Why are Yang and Miriam such buttheads?

D4everman · June 17, 2000, 07:57

I really wish I had Alien Crossfire, but alas, being here on a military post in a foreign country, its hard to get the "latest" games (unless i learn German fluently...so far I can only say "Ein beir, bitte"). So I can't comment on the new factions, only the originals.

I'd like to know if anyone has EVER had a game where Miriam or Yang wasn't a nuisance. Perhaps its my choices of factions (Uop, Gaians or the Peacekeepers) but those two are trouble. I tried one game as UoP a few months back to be Miriam's ally. it was early in the game when we met, and she was at war with the Gaians. Deidre had turned down a treaty from me so I figured I could give Miriam tech, be her buddy and let her wipe out the tree huggers. I also foolishly thought that by being cooperative with Miriam would make her like me a lot and thus not attack me.

Wrong Answer! Miriam turned on me so quick I didn't know what the hell happened. (I wouldn't give her Pre-Sentient algorithms because I was building hunter seeker) She sent several transports to my coast and used impact weapons (that I gave her the tech for) to destroy my formers and improvements. I also had to fight off several of her probe teams. To be honest she was more of an annoyance than I real threat and I teamed up with the Gaians after all to wipe her out. The AI miriam seems to have absolutely no scruples, common sense or honor. Ever.

Yang on the other hand is honorable in the fact that he you expect him to be a jack ass. He'll feign friendship ro get tech, but once he feels his power is suitable he'll attack. Thats why I never ever trade tech or give Yang anything. But he's still a worm. I read a post here once that said "if you're n the same continet with Yang his destruction is the first priority." True. But i've only had that happen once. I cornered Yang early in the game and pinned him on a peninsula. He only had room for three bases and no coastal access. Everytime he sent a colony pod out I told him to get out of my territory. Finally he got fed up and declared vendetta. Yeah, his puny synthmetal guys against my plasma impact guys. That was satisfactory. Has anyone ever been able to form an alliance with Yang that lasted?

Sorry for my rambling.

D4

Alinestra Covelia · June 17, 2000, 09:13

I know what you mean about the Believers, although their offensive bonus is worthless if you can convincingly put them on the defensive (should be reasonably easy vs the AI). As for Yang, I wouldn't know about his unscrupulous nature, because most times I'm playing as the Hive anyway.

And in those circumstances, the Hive are a very respectable faction!

Setting aside a few regrettable incidents with the Alien factions (who really ARE the scum of Planet wrt diplomatic trustworthiness and military problemcausing), I haven't gassed, nuked, betrayed, or been caught probing any of the other factions.

And if you can get your hands on an English version of SMAX, I thoroughly recommend it. Not only do you get 7 new factions to play with (3 of which are overbalanced and make very challenging enemies), but you also get new techs and unit types. (And you might be able to bypass the HSAlgorithm, too!)

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"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

Homepage http://www.enixine.dabsol.co.uk (Shared)

Bkeela · June 17, 2000, 11:02

The only faction who has 100% consistently been agressive towards me, is Miriam. I believe that the programming of Miriam was perverted to foster hatred towards Christians - a deliberate attempt by the Liberal MORONS who designed this game. Of course the tree hugging faction is the hero of Alpha Centauri. Anyway, I've written about this before, and I can't be bothered elaborating.

Bkeela.

Adam_Smith · June 17, 2000, 14:19

The only reason you guys can't get along with Miriam is because you won't use Fundy, or your rep is too bad. Other than that it's because you are either too big or you wont give her gifts. Yes, she does occasionally demand gifts, but as far as that goes Santiago is the worst. You have to keep paying her off for a long time (pobabably until you switch to Power).

Yang is the worst for me. The only way I will use Police State is if I am the Gaians or CC. Well, I will use it as Yang of course.

Anyway, if you don't want to run either Fundy or Police State you have to conquer them, and if you can't do that then you have other problems.

