Thread Tools
Old November 24, 2002, 23:54   #31
Choke
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 523
I didn't say there shouldn't be a limit to how involved governments get, and the economy is not the only thing involved in governing which is another grave oversight of Libertarians. People, not dollars, are what is governed and with people there are more concerns than tax and interest rates. Also there is the matter of foreign affairs.

For instance I think the Canadian government does a better job of governing than America's does. For instance race is not a big issue in Canada the way it is south of the border. Also no planes have crashed into Canadian buildings. In Canada there are less problems to do with homelessness and poverty. Our air and water are cleaner. Special interest groups are far less militant. Things are managed better because the government is big enough to handle them.
__________________
"Long live Iraq. Long live Jihad. Long live Palestine. God is great, God is great." - President Saddam Hussein
Choke is offline  
Old November 24, 2002, 23:58   #32
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
Canada and the U.S. are absolute apples and oranges and you know it.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 00:29   #33
Choke
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 523
No we aren't and you don't want to admit that.
__________________
"Long live Iraq. Long live Jihad. Long live Palestine. God is great, God is great." - President Saddam Hussein
Choke is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 00:43   #34
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
*sigh* I'm not going to go over the innumerable differences between Canada and the U.S. Let's just say the mere fact that we have a bunch of cities on the same continent do not make us so easily comparable on the terms you listed.

At any rate, the U.S. has a higher standard of personal liberty and we value that enough to consider those shortfalls a simple price to be paid for it.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 03:30   #35
Choke
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 523
And Canada has a higher standard of societal liberty and we value it enough to consider it more important than mere personal liberties.
__________________
"Long live Iraq. Long live Jihad. Long live Palestine. God is great, God is great." - President Saddam Hussein

Last edited by Choke; November 25, 2002 at 05:14.
Choke is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 05:28   #36
Case
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
Case's Avatar
 
Local Time: 21:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,057
Bah!, Australia's better then Canada and the US combined

Honest
__________________
'Arguing with anonymous strangers on the internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be - or to be indistinguishable from - self-righteous sixteen year olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.'
- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
Case is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 07:22   #37
winterfritz
Prince
 
winterfritz's Avatar
 
Local Time: 11:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: I'm sailing this thing to Mexico
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally posted by Case
Bah!, Australia's better then Canada and the US combined

Honest
He's right... who can take seriously a continent that picked baseball over cricket?
winterfritz is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 11:18   #38
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
Oh Choke, I forgot to mention that we're the lone superpower. Yeah, that whole thing.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 11:22   #39
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
Btw, could you define "societal liberty"? What does that mean, that a man is "free" to not work or or "free" to have health care, because the rich pay for it through taxes?

You can call Canada's system fair, and I'll gladly respect that opinion (even understand it to a point), but don't call it free.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 16:19   #40
St Leo
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
St Leo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
Please keep the OT discussions confined to the SLeague forum.
__________________
Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
St Leo is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 17:25   #41
Choke
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 523
Sorry St Leo, you could move the thread I guess.

Anyway Darius how could you NOT know what societal liberties are? In America you are free to be a glutton, in Canada you can't be such a glutton but you are free from starvation. Real freedom is freedom FROM not freedom TO.
__________________
"Long live Iraq. Long live Jihad. Long live Palestine. God is great, God is great." - President Saddam Hussein
Choke is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 18:03   #42
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
Well, millions and millions of people think real freedom is exactly the other way around.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 18:35   #43
tanelorn
Scenario League / Civ2-Creation
Prince
 
tanelorn's Avatar
 
Local Time: 13:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: of the deep blue sea
Posts: 709
Re: No new PBEM's recently, are there?
Quote:
Originally posted by Valuk
Is there no one left who wants to play?
Come on!
A player in needed in Lebensraum 1939 #2 to play the British
tanelorn is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 20:11   #44
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
Actually I beg to differ: less government is better. Freedom is the right to be left alone not a right to entitlements. Sure, you may have better security, as in security against diseases, poverty, etc, but you give up your liberty to do what you want. It's called communitarianism, the "greater good" of the community
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 20:30   #45
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
Pretty much Choke, as I've said before if you think it's "fair" for people to have entitlements, just say so. Don't use the words "societal liberty" in such a way, because liberty has nothing to do with it. There's no such thing as "freedom from starvation".
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 20:32   #46
techumseh
Civilization II PBEMScenario League / Civ2-Creation
Emperor
 
techumseh's Avatar
 
Local Time: 05:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: of the frozen North.
Posts: 4,197
Quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
Please keep the OT discussions confined to the SLeague forum.
Yeah, you should talk!
techumseh is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 20:40   #47
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
*And to think this all happened because of a link from me!*
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 20:41   #48
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
But, I think soon enough there will be more interest, like once TSFE closes up shop That was a nice PBEM...
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 21:18   #49
Choke
Prince
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 523
"It's called communitarianism, the "greater good" of the community"

Exactly, and Darius, there is such a thing as freedom from. I believe the greater good always must always be prefered over the individual.
__________________
"Long live Iraq. Long live Jihad. Long live Palestine. God is great, God is great." - President Saddam Hussein
Choke is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 21:23   #50
The ANZAC
Civilization II PBEMCivilization II Democracy Game: Red FrontScenario League / Civ2-Creation
King
 
The ANZAC's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Rodina!
Posts: 2,334
So I guess you aren't a great believer in the ends don't justify the means?
__________________
Georgi Nikolai Anzyakov, Commander Grand Northern Front, Red Front Democracy Game
The ANZAC is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 21:36   #51
Darius871
Civilization II PBEM
Emperor
 
Darius871's Avatar
 
Local Time: 06:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Smith, Wesson, and Me
Posts: 8,028
A lot of people aren't, unfortunately.
__________________
Unbelievable!
Darius871 is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 22:19   #52
JamesJKirk
Civilization II PBEM
King
 
JamesJKirk's Avatar
 
Local Time: 03:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dixon, CA USA
Posts: 1,156
The freedom us yanks are talking about IS "freedom from", civil liberties vs civil rights, the former being actions the government doesn't take, the latter being actions it does take to try to ensure maximum liberty. I don't think any of us here would choose to solely take one or the other, we just have different ideas on balance. But I know that it's always safer to value individual liberty, without that value, the US would have just rollen over and given a totally blank check to the gov after 9/11 (as it is we just gave them a blank check with an expiration date), and accepted such horrible ideas as TIPS and this new DoD thing called TIA which wants to monitor every monetary transaction of everyone who does anything in the US
JamesJKirk is offline  
Old November 25, 2002, 22:51   #53
St Leo
Scenario League / Civ2-CreationApolytoners Hall of Fame
 
St Leo's Avatar
 
Local Time: 07:28
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
People, don't argue over silly things in here. That's what the SLeague forum is for.

In any case, you are promoting Socialism by pretending it's Fascism and Libertarianism by pretending it's Anarchy.

A player in needed in Lebensraum 1939 #2 to play the British

Any takers?
__________________
Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
St Leo is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:28.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team