We can now draft, do we want to?

E_T · November 22, 2002, 22:49

This is the Peace Time Policy of the Domestic Ministry conserning the Draft:

1) we draft from cities that are size 12
2) of the cities in #1, we draft from cities that will grow back to size 12 within the next turn.
3) we don't draft from the same city within 20 turns of the last draft.
4) we DO NOT draft within 10 turns of the expected time of going to war.

As of the 1070AB save, we currently have 4 cities that meet the above criteria: Macross City; Tessagrad; Timeline & Gaia. Apolyton will be in criteria in 3 turns, with Here It Is in 5 turns.

Do we want to have a stronger defence, incase we are attacked by one of the other Civs when we go after Otto. Personally, I say that we should invest in this possibility and have the draft.

What is the wishes of the Senate?

E_T

Kloreep · November 23, 2002, 01:39

[rp]
For thousands of years, our nation has had a completely volunteer army. (Er, ignore those poprushed spears over there.

They aren't fit for anything but the museum anyway.) To force our citizens into new wars goes against the glorious past of our armed forces, and to push unwilling recruits into the ranks would taint the honor of our military. Say no! Keep our forces skilled and proud!

Also, such unnecessary drafting would anger the populace and would surely get us all thrown out of office next election. That's the way this new Democracy thing works, my fellow senators.

[/rp]

nz_upy · November 23, 2002, 03:56

Yay for conscription(drafting whatever). But arent we planning on war withing 10 turns?

Spiffor · November 23, 2002, 06:12

I agree with 2)
Drafted units are basically useless, except as a last chance when our cities are attacked. On the offense they're very likely to be crushed by better trained units, and risk to give them a new experience rank.
Such a luxury should only be afforded in cities which wouldn't suffer from the lack of workforce, because it would be replaced immediately

.

Shiber · November 23, 2002, 06:29

IMHO E_T's plan is excellent.

E_T · November 23, 2002, 12:39

Quote:

Originally posted by nz_upy
Yay for conscription(drafting whatever). But arent we planning on war withing 10 turns?

About 20 turns from now will be the earliest, so we can draft from a few cities now.

Even though we might not need them, I would rather have a few extra defences in than go through the possibility of losing a city to a multi Civ attack.

This would also have the added benifit of allowing other things besides Def. Mil units, i.e. Cav, Cannon & EXPLORERS. One of the reasons for the delay in our War against Otto, it to make sure that we can respond to him bringing in more Civs and then take the fight back to them. We don't know what will happen during the war and a conscript or 3 might help.

In the next 10 turns that I'll Allow Peace Time Drafting, there won't be that many cities that will be effected.

AND if done correctly, you can take a conscript all of the way up to elite. Although, you just might lose a couple of them on the way.

E_T
E_T

Epistax · November 23, 2002, 13:03

Panag · November 23, 2002, 14:47

hi ,

, we should only draft when its needed , .....

have a nice day

Zero · November 23, 2002, 17:45

Spiffor,
Draft allows you to move out your veteran unit in the city out to the front. our conscript can commit to better than nothing defense. It also serves to maintain Militray policing if you can have one.

Panag · November 24, 2002, 07:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Calc II
Spiffor,
Draft allows you to move out your veteran unit in the city out to the front. our conscript can commit to better than nothing defense. It also serves to maintain Militray policing if you can have one.

hi ,

if we really have to draft then we should see to it that those units get elite status asap , .....;

but we dont need to draft , we should only draft in case of a federal emergency , .....

have a nice day

canyontree · November 25, 2002, 11:31

Drafting is not a winning strategy. The only practical uses are:

Desparation last ditch defense.
(Usually too late to help but tends to stave off the inevitable. The final condition is the AI gtets a smaller useless city in desparate need of entertainers.)

Instant Police.
(Only useful in Commie, Monarchy, Despotism Govts)

Both are indications that you are loosing. Both are indications that the player has renounced the way of the warrior.

E_T · November 25, 2002, 12:52

Quote:

Originally posted by canyontree
Drafting is not a winning strategy. The only practical uses are:

Desparation last ditch defense.
(Usually too late to help but tends to stave off the inevitable. The final condition is the AI gtets a smaller useless city in desparate need of entertainers.)

Instant Police.
(Only useful in Commie, Monarchy, Despotism Govts)

Both are indications that you are loosing. Both are indications that the player has renounced the way of the warrior.

I beg to differ with you. I ran a sucsessful Offensive War against 2 civs on 2 continents while maintaining a reserve in case the Aztecs had gotten frisky. THis was while in Democracy and the two wars lasted for over 30 turns. I never once had to use the Lux slider, but it did come close.

THe draft was an important part of my stategy. I used them to defend my core cities. I used them to defend worker stacks that were laying down RR in the war zones. I used them to defend cities that were past resisting and no longer in danger of flipping back. This freed up my Vet Units for more Important things.

THis gave me the build flexability to work on (and complete ALL of the Industrial Wonders). To increase my research base to where the AI was buying techs from me. To also increase my monitary base so that I could rush buy a lot (towards the end). It allowed me to keep producing Offensive & Defensive Mil Units while working on all of these things at once.

The war would have been much longer And/Or would have cost me my top position IF I had NOT used the draft. We can always disband them at some later date, for free shields (we didn't us any to produce them).

E_T

joncnunn · November 25, 2002, 13:38

1. Does anybody have an army either larger or the same size as ours?

2. Does the Supereme Military Commender want some conscripts?

Zero · November 25, 2002, 23:20

Everyone missed the point of my post. Drafting is good for moving those veteran infantry/riflemen out from inner empire where they are commiting Mandatory 1-2 man defense and MP duty. Conscripting can free these veterans to go off in the front while conscript can replace the veteran role of MP and inner empire homeland security.

