December 3, 2002, 14:09
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#1
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Chieftain
Local Time: 07:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Burlington, ON
Posts: 51
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Who's given up on MP?
I am very close to just throwing in the towel and deciding to give up on the CIV III MP option as a viable option for play. I have on ocassion been successful in getting games up and running, but the games that have worked have for the most part been far less enjoyable than the single player version. I think that the MP product needs a lot more features in order to be really usable and to allow a strong community to develop around the game.
Some of the things I can think of:
- balanced starting positions option.
- recording of statistics by screen name (i.e. wins, losses, civs played, incomplete games, score, number of leaders produced, cities built, number of cities conquered/lost, kings taken/lost, civs eliminated, average power/score/culture, etc.) that are visible on a website.
- proper recording of scores (e.g. domination victory when everyone else quits should not be worth 17,000 points- maybe your ending score + a few additional points for the victory.
- automatic organizing of games including people of reasonably close skill levels, forced patching to play MP.
- stability (there's no reason why a turn-based game should not run absolutely smoothly with only 8 players on broadband).
- save games on a central server (to avoid edits or cheats)
- ability to see who's in the lobby, store buddy lists, etc. without having to use Gamespy.
Has anyone out there been successful in getting a game started with more than 4 people (even with the 1.14 patch)?
There seems to be very few people in the community that are willing to play MP games, and actually have reasonably good pings. When proceeding to the game lobby, half of the players usually don' t end up making it.
The requirement to ask people to leave when their connection is not up to speed really makes it a lot more effort than its worth. Crashing is still an issue, although less than previously.
Players who join a game, if they are lucky enough not to be disconnected, quit the game as soon as things aren't going their way. Instead of allowing an AI to take them over, the entire civ gets destroyed. Persuading people to continue investing time in a game when they are less developed or less powerful in the beginning is too difficult - it's human nature not to want to invest more time in a losing situation.
When a game actually works, usually its only 2 or 3 players. With so few players, it's not really Civilization, it just becomes a glorified wargame, as someone mentioned on another thread.
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December 3, 2002, 21:14
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#2
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Deity
Local Time: 05:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 17,354
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I like the screen name.
there is always pbem. I still have hope for that. I have several games going on.
__________________
Focus, discipline
Barack Obama- the antichrist
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December 3, 2002, 21:42
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#3
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Prince
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of the Sierra Nevada foothills
Posts: 527
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I've given up on LAN play due to persistent out of synch errors.
Just finished a hotseat game... although I don't think I have the patience to use that feature repeatedly. I'd really like to see the LAN play work more reliably.
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December 4, 2002, 13:38
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#4
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Prince
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 387
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Re: Who's given up on MP?
I went to Gamespy once, spent there ~3 hours, and I am never going back. However, multiplayer is not only Gamespy. You can find opponents outside of Gamespy (e.g. on this forum) and play Direct IP. PBEM is also a very good alternative (maybe the best, not sure yet). If you survive the first 4000 years without dying of boredom, that is.
As for the features you requested:
- balanced starting positions: would really help, but how do you evaluate the strength of a starting position?
- recording statistics: Would be interesting but not sure how important it is. I think I don't understand what you would do with this information. Could you elaborate?
- proper recording of scores: It would be good to get a better indicator about the strength of a Civ within a particular game, that's for sure. I am not sure though that I could come up with a good formula. Maybe there shouldn't be a single "score" at all, rather a set of statistics (maybe that's what you mean with the above?). However, you are talking about the end score, I believe. I never played for scores. Maybe just because the scoring system is weak. I suspect though that people playing for scores are missing out on the spirit of Civ (though it's always possible that I am missing something  )
- automatic organizing of games including people of reasonably close skill levels: how would you know automatically who is reasonably close? IMHO the only way to decide this is to play it out. And even if you kick someone's ass in one game, how do you know it's not because you were lucky and he was not?
-stability: Well, what can I say. Maybe that this is not a feature at all, this is a must. I've had pretty good experience with 3 humans + 4 AI though. And I would really like to try with 4 or more humans.
- save games on a central server (to avoid edits or cheats): I am somewhat surprised that so many people are concerned about this but I guess I must be naive since, ... well, so many people are concerned about this.  Maybe you should check out this thread:
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...threadid=68730
and the CivII thread referenced there. Apparently the CivII folks came up with some method to catch and ban cheaters, I guess we could do the same or similar with Civ3.
- ability to see who's in the lobby, store buddy lists, etc. without having to use Gamespy: Which lobby? Gamespy is a (the?) lobby, nothing more, isn't it? I decided not to use Gamespy because I realized that I don't care who is in the lobby. You can't play Civ3 in a reasonable way with random people, as you point out very accurately. This forum seems to be a good place to find "good" people, whatever "good" means to you. You can also have a buddy list here, if I remember correctly, although I have never used it. My buddy list is in my head.