D4everman · June 17, 2000, 18:23

Bkeela, what about your posts before. I've never seen them so I can't make a judgement on them. Why do you feel that Miriam was "programmed" to foster hatred towards christians? Not to be too political about this, her aggressive attitude isn't too unrealistic. And remeber, every faction has its ugly side. Zak is unethical, Diedre cares more for trees than humans, Santiago is a "gun nut", Yang is a TOTAL bastard (commie!), Morgan a greedy bastard, and Lal is well, a wimp.

I wouldn't read too far into it. If you take offense at Miriam (enough to call the makers "morons") then your taking yourself a little to seriously.

D4

Alinestra Covelia · June 18, 2000, 10:11

I think Bkeela does have a point here - Deirdre isn't portrayed in any bad light at all. Even her tree hugging nature and tendencies toward exhibitionism are dampened down.

Meanwhile, Yang is portrayed as a communist dictatorial tyrant, whilst coincidentally being ethnic Chinese as well. In any case, it seems that his is one of the more powerful factions generally, so it's not a one-sided insult, but I thought Firaxis were sailing a bit close to the wind there.

Read the SMAC story. There, you'll see the more philosophical side to Miriam (especially in her debates with Zakharov). She comes out a much more reasonable character than in the game.

As for Yang, I find the opposite is true. In the story he is a very ill-developed character, with an inexplicable rise to power and unexplained special powers. In the game, however, his quotes are very profound and I find myself agreeing with him on many fronts.

D4everman · June 18, 2000, 16:31

Do you know where I can download the SMAC story? I'd like to read it.

I wasn't trying to be insulting to Bkeela. Its just that in my experience people take some things too seriously. Its only a game and while some aspects of it may be seen as "steroetyping" I don't think that the creators went out of their way to insult anyone. But thats only my opinion and feelings on the matter. I certainly respect yours and Bkeela's as valid.

D4

Adam_Smith · June 18, 2000, 17:53

Well, if you take these things personal (and that is hard not to do) than you are setting yourself up for an upseting experience. There are all different types of Christians. The Believers are just one type of made up Christians. They are fanatical, and we certainly can't say that some Christians have not been fanatical. I got a little bit upset when someone called Yang a communist, because he never occured to me that way. Maybe there are many different types of communists too, and Yang is a perverted kind. I suggest that you try not to take things so personal and enjoy the game.

Alinestra Covelia · June 19, 2000, 14:14

D4everman, go to http://www.alphacentauri.com and you can find all thirty-something issues of the story.

Personally, I thought it was a bit cursory, but in all fairness the team probably had more important things to do when it was being written. (Like programming the game.)

------------------
"In all creation, there can be no task more onerous or tedious than that of playing God." - Stephen Fry, 'The Liar'.

Homepage http://www.enixine.dabsol.co.uk (Shared)

Bkeela · June 20, 2000, 02:47

Nah, I'm not being very serious; I just like making reactionary statements when I'm bored. But being a Christian, it is suprising that I have never played as the Believers. Not so much because I dislike playing as a fundamentalist, but I can't stand the Believer base graphics (nor any of the SMACX ones by the way).
I have generally found that you can maintain peace with factions you are politically aligned with, unless your growth causes hostile factions to influence your allies to rebel.

Bkeela.

Kinjiru · June 20, 2000, 07:58

If it's really just the faction graphics holding you back from playing Miriam, why not just rename one of the faction graphic sets that you do like to act as the believer graphics?

Adam_Smith · June 20, 2000, 10:58

Bkeela,

The base art is a mountain fortess in Christian history that the Christians defended from (forgive me if I'm in correct) the Romans. The Romans couldn't take them so they just starved them.
[This message has been edited by Adam_Smith (edited June 20, 2000).]

Bkeela · June 21, 2000, 08:38

Actually Kinjiru, I did once swap the believers graphics with that of the pirates, but it just didn't feel right.

Bkeela.

