American Sports Discussion (ie, Apolyton US Sports Bar)

[Ming]

No.. I understand. I would like to see TWO tries by both teams before a coin flip is used. Let the home team kick off the first time. If both teams score a touchdown... field goal... or nothing, do it again. If they are still tied, then use a coin flip and go to sudden death.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ugh, I'd hate that system.

Do it like a real game, have a coin flip. The team that wins decides kick, and then both teams have at least one go and if still tied then they keep playing, sudden death.

No OT part 1 and OT part 2.

[Guynemer]

I don't see why the NFL couldn't go to a modified college overtime, played in the standard NFL way, only with each team getting an equal number of possessions. Just think of them as extra innings.



Anyway, the following teams have qualified for the First Annual Guynemer's Gamecube NCAA Football Championship Tournament, of GGNCAAFCT for short.

Florida State, ACC Champions
Miami, Big East Champions
Ohio State, Big Ten Champions
Texas Christian, Conference USA Champions
Colorado State, Mountain West Champions
North Texas, Sun Belt Champions
Boise State, WAC Champions

Four conference championships are still up-for-grabs, to be decided this afternoon:
Big Twelve (Colorado vs. Oklahoma)
MAC (Marshall vs. Toledo)
SEC (Georgia vs. Arkansas)
Pac Ten (UCLA vs. Washington State, with USC becoming champions with a UCLA win, Wazzou if they beat the Bruins)

The following teams have qualified for wild-card "consideration", having nine wins against Div I-A teams:

ACC--Maryland (NC State beat two non-Div I-A schools en route to a 10 win season)

Big 12--Oklahoma, Colorado, Texas (See NC State re: Kansas State)

Big East--Virginia Tech (West Virginia beat one non-Div I-A school en route to a 9 win season)

Big Ten--Iowa, Michigan, Penn State

Conference USA--nobody

Independents--Notre Dame (Southern Florida beat two non-Div I-A schools en route to a 9 win season)

MAC--nobody (Marshall, Toledo, and Bowling Green--see West Virginia)

Mountain West--nobody

Pac-10--USC (If Wazzou beats UCLA, they are conference champs; if they lose, USC is conference champs, and Wazzou does not qualify for wild-card consideration for the same reason as West Virginia and the MAC teams)

SEC--Georgia, Arkansas (Alabama does not qualify due to NCAA sanctions; however, victories against 'Bama will count as wins against other wild-card contenders)

Sun Belt--nobody

WAC--Hawaii (IF they win tonight; otherwise, see West Virginia, MAC teams, Wazzou...)

So, to sum up, these are the potential wild cards:
Maryland, Oklahoma, Colorado, Texas, Virginia Tech, Iowa, Michigan, Penn State, Notre Dame, Georgia, Arkansas, USC, Hawaii. The wild card slot will go to the team with the most victories against conference champions and other potential wild cards (and Alabama).

Right now, before today's games, it stands thus:
Maryland--0
Oklahoma--3 (Alabama, Colorado, Texas; takes Big 12 Championship and automatic berth with another victory over Colrado today.)
Colorado--0 (Takes Big 12 Championship and automatic berth with victory over Oklahoma today.)
Texas--1 (North Texas)
Virginia Tech--currently 0, potentially 1 or 2 (Pending game vs. Miami today, and MAC Championship, having beat Marshall.)
Iowa--2 (Michigan, Penn State)
Michigan--1 (Penn State)
Penn State--0
Notre Dame--3 (Maryland, Michigan, Florida State)
USC--2 (Colorado, Notre Dame)
Georgia--1 (Alabama; takes SEC berth with victory over Arkansas today.)
Arkansas--1 (Boise State; takes SEC berth with victory over Georgia today.)
Hawaii--0

So it comes to this: if Oklahoma beats Colorado today, Oklahoma is Big 12 Champ and Notre Dame is the wild card. However, if Colorado wins today, Oklahoma and Notre Dame both have three victories against the best of the best. So, we go to victories against teams with at least 8 Div I-A wins...

Oklahoma--4 ('Bama, Texas, Colorado, Texas Tech--Southern Florida only had 7 Div I-A wins)
Notre Dame--5 (Maryland, Michigan, Florida State, Pittsburgh, Air Force)

No matter what happens today, Notre Dame has clinched the wild card.

One last summary-----------------------------------
These are the twelve teams in the GGNCAAFCT:

Florida State
Miami
Ohio State
TCU
Colorado State
North Texas
Boise State
Notre Dame (wildcard)
Winner of Colorado vs. Oklahoma
Winner of Marshall vs. Toledo
Winner of Georgia vs. Arkansas
Washington State if they beat UCLA; if not, USC

Seeding will be based on average of final poll ranking. Early prediction: North Texas will be #12.

First round games will be at the Outback Bowl, Liberty Bowl, Holiday Bowl, and the Alamo Bowl. Second round games will be at the Rose Bowl (hosting the #1 team), CapitalOne Bowl, Gator Bowl, and the Cotton Bowl. The Orange and Sugar Bowls are the semifinals; the championship is the Fiesta Bowl.