As for Civ3 MP becoming a glorified war game, yes, that's definitely a risk. Although I think it depends greatly on the personality and the skill level of the people who are playing and the game settings. I don't think you can win by war mongering against people who are at the same level as you, or on a continents or archipelago map, or if there are 4 AIs on Emperor level next to you.
__________________
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Did you know that in GalCiv, the AI makes you think you are playing against humans? Stop laughing, they mean it!!!
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December 8, 2002, 14:19
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#5
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Emperor
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: I live amongst the Red Sox Nation
Posts: 7,969
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i woudn't say i have given up, but i think more patches are needed to make it really playable in the way civ was meant to be played
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Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!
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December 24, 2002, 19:47
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#6
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by War4ever
i woudn't say i have given up, but i think more patches are needed to make it really playable in the way civ was meant to be played
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hi ,
its a general feeling , or you can read a book and try PDEM , ......
have a nice christmas day
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December 25, 2002, 04:46
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#7
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King
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: of Scotland
Posts: 1,383
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I was in a 3-player game (ping was 290) and the lag was 6 seconds at around 2000BC shortly after that the game froze for one of the players. He wasn't automatically kicked either, so the game froze for everyone.
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December 25, 2002, 04:51
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#8
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Emperor
Local Time: 22:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: up shyte creek without a paddle
Posts: 6,250
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I might have given up but we can't even buy the bloody game yet
__________________
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits
Hydey the no-limits man. :(
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December 25, 2002, 09:03
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#9
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Emperor
Local Time: 15:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Israel
Posts: 6,480
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I've given up. Well, it never worked for me in the first place anyway.
As Diss said, at least the PBEM option is working fine.
__________________
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.
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December 25, 2002, 11:48
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#10
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Eli
I've given up. Well, it never worked for me in the first place anyway.
As Diss said, at least the PBEM option is working fine.
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hi ,
well like some mentioned the other day "the grass grows faster" , ........
 at present some players are trying to setup an MP game with skynet , with its own server space , skynet has done this for countless other games and they tend to work a bit better when played there , at least there are no time out's , .....
more later when it works
have a nice day
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December 25, 2002, 20:34
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#11
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Prince
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 379
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My wife and I have tried a LAN Regicide game on a huge map. No lag to complain about, but everytime I went directly for an AI's capital and killed their regent, the game would hang for a minute while it changed all of that player's cities to rubble and removed their units. Then the game would drop my wife's connection.
The only solution was to take the majority of the AI's cities before going for the kill. I guees there's less for the game to update when most of the units and cities are gone.
Pretty lame though- Firaxis can do better.
The AI seems to be at a loss when playing this game form too. They just keep their regent in their capitol- no guessing involved where he might be hiding.
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December 25, 2002, 21:20
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#12
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Civ4: Colonization Content Editor
Local Time: 13:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 11,117
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I tried several times, but can't get a decent MP game. I don't like duels (that'd be the easiest but it's not civ as it was meant to be) and would like to play a game against 2-3 human opponents, but alas - either I find the people and the bloody game doesn't work, or I see invitations like "hya d00d w4nn4 play?", no thanks.
I'm close to give up online MP. PBEM works so far for me, although has issues too, oh well.
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December 26, 2002, 04:17
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#13
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King
Local Time: 13:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Insert banana to play...
Posts: 1,661
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Is the gamespy the stuff who comes along with PTW ?
If so i've done a few games, and I use to win a lot.
I always win on walkover. Cause I sit there for about 6 hours,
and the cowards give up or gets hungry, sleepy, etc.
But some games have been interesting, though.
Almost got beaten to, but he gave up when my berserks came.
Can we register our IP-somwhere for direct play?
__________________
My words are backed with hard coconuts.
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January 7, 2003, 07:28
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#14
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Chieftain
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 33
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January 7, 2003, 07:33
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#15
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Chieftain
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 33
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January 7, 2003, 07:40
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#16
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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Interesting.
I have 56k dial up (and realistic connetion of just 28k), and I have never had probelm starting the game.
It was only just laggy.
But playable.
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January 7, 2003, 18:39
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#17
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Settler
Local Time: 04:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 18
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I've about given up on multiplayer, i can't even get past the 1st page once the host launches into the game from the setup, with out crashes.
And it seems lately that even getting a connection is difficult (any realtion to Gamespy 1.2 release, i'd like to know).
Also have tried different video card (nvideo from ati), borrowed some memory (tought maybe had a bad stick), uninstalled, reinstalled on other drive ,but still have crash after crash after crash.
One thing I have heard is that Windows XP SP1 really does a number on DirectPlay for some other games, so maybe its screwing up the connectivity for Civ3 too?
