Who are the Wimps of CIV3?

Mad Bomber · December 4, 2002, 03:05

We all know that the Persians and the Germans are a royal pain but who do you find to be a bit of a pushover in CIV 3?

I have 3 CIVs that I really do not fear at all:

The Zulu:

UU is a 1.2.2 Nice if you are defending against a hoard but not exactly the stuff to send a shiver in my back and quaking in my boots. The expansionist trait reduces the UU's only strong trait and the military trait is lost on a defensive UU.

The Aztec's:

I have heard of the mighty Jag Warrior rush and in MP it might catch the unaware builder off guard but in the hands of the AI the UU is complete garbage. Again the CIV traits do nothing to enhance this civ's UU. Also as an American flagged CIV you can be sure you will start off with Jungle nearby.

The English:

Probably have the worst UU in the game and their traits are Commercial and iExpansionist. One is useful early in the game and the other does not shine until the industrial age, but usually they are wiped out by other civ's by then.

I have omited the Germans and the Persians from the poll, but if you wish you can list reasons why these civ's are pushovers as well. Also if you have any from PTW please include them as well.

The Pioneer · December 4, 2002, 03:32

I have no problem with the Germans or the Persians. I dislike the Zulus for some reason they seem to be bullying me all the time. Depending on the level I play that may be scary or funny

!

So long...

statusperfect · December 4, 2002, 05:06

American flagged civs don't automatically start in jungle.

Mad Bomber · December 4, 2002, 10:30

Status:

No its not automatic but they do get way more jungle starts than a civ flagged as European or Med.

punkbass2000 · December 4, 2002, 10:46

I vote for me

Elowan · December 4, 2002, 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by punkbass2000
I vote for me

Hey! That was my choice!

Mad Bomber · December 4, 2002, 11:26

Quote:

Originally posted by punkbass2000
I vote for me

Forgot to put the Hu-man in the poll but I didn't expect the AI's to vote, my apologies Punkbass and Elowan

Arrian · December 4, 2002, 12:03

Pushovers...

Well, a lot of this depends on the when and where.

Consistent pushovers: England, India

The Zulu are usually garbage, but killing them isn't easy until you have Knights.

The Aztecs are often weak, because as you point out the AI doesn't know what to do with Jags, but I've seen pretty strong Aztec empires.

The Romans without iron are total garbage. With it, however, they are powerful.

The Japanese are often pushovers for me when I play China, but that's because I hit them in the ancient age. Trying to kill them when they have Samurai isn't a lot of fun.

To be honest, I like killing religious civs, as more of their cities will have culture and will thus not auto-raze. Non-industrious civs tend to be weaker at first, so my favorite targets combine religious with anything BUT industrious:

India (probably Spain too)
Iroquois (probably Arabs too)
Japan
Aztecs
Babylon

The Aztecs and Babs can be tougher due to their UU's. The Babs can be a real *****, actually, if the terrain is rough. If you have flat ground, you can horseman rush them to death before their GA production churns out huge numbers of those tough little bowmen.

The Iroquois are clearly a major worry if they get MWs. I had to fight a MW-enabled Iroquois empire in what was probably my best game to date (Egypt, Emperor, 1.29) and it hurt badly. It was all I could do to take 2 cities and fend them off - I had swords and WCs. Without horses - or before they can hook them up, they're weak and probably have lots of tech you can extort.

Industrious civs, particularly those who are not still in expansion mode, can be tougher. If you catch them still settler/spear pumping, though, all they have done is build you an empire. America is great for that.

-Arrian

punkbass2000 · December 4, 2002, 12:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

Forgot to put the Hu-man in the poll but I didn't expect the AI's to vote, my apologies Punkbass and Elowan

Seriously, when I first saw the title from the General Forum, that was what I was expecting.

Arrian · December 4, 2002, 12:08

Quote:

"Flash isn't here [to receive the save file], BetaHound doesnt know how to use a keyboard and I have to go in 5 minutes." - The C3PTWDG, running at full capacity. It's worse than we predicted

Ain't that the effin' truth. Go kill some effin' bears to appease the Civ gods.

-Arrian

Traelin · December 4, 2002, 13:05

I voted for India, hands down. What wusses. I'd say the Americans are too, but that's only because I've never seen them have any muscles to flex in my games (unless I play them, of course).

Which happened only once.

TacticalGrace · December 4, 2002, 13:26

I've ramped up the power of the Man O'War in my games.

result: the english still suck.

DrSpike · December 4, 2002, 15:04

India. Gandhi is a big girl's blouse.

