Poll: Is Georgias new "death warrant" on abortions a good idea? - Page 2

Shi Huangdi · December 9, 2002, 20:56

Georgia

Hopefully the delay this law causes with save some babies life before the Feds strike it down.

Vesayen · December 9, 2002, 20:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
The government should stay out of the issue of abortions. This is a private matter.

So stay out of spousal abuse, or insider trading, or heroin trafficking? Their all very private and can be handled without goverment help!

MichaeltheGreat · December 9, 2002, 20:57

Quote:

Originally posted by Vesayen

I would rather be an underprivleged and neglected child, then never have been born.....wouldnt you?

If you can form and express that intent as a ten week fetus, then yes, you should be born.

What you or I would prefer with respect to our own births at this point in our lives is one of the dumbest straw-men I've ever heard, but it's become a staple of the right to life people.

SlowwHand · December 9, 2002, 21:00

Get some responisbilty, and be accountable, MtG. What's so hard with the concept?

MichaeltheGreat · December 9, 2002, 21:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Vesayen

So stay out of spousal abuse, or insider trading, or heroin trafficking? Their all very private and can be handled without goverment help!

All of those involve two or more distinct, separately functioning, individuals. What happens inside a woman's uterus is not a public matter until the fetus reaches a point of development where it is effectively indistinguishable from a neonate infant.

David Floyd · December 9, 2002, 21:04

But yes, Vesayen, the government should stay out of heroin trafficking. I'm also not sure I see the problem with insider trading, provided no one is being defrauded or coerced or tricked into investing.

MichaeltheGreat · December 9, 2002, 21:05

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Get some responisbilty, and be accountable, MtG. What's so hard with the concept?

Nothing at all. Trouble is, they're not particularly material. If the state is going to start enforcing "responsibility" and "accountability" - then why don't we legislate a "responbility and accountability police" to tell people how they ought to be living their lives?

People ought to drink and smoke less, eat less cholesterol, work harder, save more, educate themselves, and a shitload of other things - is it the state's business to regulate your life there? Hell no.

Until the fetus reaches a certain stage of development, it ain't the state's business. Now if you want to take the position that the state shouldn't be funding abortion on demand, I have no problem with that.

MichaeltheGreat · December 9, 2002, 21:06

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
But yes, Vesayen, the government should stay out of heroin trafficking. I'm also not sure I see the problem with insider trading, provided no one is being defrauded or coerced or tricked into investing.

Insider trading is defrauding the marketplace by definition.

David Floyd · December 9, 2002, 21:07

Quote:

Insider trading is defrauding the marketplace by definition.

You probably know much more about the issue than I do. I'll take your word on it.

SlowwHand · December 9, 2002, 21:10

Just more examples of that good old "whatever makes it easier on me" mentality that David, Ned and others consistently expect.

Imran Siddiqui · December 9, 2002, 21:10

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph...

Quote:

Georgia legislators will introduce a bill early next month

Since when does INTRODUCING a bill mean it will become law? Every body has retarded bills introduced, it does not mean it will become law!

chequita guevara · December 9, 2002, 21:11

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd
You probably know much more about the issue than I do. I'll take your word on it.

David Floyd · December 9, 2002, 21:12

Quote:

Just more examples of that good old "whatever makes it easier on me" mentality that David, Ned and others consistently expect.

You're gonna have to be more specific, before I can shoot down whatever silly argument you're making today.

David Floyd · December 9, 2002, 21:12

che,

That's right, I don't know everything. Hard to believe, isn't it

MichaeltheGreat · December 9, 2002, 21:15

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

, yeah, I couldn't believe that one either.

Actually, I did beat indictment on it, so maybe that qualifies as expertise.

Six Thousand Year Old Man · December 9, 2002, 21:27

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Just more examples of that good old "whatever makes it easier on me" mentality that David, Ned and others consistently expect.

Who, me?

I can't speak for David and Ned, but I don't have a uterus.

It's not about making things easier. It's about forcing a woman to carry an unwanted baby.

edit: my italics

monkspider · December 9, 2002, 22:25

I agree that this is a horrible idea.

Ben Kenobi · December 10, 2002, 00:01

"All of those involve two or more distinct, separately functioning, individuals. What happens inside a woman's uterus is not a public matter until the fetus reaches a point of development where it is effectively indistinguishable from a neonate infant."

MtG

Agree with you wholeheartedly here. At what point does the fetus fail to resemble a neonate infant? Is there a specific age you would consider proper for abortions? Would you prevent abortions done after this point on the grounds that the fetus is an individual?

