120
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Off-Topic: Thanks, Alva!
The avatar . . . it is more or less totally random. There are so many Civ 3 Marine avatars around that I started having trouble identifying my own posts! So I just wanted something unique, but without any specific meaning. I saw an apple on someone's desk, went to the google image search engine and typed in "fruit." Some raspberries came up, and I thought to myself, "I have never seen a raspberry avatar, anywhere." Job done.
Catt
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November 23, 2002, 16:56
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#9
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Warlord
Local Time: 06:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 129
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November 24, 2002, 01:26
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#10
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Warlord
Local Time: 05:27
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: America
Posts: 136
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Catt
I'm told they can with lethal bombard enabled. I played a few games with lethal bombard enabled, and even though they never had HPs, I did see several artillery promoted to elite (but never got a leader).
Catt
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They can produce leaders. I play with modded rules and have done this (Lethal Bombardment with my elite artillery producing Lee)
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