Also DirectX9 is out, i tried that and suspect there may be some problems with Civ3 compatibility.
Meanwhile I did a test at work, and viola, go into and played a game on my 1st try.
All I know is that all my other games (and some are Directplay too) play fine, and CIV3 does not. Im not in the mood to spend a few hunder $$$ to get a $30 game to play.
PS
I have a pretty standard pc,
K7S5A (athalon thunderbird 1.2ghz)
640K Mem (and tried 256k of DDR too)
Ati Radeon 7200 (and tried Nvideo mx400)
SoundBlaster Card
Virus Scanner off
No Router/Gateway
No Firewall Software
Nothing Extraordinary.
If anybody else is on same Motherboard, and working let me know, I'd be interested.
__________________
================================================== ==
Hmm, play by email, will i actually live long enough to see the end of the game?
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January 8, 2003, 11:23
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#18
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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hi ,
has anyone else noticed how sometimes it goes more the less okay and then the next minute its like waiting five minutes and nothing happens , ....
have a nice day
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January 8, 2003, 13:01
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#19
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Emperor
Local Time: 09:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brasil
Posts: 3,958
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I never bothered to try the other MP modes (mainly because of my crappy connection), but PBEM and hotseat work fine for me. I just need more time to play.
__________________
'Yep, I've been drinking again.'
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January 10, 2003, 00:26
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#20
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Warlord
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England, UK
Posts: 107
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I have yet to receive PTW through the post so giving it up is not realistic!
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January 10, 2003, 07:26
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#21
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Warlord
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England, UK
Posts: 107
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January 11, 2003, 16:58
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#22
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Settler
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1
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Im About to give up because it just takes so long to play. Im Not really willing to play 3 hours. I could play a Single Player game in half that for the double the fun. Its just that playing Actual Humans draws me toward it.
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January 12, 2003, 15:52
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#23
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Deity
Local Time: 15:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 18,355
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Quote:
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Im About to give up because it just takes so long to play. Im Not really willing to play 3 hours. I could play a Single Player game in half that for the double the fun. Its just that playing Actual Humans draws me toward it.
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3 hours is actually little... long games are the point here.
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Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man
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January 12, 2003, 19:47
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#24
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King
Local Time: 13:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,121
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I expect it all depends on the upcoming (???) patch. If it does not solve the lagginess and some other major issues MP may die (or perhaps more accurate, never be born).
For the time being I have lots of fun with one to one games but even those are getting laggy sometimes and I am not sure if I can keep motivation up if there will be no new patch soon solving the major issues.
__________________
Franses (like Ramses).
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January 12, 2003, 20:09
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#25
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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There will be new patch.
They are working on it.
Nut, the big question is, will it solve MP.
I expet that some games will still stay laggy sometimes, but only playable laggy.
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January 13, 2003, 08:19
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#26
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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hi ,
it really cant get any worser then it is , ..... it can only improve , .....
panag > think positive , think positive , its only a matter of time , ....
well at least PBEM works more the less fine
have a nice day
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January 13, 2003, 17:06
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#27
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King
Local Time: 13:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,131
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I've pretty much given up on MP. I have a cable connection, and the fastest game I ever managed still lagged nearly a second every time I moved a unit. We started about 8 squares apart and I warrior rushed the other guy, but it took about half an hour to get to 2500BC...
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January 13, 2003, 18:41
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#28
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Posts: 3,218
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Hey I have similar amount of lag as you (half-second per unit) as you.
But I have 56k dial-up (which is, in my case, realistic connection of 36k).
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January 15, 2003, 16:44
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#29
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Settler
Local Time: 12:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4
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What I like about MP is that the playing dynamics are
actually level -- production, population, disorder...
I find myself second guessing AI advantages way too much on the solo games I play (usually monarch or emperor level). I'm more interested in playing the
game itself than playing to the AI.
If LAN lag/response is significantly better, I would
be interested in a Hollywood/Los Angeles live Civ
MP game. I know of at least one LAN/PC gaming
room -- 20+ computers...they cater to the first-person
shooter crowd, but that's all the more reason...
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January 16, 2003, 10:02
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#30
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:00
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Lost Angeles
What I like about MP is that the playing dynamics are
actually level -- production, population, disorder...
I find myself second guessing AI advantages way too much on the solo games I play (usually monarch or emperor level). I'm more interested in playing the
game itself than playing to the AI.
If LAN lag/response is significantly better, I would
be interested in a Hollywood/Los Angeles live Civ
MP game. I know of at least one LAN/PC gaming
room -- 20+ computers...they cater to the first-person
shooter crowd, but that's all the more reason...
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hi ,
 , some one in germany does the same , he puts games together ones a month in a big room , maybe this would / could be a solution until a patch is released , ..... its also a great way to get people together
have a nice day
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