[Ming]

[Guynemer]

mmmmmkay.......

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hey, I like the format .

At least this is here and not in the other thread infected by BCS apologists .

[Guynemer]

Ahhh, Imran. You are living proof that some Republicans actually do have brains.

Go North Texas! :P

[Imran Siddiqui]

Same to you with respect to leftists having brains .

Though I doubt North Texas will beat Miami in the first game (I assume the Hurricane will be ranked #1) .

[reismark]

Sorry, Guy, but I see some flaws in your system too. Critics would howl at you for including a Notre Dame team that some would think was a bit overrated and excluding a USC team (WSU beat UCLA today) that not only destroyed ND but had the same record as ND against a tougher schedule.

Try expanding the pool to sixteen teams and getting some of those other deserving wild-card entrants in (like USC and an *extremely* underrated Iowa squad) and trash those sissy byes.

[JohnT]

Well, the Dogs won convincingly, so that prayer was answered, but Miami also won (not so convincingly though - I'm predicting OSU is gonna take 'em) so Georgia is left for playing for #2. Not too shabby, and a quality end to the season, but if we could just have the Florida game back. Hell, if we could get that damned personal foul back!

Man, I'd rather have USC then Florida State. We'd have a better shot against FSU, but I want the better team. Here's hoping!!! :fingerscrossed: On the other hand, USC-OK isn't a shabby game either.

Maddux, Kent, and Clemens were offered arbitration today, along with Chuck Finley, who is notable for having married Tawny Kitean.

Though she's kind of nasty nowadays.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by reismark
Sorry, Guy, but I see some flaws in your system too. Critics would howl at you for including a Notre Dame team that some would think was a bit overrated and excluding a USC team (WSU beat UCLA today) that not only destroyed ND but had the same record as ND against a tougher schedule.

Try expanding the pool to sixteen teams and getting some of those other deserving wild-card entrants in (like USC and an *extremely* underrated Iowa squad) and trash those sissy byes.

Well, rather than carry on the same argument in two separate threads, I'll refer you to the BCS thread. Suffice it to say that I hate the idea of wild cards; the only reason I have even one in this system is because there are independants. I also hate the idea of arbitrary judgments, polls, and computer rankings deciding anything of import; thus, I look at wins against top-flight competition, and Notre Dame has more of those than anyone else, whether you or I like it or not (and, believe you me, I don't).

But, I suppose I'm not completely against the idea of four more wildcards, as long as I'm forced to have the one as it is. That would bring in Iowa and USC, and leave the other two slots for Texas, Michigan, Virginia Tech, or Arkansas. Too tired and lazy to figure out who'd win the tiebreaker in that one right now; if they were to get one of those slots, Texas ought to thank their lucky stars that North Texas won the Sun Belt.

[Imran Siddiqui]

For those 'traditionalists' backing the BCS.... there is a BIG chance that the Rose Bowl WILL NOT have Pac 10 vs. the Big 10. If you are going to have bowl games, this is inexcusable!

Another black mark for the B(C)S.

[JohnT]

Who cares about the Rose Bowl? To me, the Rose Bowl has been that game with those two conferences I can't be arsed to learn about.

My wife and I were discussing yesterday and she wanted to know what were the four "big" New Years Day bowl games that existed long before this BCS ruined that system. I came up with Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Cotton, but I'm having doubts as to whether that is correct. I could look it up, but why, when I can ask such a learned group as this bunch?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
For those 'traditionalists' backing the BCS.... there is a BIG chance that the Rose Bowl WILL NOT have Pac 10 vs. the Big 10. If you are going to have bowl games, this is inexcusable!

Another black mark for the B(C)S.

Imran, supporting the BCS is not a traditionalist belief.

Go Falcons!!!!!!!!!! May you be Vicktorious today against Tampa Bay!

[JohnT]

So, who should win the Heisman? Who will win the Heisman?

Should: Byron Leftwich, Marshall.
Will: Larry Johnson, Penn St.
#2: Carson Palmer, USC.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, supporting the BCS is not a traditionalist belief.

I was refering to the other thread, in which Drake called himself a 'traditionalist' and backed the BCS (that is why traditionalist was in quotes). I was mocking him .

came up with Rose, Sugar, Orange, and Cotton

You are correct. The Fiesta Bowl was not in the same league with the Rose, Sugar, and Orange beforehand, and the Cotton was much more important. I'm not sure why that changes, but maybe because the Cotton Bowl refused to play ball with the BCS in the beginning?

So, who should win the Heisman? Who will win the Heisman?

Should: Carson Palmer, USC
Will: Willis McGahee, Mia

[SlowwHand]

Correct. Rose, Sugar, Orange, Cotton.

