American Sports Discussion (ie, Apolyton US Sports Bar) - Page 11

Drake Tungsten · December 17, 2002, 12:18

Quote:

Great week of football and after realizing that Baltimore is 7-7 and COULD STILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS

You gotta love the thrilling and important NFL regular season. I hope college football becomes just like it.

SlowwHand · December 17, 2002, 12:42

What do you do if you're running the Zoo that is Bengal football?

Two words. Herschel Walker. No, no. Not talking him out of retirement, trading Dillon for draft picks.
But to who? Texas, maybe ? They seem to have a decent defense in the works. A young QB.
So maybe Cincinnati trades their 2nd for Texas' 1st, their 3rd for Texas 2nd, and so on as far as they can take it ?

Dis · December 17, 2002, 14:18

They should win with Dillon. Would it kill them to draft an offensive line worth a ****? Dillon is their best hope. Just concentrate on an Offensive line, a good tight end, recievers, and a good QB (with all new coaches as well) and then at least they can put up some points. Defense can wait till later.

SlowwHand · December 17, 2002, 14:37

The Bengals have too many holes. Dillon is good, but he can't be the sole horse, just as Walker couldn't be.
Defense? Defense can't wait. That's what happened to them so far, and wasted Dillon.
Nope. Only choice. Trade him, gather picks, improve the whole team, as able.

Imran Siddiqui · December 17, 2002, 17:04

The Braves retool:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1217/1478382.html

They trade Damian Moss and minor leaguer Manuel Mateo for Russ Ortiz of the Giants. And sign Paul Byrd.

I think trading Moss is a major mistake. He's the next Maddux in my mind. Ortiz is good, but Moss will be great.

I wonder if Paul Byrd is going to be as good as he was last year. I'm not sure if he is.

So the Braves rotation is NOW:
Maddux
Hampton
Ortiz
Millwood
Byrd

Not bad, but not Glavine and Maddux

.

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Quote:

You gotta love the thrilling and important NFL regular season. I hope college football becomes just like it.

I know you are being sarcastic, but I have to agree with the statement! 14 out of the 16 teams in the AFC can get a playoff spot!! Only Houston and Cincy are out of it! And over in the NFC you have 3 teams fighting for home field advantage, which will determine who probably goes to the SuperBowl. How much more exciting can it get?!

I'll take this over college football anyday!

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Quote:

They should win with Dillon. Would it kill them to draft an offensive line worth a ****? Dillon is their best hope. Just concentrate on an Offensive line, a good tight end, recievers, and a good QB (with all new coaches as well) and then at least they can put up some points. Defense can wait till later.

Exactly!! Forget about Defense or even drafting Palmer this year. Trade the 1st pick down (like San Diego did a few years back) and keep trading down. Get a bunch of GOOD offensive linemen. A good OL can cure a lot of things.

SlowwHand · December 17, 2002, 17:12

Trade down. You watch too much Jerry Jones.

Who do you think is the leading rusher over the last 3 years, cumulative?

Imran Siddiqui · December 17, 2002, 17:23

Quote:

Trade down. You watch too much Jerry Jones.

No, I watch too much Bill Walsh

.

That's how the 49ers got that dynasty. Walsh traded down about 4 times and got something like 13 picks in 7 rounds in 1979 and picked a LOT of great players in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

The Bengals need to do that with the pick. I'm sure the Bears would like to pick Palmer with the first pick

.

SlowwHand · December 17, 2002, 17:43

Well. since you want to argue opinions instead of answering question...

Curtis Martin

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 17, 2002, 18:12

Imran,

Did you hear something I didn't. Maddux is still up in the air at present, no? Lot of talk that his game may be dropping off at a more precipitous rate than Glavine's due to his relatively poor conditioing efforts combined with aging process.

True Glavine stunk up the joint in the last part of the season and post season but..... the knock is out 'gainst Maddux.

Great point on the excitement of the regular NFL season and how it means nothing in comparison to the all important NCAA regular season.

JohnT · December 17, 2002, 18:39

Both pitchers are getting on in years, and it is likely that neither can last a full season anymore. I truly hope that Smoltz understands that his ticket to the Hall of Fame lies with him remaining a closer - 4 or 5 more years of 40+ saves (and maybe one more Cy Young) gives him quite a career: 163 wins, 118 loss, and 265 saves.

I want Glavine to reach 300, but I hope he does so just over the length of his contract - he needs 56, so give him 14 wins a year and that'll do it.

I think Maddux is already in the Hall, especially with only 27 wins needed for 300. His season W-L record hasn't been below .500 since 1987 - a span of 15 straight years! By the way, he is in arbitration with the Braves along with a number of players.

