How long will the AI wait before colonizing jungle?

Elowan · December 1, 2002, 02:31

Since a Settler cannot move through jungle and/or mountains - I would assume that the AI would avoid these areas as long as possible.

What say you?

Raion · December 1, 2002, 05:28

Settler can move and the AI sets up towns in the jungle.
Can't settle towns on a mountain.

Alex · December 1, 2002, 08:41

yes, it is possible to build cities in jungles. The AI does that all the time.

Elowan · December 1, 2002, 10:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Raion
Settler can move and the AI sets up towns in the jungle.
Can't settle towns on a mountain.

I'm using 1.29f and my settlers cannot stop on a mountain (nor walk across them) nor can they traverse a jungle though they can traverse hills and forests.

Elowan · December 1, 2002, 11:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexnm
yes, it is possible to build cities in jungles. The AI does that all the time.

That was not my question. My question is - will they do this straight-away or will they wait and for how long?

werdhertz · December 1, 2002, 12:45

If your settler cannot walk through Jungles or across Mountains you are using modded rules.

The AI settles randomely, it does`nt have a set time period for settling in Jungles.

Elowan · December 1, 2002, 12:56

I may be using modded rules - but none of the changes have anything to do with Settler. However - now that you've brought it up - I'll check it out. Earlier versions didn't have that restriction.

But - come to think of it - I first noticed this when playing an unmodded 1.29f.

Anyone here experience the same thing?

Acemo · December 1, 2002, 14:08

I think you are using modded rules too, it sounds like settlers have the same flag that catapults and chariots have.
I (AI too) have always been able to settle in jungles.

Elowan · December 1, 2002, 14:29

I checked an earlier version of this mod - and you're right - Wheeled was set for Settler. But this is NOT the case in the new mod; it played normally.

However - I'm not so sure this is a bad thing. Firstly - it means that you have to road mountains and jungles before a Settler can move through or settle a jungle square. This is not altogether bad because I have noted that the AI doesn't seem to figure this out.

Tattila the Hun · December 2, 2002, 07:03

Come to think of it, one doesn't just walk into jungles and build cities... But I do wonder why one cannot build cities in mountains, I think the incas had mountain cities, with stairway irrigation.

dannubis · December 2, 2002, 08:41

In fact, after the spanish defeated the inca forces in machu pichu the inca's fled into the amazon jungle and founded new cities there.

Minmaster · December 2, 2002, 09:05

sounds like he's using dyp mod

Coracle · December 3, 2002, 00:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Alexnm
yes, it is possible to build cities in jungles. The AI does that all the time.

Which is stupid, and tells me the AI is getting freebie settlers to build crappy little towns in bad locations.

Solution? Be sure in the editor you make settlers WHEELED. That way, they will not be able to get through jungles unless roads are built. More sensible; more realistic.

Theseus · December 3, 2002, 01:41

Uh, can we say South America?

Minmaster · December 3, 2002, 08:19

i dont mind if AI settles in jungles before i do. i like to wait for them to settle there, clear the jungles, and by modern or industrial age, i go in and take the cities that took centuries to clear the jungles for me.

Elowan · December 3, 2002, 11:25

I agree with Coracle - set Settlers to Wheeled - which happened by accident in my case (hence this thread) - because it does make the game play better in my opinion.

I have a game now wherein I have a choke-point (Mountain) between me and the Romans. I have fortified two Warriors there. Between that C-P and good territory is lots of jungle - which I can settle later on.

On the other side of the landmass - a string of mountains with one small gap separates me from the Japanese. I've stationed troops at the gap. From there to my territory is about 10-12 squares of jungle.

I'm currently playing this modless but given the circumstances - I think I'll mod the Settlers and start over. Right now I'm building towns in the jungle up against the border and using Workers in teams to clear out the jungle. That yields up lots of shields to build anti-corruption facilities as well as troops.

I've not seen the AI carry workers in their ships.

Anyone?