[Sprayber]

Al Davis still reserves the right to move the Raiders back to LA. He still consideres it his territory Remember LA was trying hard to get the expansion team which went to Houston. Besides, like Imran said, everything is nice and tidy as far as conference placement goes. Don't expect any rocking of the boat for a while.

[reismark]

The BCS bowls are thus:

Fiesta: Miami v. Ohio State
Orange: Iowa v. USC
Sugar: Georgia v. Florida State
Rose: Washington State v. Oklahoma

While Oklahoma in the Rose stands out like a very sore thumb, I can't deny that we've got great matchups on our hands. All except for the Sugar have the potential to really rock the casbah.

[Drake Tungsten]

I was refering to the other thread, in which Drake called himself a 'traditionalist' and backed the BCS (that is why traditionalist was in quotes). I was mocking him

It's sad that you've been reduced to mocking me on a completely different thread. You don't have to stoop to this level just because you got schooled in the BCS debate. Go back to the BCS thread and agree with everything Ming says; it's your only hope of redeeming yourself.

I'm not sure why that changes, but maybe because the Cotton Bowl refused to play ball with the BCS in the beginning?

The main reason the Cotton Bowl is no longer in the top four is because it has terrible facilities and terrible ratings. The Cotton Bowl itself is a shithole and the Cotton Bowl game always had horrible ratings because of its early morning kickoff time. It got by on tradition for a long time, but they finally dumped it for the BCS.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oklahoma and Iowa should be switched, and a deal should have been worked out.

Btw, the BCS bowls placing must have been the worst secret ever! Basically people were saying last week if Miami, Washington State, and Georgia won (which wasn't too hard to go out on a limb about), the seeding would be like it is.

Though I can imagine the Rose Bowl is pissed off. If you are going to keep the bowls, at least have the Rose Bowl keep the Pac 10 v Big 10.

The best way to prevent this next time? Playoff

[Imran Siddiqui]

You don't have to stoop to this level just because you got schooled in the BCS debate.

Don't you mean the other way around, Mr 'sanctity of the regular season' boy. I've already established that you don't really care for the regular season for Bowling Green and Marshall. You are simply backtracking and making yourself look foolish and silly.

[JohnT]

Georgia could still end up being #2 in the country - not bad at all.

Falcons got toasted today. Bucs have our number, that's for sure.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, I'm the last post on the BCS thread anyway.

The only thing I learned there was that those that back the BCS are more idiotic than I thought possible.

Kinda sounds like those people who are against Instant Replay to preserve the sanctaty of the officiating .

Regular season doesn't matter anyway. When USC plays OSU and Iowa plays Washington State in regular season, then it means something. Otherwise, without a playoff it is totally bushleague.

[Drake Tungsten]

I've already established that you don't really care for the regular season for Bowling Green and Marshall.

Sure you have.

I've said plenty of times that I would give Marshall and Bowling Green some respect if they would play a quality schedule, but you seem to ignore that.

You are simply backtracking and making yourself look foolish and silly.

This coming from the man who claims that the BCS didn't work this year.



You're lucky Ming is around or your side would've been beaten a long time ago.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I've said plenty of times that I would give Marshall and Bowling Green some respect if they would play a quality schedule, but you seem to ignore that.

So the regular season only matters if you play a quality schedule? OH!

This coming from the man who claims that the BCS didn't work this year.

No, and it will never work. I don't remember OSU playing Iowa, Georgia or USC. So no, the BCS did not work. The two best teams aren't playing against each other, because I don't believe that OSU is the 2nd best team in the country and even though they are undefeated you cannot prove they are better than Georgia (OSU hasn't played Florida) or Iowa (OSU hasn't played Iowa State).

You're lucky Ming is around or your side would've been beaten a long time ago.

You mean as opposed to your side getting beaten on page 1 of the other thread?

--

There are only valid ways of going about college football. The traditionalist approach, where the Bowls are two conferences facing each other and the national champion is simply accepted as a subjective determination.

OR

A playoff, consisting of at least 4 teams to determine a true national champion.

The BCS is just that without the C: BS. Having two subjectively ranked teams play each other for the national championship and then declaring that there is no discussion after that is just silly and stupid. The BCS sucks and will never work, and never has worked.

[Drake Tungsten]

So the regular season only matters if you play a quality schedule? OH!

Of course. I've said this several times. Why would a quality schedule not be a requirement?

The BCS is just that without the C: BS.

You're so clever.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course. I've said this several times. Why would a quality schedule not be a requirement?

Because, obviously, the regular season for WAC teams doesn't matter, because they will NEVER have the strength of schedule needed, because their conference is so weak.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by JohnT
So, who should win the Heisman? Who will win the Heisman?

Should: Byron Leftwich, Marshall.
Will: Larry Johnson, Penn St.

Are you saying that Johnson shouldn't win the Heisman? He got 270 yards in a half! He's a mother****ing Walter Payton!

Of course he's gonna get drafted by some dumb team like the Seahawks and then he's gonna suck.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why would the Seahawks draft him when they have Shaun Alexander?