Emperor10 · June 26, 2000, 02:09

Miriam is annoying. She always betrays me no matter how much technology I give her( for a person who supposely hates technology, she certainly isn't shy about asking for it) I usaully try to add insult to injury by renaming her capital 'New Jerusalem' into something totally offensive, disband the other cities and send the inhabitants to die a horrible death in some worm infested terrain, being a sadistic tyrant and all

As for Yang, he's always so agressive that I never trust him. I don't even bother renaming his cities or torturing his citizens. I just blast nice big holes in the area where they used to be.

Of course all of this is possible only after that silly United Nations Treaty is out of the way and if you're on good terms with planet( I suppose its still possible, but the effects of sanctions and disgruntled mother nature might ruin the fun)
[This message has been edited by Emperor10 (edited June 26, 2000).]

Transcend · June 27, 2000, 18:30

According to my experience, every faction except University and CC will declare vendetta upon you regardless of your reputation. Deirdre and Lal are just two jealous and backstabbing a$$holes. You can stay in democracy and green for the entire game, but if you are becoming powerful, they'll start plotting against you. Peace with Morgan is equally impossible unless you can tolerate his endless probe activities.
As for the other three remaining factions, I accept nothing but unconditional surrenders from them. Peace with Yang, Miriam, and Santiago should only serve as a temporary status until you can concentrate your forces.

D4everman, where do you live in Stuttgart, Patch Barracks or Kelly Barracks? I was born in Stuttgart.

Neptunus · June 28, 2000, 01:07

To Transcend : Great to see that just one more person (except AliCov) thinks Dee is the most horrible backstabber. Also Lal, of course, as he was the ONLY faction leader to blast one of my big bases with a PB (nobody dared to do that to me since then) after a Blood Truce. As for Morgan he has the record of the shortest periods of Pact Brotherhood. Just gain more energy than him and he renounces it. After that you just probe him to death and eliminate him (as he always builds too few bases). I totally agree with the third part about the three remaining factions but with a small difference : I enjoy getting Miriam and Yang fighting with each other first...

To Emperor10 : Why ? They both build many bases... Disband those few that are mispositioned and keep the rest (renamed of course). By the time I meet and fight with them I usually have as many bases as the two of them so they just double my empire...

To both : If you play with Miriam or Yang (I guess you've already done so) you'll see that although they are horrible as opponents they are a real PLEASURE playing as one of them...

D4everman · June 28, 2000, 02:56

Hi Transcend

I live on Patch Barracks! Glad to hear from someone who has been here!

I was feeling down about AAFES not stocking Alien crossfire so my wife suggested we try looking in a few local german stores on the idea they just might have the english version! No such luck! MediaMart didn't have it all, and Red Zac had a bunch of them...all German versions! (sigh)

I think the only way I'll get it is to order it online!

Did you live on the installations or on the economy?

D4

Sikander · July 1, 2000, 17:07

Hey Transcend,

I'm in Boulder too. I'm ex-Military (Army) and was stationed in Augsburg for a while in the mid-eighties. It's nice to see that there is someone else here who plays SMAC/X. Rock on (brother?).

D4,

Go get yourself a copy of SMAX online. with your APO address it shouldn't cost you any extra, and I think that you will like it. Some new factions, techs, and SPs (like the lovely Planetary Energy Grid which gives you an energy bank in every base, or the Cloudbase Academy which gives you an Aerospace complex in every base). I also like the new tech tree better.

Bearcat · July 2, 2000, 00:13

D4 there is an easy answer. Ask a German for the Computergeschäft. If you actually find one that sells games than ask

"Wo ist Sid Meier's: Alien Crossfire bitte?"

If that doesn't work just ask "Sprechen Sie Englisch?" Most Germans do

Than you can ask for it. That should do it.

BTW, I don't think I have ever played a game where Yang and Miriam were not royal pains.

Uh Adam_Smith that was the Jews. The Beiever base is a giant cathedral/church.

Chowlett · July 2, 2000, 08:15

I still can't find a copy of SMACX anywhere near me. Not that it matters - I spotted a copy in Belfast when I was over there a couple of weeks ago, and I ain't shelling out another £20 for an expansion pack just yet. BTW, I see SMAC's actually on a budget label now.
[This message has been edited by Chowlett (edited July 02, 2000).]