Carver · December 3, 2002, 15:59

Setting settlers as wheeled might be a nice trick to slowing AI expansion but I don't think it realistic. True there aren't many large cities in the jungle, but people do walk into the jungle and build villages - and a size 1 town is little more than a village anyway.

theNiceOne · December 4, 2002, 07:09

Making the settler wheeld can indeed make for some nice game experiences, but be aware that you will be giving yourself a big time advantage.

It will be much more easy for you to block AI settlers (and the AI don't intentionally block yours).

For the human player, settling those squares will only be delayed by the time it takes to build a road there first. The AI won't understand this, and will not build roads to be able to settle there.

So, feel free to use it, but untl this is programmed into the AI, you will probably be playing a game that in effect is a difficulty level or two below the actual setting.

Elowan · December 4, 2002, 11:02

Quote:

Originally posted by theNiceOne
Making the settler wheeld can indeed make for some nice game experiences, but be aware that you will be giving yourself a big time advantage.

It will be much more easy for you to block AI settlers (and the AI don't intentionally block yours).

For the human player, settling those squares will only be delayed by the time it takes to build a road there first. The AI won't understand this, and will not build roads to be able to settle there.

So, feel free to use it, but untl this is programmed into the AI, you will probably be playing a game that in effect is a difficulty level or two below the actual setting.

Given that the AI does not suffer the 'slings and arrows' of the 'Fog of War' (as an example) and seems to know where the Barbarian settlements are even in a blacked out area of the map and will make a beeline for territory close to or within the center of your empire, etc. - I sure feel sorry for the 'poor old AI'.

Having played a game with Settler set as Wheeled, the game was - if anything - a degree or two harder than an un-modded one.

Stuie · December 4, 2002, 14:01

Why not just make jungles unable to support cities? That's what I did - along with deserts. Settlers can pass through them, but cannot build cities on them.

Elowan · December 4, 2002, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Stuie
Why not just make jungles unable to support cities? That's what I did - along with deserts. Settlers can pass through them, but cannot build cities on them.

Because clearing the jungle - with gangs of Workers - can yield tons of shields.

MiloMilo · December 5, 2002, 03:46

Elowan, you could do that just as well/much if you followed Stuie's suggestion. Question for you: why was the game harder with settlers as wheeled.

And Stuie: that's a nice idea. How does it affect gameplay? Does it give the human an advantage, or will the AI clear and then settle city sites?

theNiceOne · December 5, 2002, 04:02

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Elowan
Given that the AI does not suffer the 'slings and arrows' of the 'Fog of War' (as an example) and seems to know where the Barbarian settlements are even in a blacked out area of the map and will make a beeline for territory close to or within the center of your empire, etc. - I sure feel sorry for the 'poor old AI'.[QUOTE]
Point taken. And the AI doesn't only "seems" to know barbarian camps - it does know it - as it knows everything else on the map.

Personally - I consider this as what the AI has instead of a memory. A human player will remember the direction a barbarian came from and therefore make an educated guess of where the camp is. And a human will remember that an enemy ship disappeared in a given direction, and can send out ship in that direction to find it.

The AI knowledge cheat is still a cheat, but to me it's partly justified by the AI's total lack of memory. A good AI memory would make for a much better game though.

But I'm wandering off-topic. We were discussing wheeled settlers, weren't we

?

Quote:

Having played a game with Settler set as Wheeled, the game was - if anything - a degree or two harder than an un-modded one.

You need to explain this. I can easily understand that it was harder "by a degree or two" for you to expand as fast as usual, but at the same time, it should be harder "by 5 degrees or 10" for the AI for the reasons I stated in my previous post. So please explain.

Elowan · December 5, 2002, 11:21

I was referring to the particular game I described. It takes more time to carve roads through jungles and mountains than it does moving a settler through same - your entire strategy has to change.

In my case - I ended up having to fend off galleys with settlers invading my space and ended up at war sooner than if I had not wheeled the Settler.

The AI gets really agressive (as if it isn't already) when it runs out of expansion space. Furthermore - it's programmed to rapidly build toward rival Civs - in particular the Player (or so ir seems).

Try it both ways for yourself.