I use conscripting for this reason. I don't really use conscripts much in the war front, though if things look that grim, I guess you have no choice.

joncnunn · November 26, 2002, 11:11

We are a Democracy, so we have no need for military police.

We could easily remove all military units from interior cities. This would actually help the war effort during Germany as the AI starts a wild goose chase trying to capture the undefended cities.

Shiber · November 26, 2002, 12:05

We've already moved out most of the units in the core, and we'll be able to leave most of the inner cities completely undefended after we've completed a vast network of railroads (troops can be immediately transported from one side of our empire to another to deal with point conflicts). However, we've still got to guard our borders and the conscripts, backed up by quick response teams of a few fast units (which we already have since the medieval age), could do just that. They can replace the musketmen (soon to be upgraded to riflemen) currently guarding our borders, so that these can garrison the cities that we conquer from Germany instead of cavalries.

realpolitic · November 26, 2002, 16:12

Normally, I'd agree that conscription is a losing strategy, but we need to deter others from allying with Germany. Our only other tools are:MPPs,alliances,and embargoes(which is a weak straegy-with many less side effects than the 1st 2). In this case, I'd be for conscription if only:

Quote:

Originally posed by E_T
1) we draft from cities that are size 12
2) of the cities in #1, we draft from cities that will grow back to size 12 within the next turn.

realpolitic · November 26, 2002, 16:14

Normally, I'd agree that conscription is a losing strategy, but we need to deter others from allying with Germany. Our only other tools are:MPPs,alliances,and embargoes(which is a weak straegy-with many less side effects than the 1st 2). In this case, I'd be for conscription if only:
[quote]Origanally posed by E_T
1) we draft from cities that are size 12
2) of the cities in #1, we draft from cities that will grow back to size 12 within the next turn.[quote]

Skanky Burns · November 28, 2002, 03:22

As long as the 4 criteria specified by E_T are met, there is no reason not to draft. A stronger military is always good, freeing up vet defenders for other duties is also useful. And once we no-longer need these units, they can be converted into shields at a city of our choice.

E_T · November 28, 2002, 11:31

President Aggie showed up at the Chat last night and made the decision to draft from several cities. We drafted from Macross City, Gaia & Tessagrad. We could have drafted from Timeline, but I made the decision not to because of it's current build of University was at a delicate place in it's build and the loss of one pop for the single turn would have set it back one more turn.

I was going to wait and do it after we had some RR's in place, but some knat size civ desided to get uppity and attack us (and losing our Gems, too). We are in War now, so the Peace time restrictions for Drafting do not apply for now.

I still have to evaluate the cities for a possible draft plan during this war (and the full inpact on happiness from loss of Lux to the fact we were attacked), but I would say that we wait for now.

E_T

MJW · November 28, 2002, 12:43

http://sirian.warpcore.org/civ3/exploits.html
Go there and look at expoilt number 1. 200 units wow!

jdd2007 · December 15, 2002, 12:14

we should definitely draft. we have young men doing nothing but working in libraries for bananas sake! these men could be on the front lines against germany.

draft = more soldiers = more glory = stronger nation = domination

Panag · December 15, 2002, 13:10

hi ,

we should only draft if there is a serious emergency , otherwise its not needed to make the mothers unhappy , .......

for twenty turns , .......

have a nice day

Meshelic · December 15, 2002, 19:25

RP
No down with the draft!

The only way I'll agree to a Draft is if it is in only a small, small number of cities.

Only a small reserve army that fills up the empty defensive positions in our unprotected cities. Nothing more. Conscripts are worthless.
/RP

(I'm playing a character here, I don't really think of conscripts as worthless...they are only a step above worthless. IU've used them quite a bit on occasion, but for different reasons, oppose them here.)

Panag · December 15, 2002, 19:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Meshelic
RP
No down with the draft!

The only way I'll agree to a Draft is if it is in only a small, small number of cities.

Only a small reserve army that fills up the empty defensive positions in our unprotected cities. Nothing more. Conscripts are worthless.
/RP

(I'm playing a character here, I don't really think of conscripts as worthless...they are only a step above worthless. IU've used them quite a bit on occasion, but for different reasons, oppose them here.)

hi ,

agreed , and if we where to plan our industry a bit we would never have to draft anyone at all !
we should only draft in case of national emergency and even then , ............

have a nice day

Meshelic · December 15, 2002, 19:57

What's better than 2HP Conscripts defending a city?

Hmm....Veterans defending a city! Professional soldiers are much better than any of our workers taking up a rifle...

Panag · December 15, 2002, 20:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Meshelic
What's better than 2HP Conscripts defending a city?

Hmm....Veterans defending a city! Professional soldiers are much better than any of our workers taking up a rifle...

hi ,

indeed , now its time we start very soon to put one artillery and infantry in each border city and one infantry in all the other cities we have , .....

have a nice day

Meshelic · December 15, 2002, 20:47

Better that the men work in libraries to further our education than for us to lose a whole generation of men in a world war!

jdd2007 · December 15, 2002, 20:59

i agree that education is important, but having the largest, most powerful army in the world is much bigger a priority.

Kloreep · December 15, 2002, 21:52

Quote:

Originally posted by jdd2007
i agree that education is important, but having the largest, most powerful army in the world is much bigger a priority.

Spoken like a true Hawk.

Rome's betrayal does call for limited conscription, but just that; limited. Our libraries are more important than a few units; armies can only be used for conquest, and become outdated. As useful as conquest is, knowledge is forever.