My Georgia Southern Eagles lost their game.

The Falcons are sucking it up.

Miami beat Va-Tech, leaving my Dawgs to play for #2.

God must be displeased with me.

FSU just sacked Chris Rix for the Sugar Bowl for curfew violations, meaning that they are starting their #3 quarterback. I think he is gone for the game.

Imran Siddiqui · December 17, 2002, 22:47

Quote:

FSU just sacked Chris Rix for the Sugar Bowl for curfew violations

Actually it was for missing a final. I wonder how you do that?

Quote:

Great point on the excitement of the regular NFL season and how it means nothing in comparison to the all important NCAA regular season.

I was saying the NFL regular season was better than the NCAA regular season this year. The season obviously means something when there are only 6 spots and 13 teams vying for those spots this late in the year (in the AFC).

Quote:

Did you hear something I didn't. Maddux is still up in the air at present, no?

Apparently it seems Maddux is very close to re-signing with Atlanta.

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WSU'S PRICE IS GOING TO 'BAMA

http://espn.go.com/ncf/bowls02/s/ros...takesbama.html

WSU's coach is taking the vacant spot at Alabama. Good choice? Bad choice? Obviously both are good teams, but WSU is his team, while 'Bama is still Franchione's team.

Tuberski · December 17, 2002, 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

WSU'S PRICE IS GOING TO 'BAMA

WSU's coach is taking the vacant spot at Alabama. Good choice? Bad choice? Obviously both are good teams, but WSU is his team, while 'Bama is still Franchione's team.

Funny you should mention that, Mike price used to coach football a Weber State University in my hometown of Ogden, Utah.

Everytime I see WSU and Mike Price, it time warps me to the '80's.

(Of course, Back then it was Weber State College)

ACK!

Vlad Antlerkov · December 17, 2002, 23:25

Speaking of the Hall, here's the Veterans' Committee ballot for this year:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho...candidates.htm

I'd vote for Minnie Minoso, Ron Santo, and Joe Torre for players, and Whitey Herzog for non-players.

As for Greg Maddux, he's a lock for a first-ballot induction (unless he has the horrible bad luck of being eligible the same year as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens).

I'm rooting for Clemens to notch #300, preferably AGAINST the Yankees.

Imran Siddiqui · December 17, 2002, 23:44

In the Vet's ballot:

Thurman Munson
Don Newcombe
Joe Torre
Bobby Bonds
(Mickey Lolich just misses out)

NON-PLAYERS:

August Busch, Jr.
Whitey Herzog
Marvin Miller
Walter O'Malley

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 18, 2002, 00:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I was saying the NFL regular season was better than the NCAA regular season this year. The season obviously means something when there are only 6 spots and 13 teams vying for those spots this late in the year (in the AFC).

Sorry my sarcasm doesn't translate well.

I of course knew that you meant the NFL has a meaningful regular season and agree whole heartedly. My position is the same as yours, Ming, etal (with only a handful of diehard traditionalists not seeing the light) on the whole NCAA playoff issues if you recall.

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 18, 2002, 00:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

FSU just sacked Chris Rix for the Sugar Bowl for curfew violations

Actually it was for missing a final. I wonder how you do that?

Apparently his grad student was sick that day.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2002, 00:25

Quote:

Sorry my sarcasm doesn't translate well.

Ah, the problems of the web

. No harm, no foul.

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Apparently his grad student was sick that day.

Isn't Rix a senior too? What the Hell was he thinking? I mean, he knows that he's the starter now!

JohnT · December 18, 2002, 00:31

Players:

Curt Flood
Bobby Bonds
Gil Hodges

Composite:

Marvin Miller
Whitey Herzog
Walter O'Malley

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2002, 00:43

Miller has to go in, doesn't he? Whether good or bad he made the MLBPA as strong as it is.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2002, 01:58

Rix missed his exam because he overslept!

LOLOL

Dis · December 18, 2002, 22:29

I haven't been keeping up so this may have been mentioned.

I think Philadelphia has a QB controversy. If I were coach I wouldn't put Donavan McNabb back in.

They are doing better without him.

Imran Siddiqui · December 18, 2002, 22:41

Naw, I think McNabb will start when he comes back.

--

Oh, so the trial for Bonds' 73rd HR is over and the judge said sell the ball and split the proceeds among both of them. Wow... a good trial result!

Tuberski · December 18, 2002, 22:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
I haven't been keeping up so this may have been mentioned.

I think Philadelphia has a QB controversy. If I were coach I wouldn't put Donavan McNabb back in.

They are doing better without him.