I disagree with the law as it is framed. It is a waste of time and money of the court of Georgia if every single abortion must go through the courts. A better way would be to settle the issue once, and then move on.

Dr Strangelove · December 10, 2002, 00:11

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

You can't miss what you never had. If we extend your argument, we do an injustice to all the children we never create. All those wasted sperm and eggs down the toilet an into tissues, when they could have been experiencing life as a human being?

Non-sentient tissue has no rights, and has no consciousness to be upset at the lack of a future.

Both sperm and ova are biologically programmed to self destruct if they don't undergo zygogenesis.

Capt Dizle · December 10, 2002, 00:28

I strongly oppose abortion but I believe this legislation is awful.

Is this a hoax?

Anyway, my feeling is that life should be protected from conception since if nature takes its course a baby is the result. There are some reasonable exceptions.

Now David should support me as the right to unfettered birth should be the supreme natural right.

After all we are not a lower species that eats its young.

But this is not an issue for in your face legislation anymore than slavery or desegregation. The proper course of action for anti-abortion proponents to take is to preach, not try to legislate their morality. Preach, debate, convince and win a consensus.
Then legislate with a mandate. Be inclusive, not divisive.

Promethus · December 10, 2002, 01:12

We decided the other end of this issue some years ago. i.e. you are "Dead" when your brain stops working (there is no there there) so until the "unborn" has brain funchion it is not "alive".

It has to work both ways or not at all.

Capt Dizle · December 10, 2002, 01:22

Incorrect. A brain dead person, if not interfered with, does not heal. Allowing nature to take its course is the correct path. It doesn't work both ways, it is a one way street. First we are born and then we die. Exit stage right ----------------->

Why are we debating this? I can assure you it was all worked out a long, long time ago.

Promethus · December 10, 2002, 01:37

JT

This non brain funchioning cell mass is not self supporting any more than a brain dead person. The only difference is one is supported by a machines and the other by a female host.

Capt Dizle · December 10, 2002, 01:48

Female host? Do you talk like that in real life? Were you hatched or something?

Just kidding. Seriously, you are falling all about yourself trying to make this a more complicated question than it is. We are human beings. Its not a female host. Its a mother.

If your benchmark is a baby's ability to be self supporting you are only a heartbeat away from Hitler's Germany where not only Jews, but the handicapped were exterminated.

Self supporting. My son is almost 18 and I can assure you he is still not capable of supporting himself.

Nonsense.

orange · December 10, 2002, 02:28

stooooooooooopid

Promethus · December 10, 2002, 02:53

Orange - are you talking about me?

JT - You miss the point. She is only a "Mother" if she gives birth to a "Child". If she aborts before there is brain activevity there is no "Life" there.

Rufus T. Firefly · December 10, 2002, 03:10

Quick show of hands: how many people think that this will actually stop abortions in Georgia, rather than simply driving them underground? Anybody? Anybody?

Quick show of hands: how many people think that middle- and upper-middle-class Georgians will actually apply for warrants, rather than just travel to another state to abort? Anybody? Anybody?

(Anybody who's hand has been up so far is directed to read Leslie Reagan's When Abortion was a Crime: Women, Medicine, and Law in the United States, 1867-1973, and summarize it for our next session.)

So run it past me again: how is this law about anything other than punishing the poor?

Rank idiocy -- not that I'd expect anything less from a Southern legislature.

Rufus T. Firefly · December 10, 2002, 03:16

Also, whenever the "right to life" is granted to a fetus, I like to remember the first lawsuit that resulted from Missouri's mid-80's statute (latter struck down) declaring the fetus a person: a request for a writ of habeas corpus, filed on behalf of the fetus of a pregnant prisoner.

Ned · December 10, 2002, 03:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Vesayen

So stay out of spousal abuse, or insider trading, or heroin trafficking? Their all very private and can be handled without goverment help!

In the words of Spock: Illogical.

Imran Siddiqui · December 10, 2002, 05:12

Quote:

Quick show of hands: how many people think that this will actually stop abortions in Georgia, rather than simply driving them underground? Anybody? Anybody?

Quick show of hands: How many think this will pass? Anybody? Oh wait... the people here on Poly that CAN'T READ!

Like I said before this is so FAR from becoming law it is crazy. It is like wackos who submit bills in Congress for a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion. They introduced it, but if you think it will be law, you are smoking something.