The diplomat · December 4, 2002, 15:12

The english of course. I also find the Americans to be big pushovers, especially if you are playing the Persians. Of course if you are playing the Persians with the mighty Immortal, I guess almost everyone is a push-over!

:

ChaotikVisions · December 4, 2002, 18:22

India usually is for me. Even when they build up a large empire they never seem able to wage war effectively. I've annexed them in many of the games i've played. They usually get foolish and think they can take me on for some reason.

Cyclotron · December 4, 2002, 18:48

England definitly tops the list for me. In my games, they always get into way more wars then they can handle and end up falling like a stack of cards. Besides, their UU is hardly fearsome.

statusperfect · December 4, 2002, 19:07

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7
England definitly tops the list for me. In my games, they always get into way more wars then they can handle and end up falling like a stack of cards. Besides, their UU is hardly fearsome.

No UU is fearsome in the hands of an AI.

Cyclotron · December 4, 2002, 19:12

I don't have PTW, but I'm willing to bet it's not any more fearsome in human hands.

Theseus · December 4, 2002, 21:13

England... it's the only AI civ that I have NEVER seen achieve a strong position.

Brutus66 · December 4, 2002, 22:41

Quote:

The English

Finally, BombThrower, er I mean Mad Bomber, something we can agree on.

Shame too...my favorite civ...sob...

Aeson · December 5, 2002, 00:27

England's traits are both more useful on larger maps. I've seen them get very powerful on Huge maps. Overall they are the weakest civ though.

The Indians are usually a pain for me, because you can't just cut off their Iron and expect a cakewalk like most other AI. I almost always try to hit them before Chivalry, or leave them around for later.

The Zulu are always nasty in my games. Sometimes I think it would be best to give them Iron and some money to upgrade those Impi. They are certainly my least favorite neighbor, Germany a close second. The Ancient and early Middle ages are so important, and those two can always be counted upon to just slow things down for the player.

MiloMilo · December 5, 2002, 03:57

Who's a pushover when I hit them? Well everyone, right?

I read the question as, who is usually a pushover independent of the human player's actions? The easiest way to check this is to look at that second continent when you discover navigation.

For me, strangely enough, the English and Indians are almost always quite strong. The Americans, Chinese, and Babylonians are the pushovers. This surely has a lot to do with map size: I always play on large maps.

Alex · December 5, 2002, 06:37

England. In my games, they are usually very weak and a lot of times I've seen them being wiped out by another AI civ.

Pyrodrew · December 5, 2002, 15:26

Zulus are no pushovers in the ancient age, so they stay ok.

The biggest pushover is England. Even India has a better UU (and India's UU isn't that great), especially since it has a longer lifespan from being obsolete than England. England also has 'Naval Units' on "Build Often", which makes her land forces/structures weaker than they should be & since naval military units in the hands of the AI is near useless, so such is England.

statusperfect · December 5, 2002, 17:46

Quote:

Originally posted by cyclotron7
I don't have PTW, but I'm willing to bet it's not any more fearsome in human hands.

You haven't seen it in my hands, baby

joncnunn · December 5, 2002, 18:02

I've rarely seen England survive a game their present in, so I'm voting for them as complete wimps.

Lord Merciless · December 5, 2002, 19:46

English, followed by Aztecs and Zulus. The AI doesn't know how to use most UUs effectively. Legionaries and Immortals are the only exception.

Mad Bomber · December 6, 2002, 01:10

Thanks for the replies. The one thing that shocks me so far is India having so many votes. I kind of like their UU, a knight unit with no resources needed is nice and I like their traits as well, can anyone comment on why India is a wimpy civ, is it Ghandi? What is the deal with India?

Lord Merciless · December 6, 2002, 01:54

I disagree on India being a wimpy civ. They are not aggressive, but they are also hard to take on. First, you can't play the denial of resources to cut their UU production. Second, India tends to be well built up and can mobilize large forces if need be.

CerberusIV · December 6, 2002, 07:06

I usually see the Babylonians go under, probably because they often start next to the Persians. Their problem is that they are not very aggressive and their UU is obselete by the end of the expansion phase when the serious wars start. Obviously a minority view though from the poll results.

I don't find the Indians much opposition. I used to play the Japanese a lot and would regularly crush them with Samurai (much better than War Elephants).

I recently finished a game where the English were the only civ left apart from my Japanese. They started on the second continent with the Russians and the Germans, wiped out the Germans early on and were massively ahead of the Russians before my marines took and razed the last (undefended!) Russian city.

I thought I could get domination without taking on the English but their population was too big. Next time!