This isn't the same as the Warner-Bulger deal in St. Louis. It's not the backup QB that is making the difference in Philly, it's playing like a team, which will only help when McNabb returns.

ACK!

H Tower · December 20, 2002, 23:51

Bump! The Border War tommorow. #12 Illinois vs. #10 Missouri in the "neutral" Kiehl center in St. Louis. One of my roommates stood in line for 6 hours to get a ticket for that game...

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 21, 2002, 00:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Rix missed his exam because he overslept!

LOLOL

This just in from FSU.

It was two exams he "slept" through.

Allegations abound on a gambling ring being busted. Too preliminary at this point to know if players were involved but police are pressuring suspects to name names including players.......hmmmm......

Was McPherson's blank check done simply to cover his gambling debts?????

Inquiring minds want to know?

(I call for Bobby Bowden to resign immediately. This way JoePa can step down as well and retain his winningest Coach status. )

JohnT · December 21, 2002, 17:48

Braves save $10 million by trading Millwood for some catcher. What I don't understand is, if you're going to dump him, why not dump him in the AL and not in your own division? Kelly Ligtenberg wasn't offered a contract either.

sigh

But... we did get 17 game winner Paul Byrd and Russ Ortiz, so it's not as if we've been fire-selling only. Regardless, the NL East is going to be an interesting division to watch this upcoming season - it might be the best race of the year.

But probably not, as the Mets collapse again and the Phillies hang on through August, only to slowly let it slip away.

Imran Siddiqui · December 21, 2002, 17:49

Hey guys:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=71628

And I dunno if Byrd and Ortiz are going to win as many games again

.

JohnT · December 21, 2002, 17:52

I'll just cut 'n paste my comments to that thread and delete them from this one. Sorry 'bout that.

But don't open a new thread until the other is closed!!!!

Dis · December 22, 2002, 02:53

I want to use this space to talk about running/scrambling QB's. I'd like to hear you guy's thoughts.

Thinking back to the last few superbowls, you don't see a lot of them make it to the superbowl or win a superbowl. New England- Tom Brady, Baltimore- Trent Dilfer, St. Louis- Kurt Warner, Denver- John Elway, Green Bay- Brett Favre, San Fransisco- Steve Young, Dallas- Troy Aikman. All great passers (except maybe Trent Dilfer- I can't explain how they won the superbowl

). No doubt running/scrambling QB's lead good teams. And win a lot of games. But they are missing something. Fact is you still have to be a decent passer and have a good passing game to win a superbowl. Steve Young may have been a scrambler but he was a very, very accurate passer.

Look at Randal Cunningham. He was close being 1 field goal away from a superbowl. Gary Anderson missed after being so accurate that year (he got the game winner today though

). But I still think Denver would have stomped his team. Dante Culpepper isn't much better. Michael Vick will never go anywhere until they get some good recievers and have a strong passing game.

These thoughts came about because of Philadelphia's performance of late. They are doing better without Donavan McNabb. Now you can say the team has picked up their game to compensate for their fallen QB. But for 5 games? I have never heard of a team elevating their game for that long. Fact is I think they have a better shot of winning a superbowl with A.J. Feeley.

Of all of them Aaron Brooks is my favourite. If it weren't for the crappy New Orleans defense they might actually have a shot at a superbowl. The reason why I like Aaron Brooks is of all the runner/scrambling QB's in the game today I think he is the best passer. Passing should always be the reason to pickup a QB not running.

Ogie Oglethorpe · December 22, 2002, 23:30

Hmmm....

On the other side of the coin the most prolific pocket quarterback Dan Marino never had the balanced offense that allowed a run game to wear out an opposing defense. As a consequence you could see the games unfold in typical fashion. Miami defense would be on the field too long and would be tired, Opposing teams scores late causing the need for a Miami miracle led by Dan the Man.

(Ok I've really digressed)

Running quarterbacks absolutely are the thing. That means tho' that the running quarterback must first and foremost be accurate and be able to go through his read progression properly first. Pass first then run. The threat of run will normally cause D-coordinators to have a linebacker to spy him (if he is any good) thus normally allowing a dump off to a RB out of the back field.

All in all much more difficult to defense and will continue to be increasingly more and more effective.

The only thing that concerns me is the running QB has the same tendency to be injured that a pocket QB has (i.e. a blind side blitz) but then also has the chance of injury when running downfield. I worry that the trend of running QB might increase the amount of QB injuries (ala Young, McNabb, Cunnigham was never healthy, McNair was dinged up, Vick this year). it just seems to me that the running QB is much more susceptible to injury and if you have all your eggs in a Mike Vick-like basket you may be asking for trouble.