What difficulty should I play at? Modswapper?

marder · November 24, 2002, 03:37

What difficulty should I play at? I always play games at the hardest difficulty level but Im starting to suspect that the AI is cheating... If so, that is pretty bogus.

Also, I can't get modswapper to work. I installed cradle but modswapper will only list the original version. Booo

vondrack · November 24, 2002, 04:11

Well, prior to deciding on the difficulty level, you may wish to consider choosing the proper forum...

Cradle and modswapper sound pretty CtP-ish to me... This is a Civ3 forum. Cradle and modswapper will not work with Civ3.

vmxa1 · November 24, 2002, 16:17

It has been well documented that Civ3 has only one cheat in the game.

Sean · November 24, 2002, 23:30

One too many!

Spiffor · November 25, 2002, 05:59

The AI gives its bets intelligence from Regent (middle difficulty) on. After that, the extra difficulty comes from AI bonuses and player maluses :

- AI produces more quicly
- AI gets more units at the beginning of the game
- AI is more willing to trade with each other rather than the player.
- Player researches more slowly

Yep. That's cheating, because the AI cannot compete with a human intelligence (suprised ?

)

vmxa1 · November 25, 2002, 14:00

The AI is not more willing to trade with each other as it can not tell one AI from a human. That is only your perception. The dev's have stated it uses the same criterion to evaluate trades regardless of whom it is with. It does not have a means of knowing you are the human. Handicaps are not cheats. Are you cheating because you have a handicap against the barbs on all levels except deity? These are just spots you are giving or getting if playing at lowest levels.

Stuie · November 25, 2002, 14:49

Perhaps it would be better stated:

The value of a trade is calculated differently when evaluating a trade with a human than with another AI.

@marder: Regent level is supposedly an even playing field - no advantages/disadvantages for the AI or the human.

Maquiladora · November 25, 2002, 14:50

Hes talking about CtP2.

AI cheats are what make it a challenge, but there are some absurd ways to help the AI in Civ3. But hey it makes the game a challenge which is never a bad thing, as long as you can turn a blind eye to it.

Stuie · November 25, 2002, 15:04

... or turn it off. I've found it's possible to get more out of the AI by defining maps in certain ways - usually wet, cool, 3byr maps will get you a few good AI opponents late in the game, no cheating necessary. There was a discussion about this early in the summer.... can't find it now.

Of course, I've also made some adjustments in my mod to get some of the civs to actually build/trade better than they currently do, but still, they're not getting production bonuses and such.

vmxa1 · November 25, 2002, 18:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie
Perhaps it would be better stated:

The value of a trade is calculated differently when evaluating a trade with a human than with another AI.

The point is that the game does not have a mechanism to distinquish between AI or Human. The routines used are the same and have no consideration for the human. It does not know it is trading with a human or another AI civ. All of the factors used are the same regardless of who is involved in the trade.

Stuie · November 26, 2002, 09:18

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
The point is that the game does not have a mechanism to distinquish between AI or Human. The routines used are the same and have no consideration for the human. It does not know it is trading with a human or another AI civ. All of the factors used are the same regardless of who is involved in the trade.

Now I would call that an incorrect statement. There is in fact a mechanism to evaluate trades between AI civs differently than those between AI and human. The AI will give another AI a discount on a trade based on the Trade Rate set in the editor. This discount is NOT given to the human player. Catt summed it up best in another thread:

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt
The AI will try and charge other AI's full price -- only if the buying AI cannot afford full price will the Trade Rate come into play -- it will then determine how much of a discount the selling AI is willing to take from a buying AI.

Of course in practice I believe it comes into play frequently, because the AI tends to spend its assets (maps, gold, techs, etc.) as soon as it gets the chance.

Thus, the AI does know the difference between AI and human trading partners, and does use a different set of factors to evaluate a "fair" trade when dealing with another AI.

Or, maybe this is just a matter of semantics.

vmxa1 · November 26, 2002, 13:46

Take your self down to a store that has the strategy guide for PTW and turn to age 123. "The AI in civilization III cannot differentiate bewteen the human player and other AI players, so the AI can't gang up on you just because you are the human." Is that clear enough?

vmxa1 · November 26, 2002, 13:52

Oh and another quote from P124:
"The development team went to great pains to make sure that if you play and make the same decissions as an AI opponent, given the same conditions, your game and the AI's game would be absolutely identical. So, if you think the AI is cheating you, it's just a case of sour grapes on your part."
So can you give me any reason why you are correct and they are in error?

vmxa1 · November 26, 2002, 13:58

Stuie I do not wish to be rude, but you must understand that anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all. Perception is reality until it is shown not to be by the facts. I must concluded that the authors are the best evidence until the code is exposed.

Homunculus · November 26, 2002, 16:30

then may i ask. why do the AI always offer like the lowest tech for masonry, and i have to pay up with alphabet, Writing and Gold?

and another, how comes my AI opponent gets INSULTED by my offer of furs+100gold/turn (yes 100 gold PER TURN) for his silks and is happily trading with other civs?

Must be me doing something wrong

but WHAT?

Stuie · November 26, 2002, 17:22

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
Stuie I do not wish to be rude, but you must understand that anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all. Perception is reality until it is shown not to be by the facts. I must concluded that the authors are the best evidence until the code is exposed.

Hey, I don't think you're being rude. Just having a discussion here...

I really think it may all be a matter of perception.

Anyway, there definitely is an AI trade factor that is used in calculating deals between AI factions. I'm not saying that they gang up on the human or anything, just that they evaluate trades differently between AIs. It's not anecdotal evidence; it's in the editor, and described as such in the Help file in the editor - fact. That, to me, means the AI distinguishes between AI and human when conducting trades. Your perception may be different.