Early Conquest Discussion

-Jrabbit · December 2, 2002, 10:32

The following quote was recently posted in the current "No Trade, No Problem" Succession Game.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Comment from the cheap seats - hope you guys remember to turn the science down to zero now you have the key tech (MONO) - the AI will follow suit and you can keep the offensive window open much longer ...

SG[1]

Is this a commonly known technique?

My solo game at home right now is an early conquest attempt. I ran to Monarchy-Monotheism-STWA but kept science (the usual 70-30), planning to get better boats and soft Fundy.

The above quote suggests dropping scince much earlier than I normally do. I've heard that one can take the world with vet crooks, but never considered this as a strat.

Makes me wonder -- What other key methods might I be missing? Maybe my WoW mix is hurting me too...

Comments specific to SG[1]'s are sought, along with general advice on this topic.

thanks.

rah · December 2, 2002, 12:54

Yes it is a commonly known technique. The AI will mimic your science mostly (there have been some exceptions reported). This does work best if you can do it before they get trade. Otherwise even with a low percentage set for them, they will continue to develop techs through science bonuses from caravans. If you can keep then all in war mode, they will produce military units instead of caravans. But the non-agreessive civs will revert the second they're at peace. And as is typical, once one civ gets a tech, the rest get it soon.

And yes vet crooks can rule the world. Especially since the AI usually doesn't build on defensive terrain. It's real easy if the AI doesn't have fued or masonry yet.

Lars-E · December 2, 2002, 15:11

Why is monotheism the key tech?

What is STWA again...?

rah · December 2, 2002, 15:19

Monotheism is the tech required for CRUSADERS/alias crooks

STWA= Sun Tzu's War Academy.

Lars-E · December 2, 2002, 15:22

And crusaders are THE unit for early conquest?

Do you steal techs To keep up sciencewise with the AI?

rah · December 2, 2002, 15:46

The ai is very very very rarely ahead of me in tech. Maybe right at the beginning if they meet each other and trade their techs before 3000. THe only other ones would be techs off my optimal path that are nice to have but not critical. I may steal one or two of them. But I don't need to steal just to stay ahead.

Note how the AI places citizens. It's priority is food, not trade. So until the cities are a good size, the city will not be set to maximize science like your's can be. So you can win the race to the techs that increase your techs. I.E. philo, astronomy, Theory, rail etc. (even with the AI needing fewer beakers per advance)

Or you can just set your science rate low and deliver a lot of caravans. If you can destroy enemy caravans, there is now way the ai will get many new techs.

Or you can use my preferred method and just trash them back to the stone age.

If they never have more than a handfull of cites, they can't possibly compete in the tech arena.

Scouse Gits · December 3, 2002, 07:28

IMHO there are two key windows of opportunity for early conquest - the first (if you choose to take that route) is Mono for crooks - once the AI catches up then rush to Steam for Clads, close down science again and repeat the mayhem...

SG[1]

Smash · December 3, 2002, 16:27

Because the AI never seems to be interested in pikemen,knights(vets better) can also conquer most maps on their own.Use them with a few diplomats and triremes and it is just a matter of time.BC finishes are possible.

La Fayette · December 3, 2002, 16:59

IMO the two main factors are size of map and % of water. Up to standard or medium size of map, with coastal access available to triremes, you can easily win with elephants: the best example of this is DaveV's surprise victory in 43 turns in the Rome scenario

.
Many people prefer to wait for crusaders. I see no good reason for that, since vet elephants can get rid of any unit previous to Gunpowder (though they suffer heavy losses against vet pikemen). The main problem with either elephants or crooks or knights is walled cities, hence my own preference for elephants since you can build them much sooner.
And, of course, with bigger maps and higher % of water, ironclads rule

Lars-E · December 3, 2002, 17:28

The third way:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...115#post536115

Dunno what "restart civ" is.

Scouse Gits · December 4, 2002, 06:45

Restart Civ -- when you start a game you are offered the chance to 'cusomise the rules' one of the options is 'Do not restart civilisations' -- the default setting for the game allows civilisations that have been destroyed early (my memory says 'before 1500BC' - but I could easily be mistaken) to restart - this means that a new civilisation of the same colour enters the game with an 'average' collection of technologies - this makes early conquest difficult as you have to track down all the bloody Settlers and essentially kill all civs both existing and respawned on the same turn - hence we Rodents tend to select the No Restart option

SG[1]

Lars-E · December 4, 2002, 12:15

From my link above:

Quote:

Originally posted by Xin Yu Select restart civ, build a lot of explorers and diplos, hoping that one of them will be able to catch a new born civ's first settlers before they can build any city.

The non-rodents which includes Xin Yu, choose "restart civ" apparently because you can catch non(?)-settlers?

Scouse Gits · December 4, 2002, 12:25

That discusion was predicated upon a maximum score game, not an early conquest game...

SG[1]

Straybow · December 5, 2002, 01:38

Smash: somewhere the true nature of the pikemen defense bonus was explained. It takes effect only against any attacker with movement = 2 (not movement ³ 2) and defense = 1.

Interesting? A Knight doesn't trigger the defensive bonus of the pikemen. I used to replace Phalanxes with Pikers, but it really isn't worth it. I don't rush to Feudalism because it makes Warriors obsolete, so by the time I could build Pikes everyone has Knights.

Scouse Gits · December 5, 2002, 04:18

Stray - are you sure? I thought it was Move=2 and HP=1 ... but I confess uncertainty

SG[1]

DrFell · December 5, 2002, 11:52

Yeah, it's HP=1. So dragoons and better aren't affected.

Straybow · December 9, 2002, 02:40

I s'pose I misread… hafta get back to the library at Sticky Mouse for remedial studies.

TCO · December 15, 2002, 00:13

I've done the early win with ellies several times.

Marquis de Sodaq · December 19, 2002, 23:59

The pikeman bonus is triggered by an attack of a land unit with move = 2, hp = 2.

Elephants can also be good for early conquest. The only real problem with them is that your cities typically produce fewer shields at that stage of the game. However, with good production, it's worth building them to bum rush the AI.

Scouse Gits · December 20, 2002, 03:17

Typo M le Marquis surely you mean HP=1

SG[1]

War4ever · December 23, 2002, 23:52

agreed scouse gits

Marquis de Sodaq · January 1, 2003, 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Typo M le Marquis surely you mean HP=1

SG[1]

Indeed, I once again clicked 'submit reply' without reading what I'd typed...

(le marquis carefully reading the above sentence)